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Oscar Pistorius allegedly kills his girlfriend - reports



KZNSeagull

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
21,098
Wolsingham, County Durham
Prosecution summing up and fighting back:


_Nel if the court accepts his version, what remains? I didn't plan to kill Reeva, but I planned to kill that intruder.
Nel wonders if "I'm Oscar Pistorius, I'm a world renowned athlete, that in itself is special," is an argument for exceptional circumstances
Questions why would Reeva's cellphone be on the mat outside the toilet? Did she take her phone to the loo with her and then left it outside? Odd
Also wants to know the importance of the memory stick - if Pistorius cannot access that account, why is it so important.
Nel focusing on statement in affidavit 'should there be a trial against me'. Under illusion there may not be a trial.
Nel: This applicant tells the court, this is not serious. I have done nothing wrong. I don't think I will be charged - that's concerning
He shows total lack of realisation of what he's done. he wants to continue with his life as if nothing happened
Says he needs his passport to compete internationally. Always leaves it open. He never said 'I'm not going anywhere, I wont compete'
This total lack of insight and willingness to take responsibility for his deeds increases his flight risk." He doesn't accept crime.
Roux said he's an international athlete, why would he run - same athlete says "I'll break your legs."
Magistrate: Are you aware of murder cases that have been downgraded from premeditated murder? Nel: Yes, did one before you.
refers to countrywide attempt includ Pres Zuma speeches to clamp down on violence against women
For dramatic effect, he says there have been death threats against him. We don't have any of those case dockets (police complaints)
Nel moves onto process and the issue that defence only gave a statement and did not take the stand himself.
I can give you a affidavit full of lies. The issue with affidavit is that it is untested. No one can test it.
We argue the love being described by the witnesses wasn't from the night of the incident."
he got up in night and walked past her two times and didn't notice she wasn't there? (sd with incredulity)
How did he not see her when he walked past the bed. The holster on the left side of the bed explains everything.
he fetched his firearm from the side Reeva sleeps, he didn't rouse here, ask her she heard something?
'You want to protect her but you don't even look at her?'
There are two people in the house and you hear a noise. Do you immediately assume it's a burglar and not the person next to you?"
The love said to exist in relationship clearly not evident on night of murder as he stormed to the bathroom.
His version is so improbable... Not even in his own version was there any imminent danger in the bedroom whatsoever."
its an improbable version which cannot be tested. He was keen to arm himself and get to intruder
His actions are indicative of a man who was ready and willing to fire to kill. He stormed the danger.
this vulnerable person stormed the danger without his prosthesis.
 




KZNSeagull

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
21,098
Wolsingham, County Durham
Nel cites precedent that the accused "must prove on the balance of probability that he will be acquitted".
The applicant's actions of firing without any indication of a threat are totally improbable."
el goes for Pistorius version that he felt 'threatened' saying his behaviour was not indicative of this.
Why did he shoot? Did he want to kill the intruder, not Reeva? Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.
If I fire through a door, 1.4 x 1.4, did he do it to hurt? He must, he must, have fired to kill.
even on his own version he fired to kill a burglar
is version can only be that he wanted to kill the person in the cubicle, that's why he fired.
he fired four shots, not one. You only fire four if you want to kill
At v least there'll be culpable homicide by his own admission.
on his own version it's dolus eventualis. We say dolus directus - it was planned.
re witnesses talking of hearing screaming. Are we saying independent people lie?
or are we saying witnesses heard others having an argument by coincidence at the same time?
the witness statements we have are taken under oath.
It is not disputed that he discharged a firearm in a public place." It's what he did to avoid the blame.
(Re shooting in restaurant) This is the type of person we're dealing with (ie someone who gets other to take blame)
there's one person who knows every detail of what happened that night - he has the onus.
the threats to Mark Bachelor and at Kyalami went unchallenged - because it's true
Defence say row with soccer player was never taken seriously (where he threatened to break his legs)
Roux argued its young-people speak, but here we have threats and a dead woman.
He is prone to violence. What else is threats and murder?" One person in court can give us account but he elected for affidavit.
he elected to give a statement, but we can't test it, ask him questions.
Roix says why would international athlete flee - I ask why would int athlete handle a firearm in public.


And that's stumps. :rolleyes:
 


simmo

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2008
2,787
Why are you saying (sarcastically) the defence will accept that? I was just agreeing with you that they need to have got all the evidence from Reeva before she was cremated.

What I was saying is that already Botha has been proved incorrect in what he says in what is the police/prosecutions opening gambit about what actually happened....already he has got it wrong about testosterone being in OP's house. This is in the prelims! Nothing he therefore says (or has said already) is credible...well as will be argued by the decent defence lawyer that OP is going to have.

In this case I think forensics will prove or disprove OP story