Oscar Pistorius

[KZNSeagull]

Another interesting morning. Nel is essentially showing that Oscar is someone who does not take responsibility for anything and his relationship with Reeva was all about his needs. He is doing this in 2 ways:

The Tasha incident when a gun went off in a crowded restaurant. Oscar says he was handled the gun when it went off, did not check to take the magazine out, accepts that according to unchallenged evidence in court, it is impossible for that gun to go off without pulling the trigger, yet he refuses to accept that he pulled the trigger! Nel described the firing of this gun as "a miracle".

They also went though the 2 messages from Reeva where she says that she is scared off him and obviously pissed off with him for his actions and public tantrums. Oscar says some of what is in those messages were not true. When he says this, Nel reminds him that he shot her so we cannot challenge what he says is true or not. But the point of all this was to show to the court that this relationship was all about him and his needs and that he was not particularly bothered about Reeva's feelings, as there is not much in his replies that shows that he cares about what he thinks. For example, he apologises for what happens, but then blames her for what happened anyway and she was not fitting in with what he wanted to do.

There was also a bit where Reeva complained to Oscar about a song playing in a car on the way home from a function where they had had an argument in the car park - Nel suddenly realised that what she meant by something in her mail was referring to the title of this song "Bitch, Don't Kill my Vibe" by Kendrick Lamar! So Nel is saying that Oscar and his mate put that song on deliberately, to publically demean and humiliate her. Oscar has already said that he did have tantrums in public, but always plays down how public those tantrums were. She felt humiliated by him in public, as described in her messages, and Nel is essentially saying that he was not bothered about that.

At the start of play he asked why Oscar had only apologised in court and not before to the Steemkamps. Again, Nel read out the apology and at no point does Oscar say sorry for shooting their daughter - he apologises for their pain and suffering, but not for actually shooting her. Again, he is not taking responsibility.
[MENTION=3969]Billy the Fish[/MENTION] - we can see clearer now why they were going on about what was an accident. It is another example of Oscar not taking responsibility. He was holding the gun but firing it 4 times was an accident. They will come back to this I am sure later on, as it is crucial.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I think that only Reeva and Oscar will ever know the truth of what actually happened. Even if Oscar tells the truth half the world won't believe him anyway.

I agree totally that whatever way you look at it he shot another human through a door without knowing who was on the other side, he's going down for murder and thoroughly deserves to as well. I think I'm just a bit more willing to give him the benefit of doubt that he thought it was a burgler on the other side and not his bird, purely because you can't prove either way. They don't even seem to be focussing on that in court though, it's all smoke and mirrors about what constitutes an accident

What they're focussing on in court is not smoke and mirrors, its unpicking OP's version of events down to the minute detail. All they need to do is prove what OP is saying happened didn't actually happen through highlighting the inconsistencies. Every tiny error in his story, whether there were 2 fans, the fact 2 can't be plugged in at the same time etc. will add up to his story falling apart. If they achieve that they do not need to prove another version of events, only that his version is not the truth. If his version is not considered the truth, then the facts of the case are that he shot his girlfriend, and he's lied to cover up what happened. His only reason for lying would be to hide his guilt.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Don't worry about that, I'm like the love child of Poirot and Miss Marple! .......or possibly not, this is a bit like trying to prove to you and vegster that England are good at cricket!

Ok how about this: She woke up and had a pi$$ and the flush is what woke Oscar in the first place. She is half way out of the door at the exact moment he shouts about the burglers so shuts it and locks it, the other points still stand. Does that work? Or has he already scuppered that with his statement?

He would have already been awake as he said he heard the noise while bringing the fans in (in his statement it's 1 fan from out on the balcony, but that's seemingly changed to 2 fans, one of which was already inside, the other only half on the balcony, but neither could be plugged into the extension cord at the same time as there was only 1 spare socket...). So if that was the truth OP is lying about it for some reason.

 

[Bold Seagull]

OP's credibility is taking a real hammering today. Can remember some things, but not others. Attempted to discredit 2 witnesses (those saying he shot out of the sun roof) as saying they had colluded and lying (his counsel hadn't said this in cross examination of them) when asked how he knew this he said he'd been told, but couldn't remember by who. Those 2 witness accounts of the sunroof incident were different - to which Nel points out that it is hardly colluding to fabricate a story if you end up with 2 different versions.

Nel takes an approach of going through a background incident like the shooting out the sunroof, then bang straight back to what happened by the bathroom door. OP suddenly remembers he fired the shots in quick succession, not as 'double taps' but still says firing the gun was an accident - he didn't intend to shoot, he is saying it happened out of fear. Roux hasn't said a word from what I've seen, and it was Roux who when cross examining the police expert that OP had double tapped.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Lunch now. They have gone through the other charges of the illegal ammunition. Oscar at times was arguing with Nel over what is and what isn't illegal! It is obvious from what Nel has said regarding the illegal ammunition and the fact that Barry Roux did not intervene, that Oscar broke the law, but Oscar is flatly refusing to accept that.

4 or 5 times now Oscar has been adamant that testimony by several people is wrong, even when Barry Roux did NOT challenge that testimony in court. Nel says that Roux did not challenge it because he could not do see as you cannot challenge facts. Nel says that even Oscar is blaming his legal team for his failure to accept responsibility for things.

He is refusing to concede obvious points. His testimony is confused and at times, totally illogical.

Nel is jumping about between events very cleverly as he suddenly went back to the "accidental" business from last night, 15 minutes before lunch. Oscar has said that he remembers firing the gun and then said that he was getting very confused about what accidentally means! But Oscar has said several times that he pulled the trigger and fired the gun at the door.

The lawyer in the studio when asked to sum up the morning said "problems. problems, problems". He reckons that his refusal to admit the obvious on several occasions is going to go down very badly with the court. It is a slow but steady unravelling of Oscar's character. Very clever and fascinating.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Lunch now. They have gone through the other charges of the illegal ammunition. Oscar at times was arguing with Nel over what is and what isn't illegal! It is obvious from what Nel has said regarding the illegal ammunition and the fact that Barry Roux did not intervene, that Oscar broke the law, but Oscar is flatly refusing to accept that.

4 or 5 times now Oscar has been adamant that testimony by several people is wrong, even when Barry Roux did NOT challenge that testimony in court. Nel says that Roux did not challenge it because he could not do see as you cannot challenge facts. Nel says that even Oscar is blaming his legal team for his failure to accept responsibility for things.

He is refusing to concede obvious points. His testimony is confused and at times, totally illogical.

Nel is jumping about between events very cleverly as he suddenly went back to the "accidental" business from last night, 15 minutes before lunch. Oscar has said that he remembers firing the gun and then said that he was getting very confused about what accidentally means! But Oscar has said several times that he pulled the trigger and fired the gun at the door.

The lawyer in the studio when asked to sum up the morning said "problems. problems, problems". He reckons that his refusal to admit the obvious on several occasions is going to go down very badly with the court. It is a slow but steady unravelling of Oscar's character. Very clever and fascinating.

I get the impression he's going at this alone now and against any advice he's received. The whole firing the gun thing at the door is bizarre, OP accepts he was holding the gun, that he fired 4 consecutive shots, but that it was an accident and he wasn't aiming at the door, he only knew the gun was aiming at the door because he saw the bullet holes.

We're seeing a background of a man that understood guns, practiced regularly with them, and was mentally prepared to defend himself as he always carried his gun with a round in the chamber. His defence is of a person afraid of their own shadow who had never handled a gun or never thought they'd be in that position. It doesn't stack up with someone who took self defence so seriously, and was vigilant to an almost paranoid level.

 

[KZNSeagull]

I get the impression he's going at this alone now and against any advice he's received. The whole firing the gun thing at the door is bizarre, OP accepts he was holding the gun, that he fired 4 consecutive shots, but that it was an accident and he wasn't aiming at the door, he only knew the gun was aiming at the door because he saw the bullet holes.

I know- Nel is quite right. Everything is someone else fault, never Oscar's. Even when presented with the fact that the gun that went off in the restaurant cannot go off without the trigger being pulled (which Roux did not contest), Oscar refuses to accept that he MUST have pulled the trigger, as he was holding the gun and no-one else could have done it. So it was the gun's fault, not his.

Someone told him that Fresco and Sam Taylor colluded to fabricate their evidence, but he cannot remember who!
Everyone says it is illegal to have ammunition in your safe for a gun that you do not hold a licence for and that it is illegal for him to hold his father's ammunition in his safe. Oscar says it isn't illegal and apparently Roux said it was not illegal! Nel knows that Roux would not tell him that, but still Oscar refuses to accept that what he did with that ammunition was illegal.

He is unravelling. They were going on this morning before the start of proceedings that Oscar arrived at court in a car and not via his lawyers offices. They seemed to forget that he is not allowed any contact with his lawyers during cross examination. He is desperate to not say anything incriminating, but his refusal to accept obvious facts is also incriminating as he is just being shown to be a liar. And a nutter.

 

[KZNSeagull]

We're seeing a background of a man that understood guns, practiced regularly with them, and was mentally prepared to defend himself as he always carried his gun with a round in the chamber. His defence is of a person afraid of their own shadow who had never handled a gun or never thought they'd be in that position. It doesn't stack up with someone who took self defence so seriously, and was vigilant to an almost paranoid level.

Exactly! If he is so twitchy as made out and therefore fires at strange noises in his house, his house would be riddled with bullet holes!

Interesting that the Steenkamp's, who usually sit impassively in court, were seen on several occassions to be sighing and shaking their heads at the things Oscar was saying. His Mum disappeared when Nel suddenly went back to the shooting in the bathroom - I hope she is alright.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I know- Nel is quite right. Everything is someone else fault, never Oscar's. Even when presented with the fact that the gun that went off in the restaurant cannot go off without the trigger being pulled (which Roux did not contest), Oscar refuses to accept that he MUST have pulled the trigger, as he was holding the gun and no-one else could have done it. So it was the gun's fault, not his.

Someone told him that Fresco and Sam Taylor colluded to fabricate their evidence, but he cannot remember who!
Everyone says it is illegal to have ammunition in your safe for a gun that you do not hold a licence for and that it is illegal for him to hold his father's ammunition in his safe. Oscar says it isn't illegal and apparently Roux said it was not illegal! Nel knows that Roux would not tell him that, but still Oscar refuses to accept that what he did with that ammunition was illegal.

He is unravelling. They were going on this morning before the start of proceedings that Oscar arrived at court in a car and not via his lawyers offices. They seemed to forget that he is not allowed any contact with his lawyers during cross examination. He is desperate to not say anything incriminating, but his refusal to accept obvious facts is also incriminating as he is just being shown to be a liar. And a nutter.

I must admit I'm finding the cross examination compelling at this point. I'm trying to work out if there is a clever tactic behind all this avoidance, but keep coming back to OP's case being pretty much built on the court believing his version of events. How is that going to happen if he won't answer straight questions with straight answers? I don't think Nel has been at all fierce yet, he's been pretty gentle most of the time, I think he appears delighted with the way OP is seemingly tying himself up in knots over points he doesn't really need to from what I can see.

I think the point about not taking responsibility is perhaps something that Nel didn't necessarily plan for, but is a thread that is now growing and growing through each line of questioning.

Completely out of context for this case, but perhaps reflective of OP's character, I was remembering when he lost one of the races at London2012, and in the post race interview came across as one of the most ungracious bitter sportsmen having just lost, putting the defeat down to this new young athlete having longer blades and effectively cheating to beat him. It really stuck out for me at the time as a terrible thing for a fellow athlete to say. This isn't to say I then imagined him going off and murdering someone though, just that in light of his inability to take responsibility for anything.

 

[Insel affe]

Is he yet

 

[KZNSeagull]

I must admit I'm finding the cross examination compelling at this point. I'm trying to work out if there is a clever tactic behind all this avoidance, but keep coming back to OP's case being pretty much built on the court believing his version of events. How is that going to happen if he won't answer straight questions with straight answers? I don't think Nel has been at all fierce yet, he's been pretty gentle most of the time, I think he appears delighted with the way OP is seemingly tying himself up in knots over points he doesn't really need to from what I can see.

I think the point about not taking responsibility is perhaps something that Nel didn't necessarily plan for, but is a thread that is now growing and growing through each line of questioning.

Completely out of context for this case, but perhaps reflective of OP's character, I was remembering when he lost one of the races at London2012, and in the post race interview came across as one of the most ungracious bitter sportsmen having just lost, putting the defeat down to this new young athlete having longer blades and effectively cheating to beat him. It really stuck out for me at the time as a terrible thing for a fellow athlete to say. This isn't to say I then imagined him going off and murdering someone though, just that in light of his inability to take responsibility for anything.

I agree, it is compelling.

This is an interesting read: http://www.biznews.com/oscar-pistorius-performance-may-prove-mental-state/

 

[KZNSeagull]

Is he yet

A bit today, but not too much. Nel is very cleverly leaving the evidence when he knows he will blub to very close to the pre-arranged breaks in proceedings.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Oscar is someone who does not take responsibility for anything

Gah! Just like the previous manager then!

 

[SK1NT]

I must admit I'm finding the cross examination compelling at this point. I'm trying to work out if there is a clever tactic behind all this avoidance, but keep coming back to OP's case being pretty much built on the court believing his version of events. How is that going to happen if he won't answer straight questions with straight answers? I don't think Nel has been at all fierce yet, he's been pretty gentle most of the time, I think he appears delighted with the way OP is seemingly tying himself up in knots over points he doesn't really need to from what I can see.

I think the point about not taking responsibility is perhaps something that Nel didn't necessarily plan for, but is a thread that is now growing and growing through each line of questioning.

Completely out of context for this case, but perhaps reflective of OP's character, I was remembering when he lost one of the races at London2012, and in the post race interview came across as one of the most ungracious bitter sportsmen having just lost, putting the defeat down to this new young athlete having longer blades and effectively cheating to beat him. It really stuck out for me at the time as a terrible thing for a fellow athlete to say. This isn't to say I then imagined him going off and murdering someone though, just that in light of his inability to take responsibility for anything.

I remember thinking just this... that outbreak was aggressive, arrogant, pathetic. Something like that I don't think I have ever seen. This made me change my whole opinion of him.

The fact he was complaining about the winners prosthetics when he was the one that was rightly to be accused years before.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Oscar says he woke up and spoke to Reeva and she replied "Can't you sleep, Baba?". That's when he got up to bring the fans in.


I have not heard that he spoke to her before. He says she must have got up whilst he was sorting the fans out and closing the balcony door and curtains, but he did not see or hear her do this.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I get the impression he's going at this alone now and against any advice he's received. The whole firing the gun thing at the door is bizarre, OP accepts he was holding the gun, that he fired 4 consecutive shots, but that it was an accident and he wasn't aiming at the door, he only knew the gun was aiming at the door because he saw the bullet holes.

That's worse than my effort! He's got no chance, somebody pass the black cap........

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I suppose it is just about possible that OP woke up a bit disorientated in the middle of the night (3am) and wasn't thinking 100% straight? Though most of us wouldn't automatically reach for a gun and start blasting through a locked door, has to be said.

 

[Insel affe]

Guilty as sin...

The bit I do not understand how can anyone hear or think someone is breaking into your property that you and loved ones are living in...... Not check your loved ones are ok or where they are at least....

Never mind not notice them when getting out of bed..... Come on if she did get out of bed the covers would have been either thrown back or askew..... you would notice then your first reaction would be to shout out are you ok, this is also a good way of letting the supposed burglar you are alert to the situation, thus giving him to time to get out of the property without the need for confrontation..... none of it adds up... He is cold hearted egotistical killer......

 

[Bold Seagull]

It's really unravelling now. This has been a significant afternoon. OP's version is just so unbelievable at this point.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Guilty as sin...

The bit I do not understand how can anyone hear or think someone is breaking into your property that you and loved ones are living in...... Not check your loved ones are ok or where they are at least....

Never mind not notice them when getting out of bed..... Come on if she did get out of bed the covers would have been either thrown back or askew..... you would notice then your first reaction would be to shout out are you ok, this is also a good way of letting the supposed burglar you are alert to the situation, thus giving him to time to get out of the property without the need for confrontation..... none of it adds up... He is cold hearted egotistical killer......

Nel is going through this piece by piece, inconsistency by inconsistency. OP's case is now relying on a significant disturbance of the crime scene by police or the photographer, supposedly moving things for no apparent reason as they'd have no knowledge of what his defence is at that point.

But you're right, how would he walk past the foot of the bed toward potential danger without waking his partner or warning them of the threat. It just makes no sense to share a room with someone, hear noises in the toilet and instead of thinking the most obvious thing - it's your partner, you unload four bullets into the room without shouting any warning or waiting for a response.

Nel is now going into the version he believes to have happened, they argued, she screamed, this was heard from the balcony by witnesses, she ran and locked herself in the bathroom, in a rage he grabbed his gun and shot through the door.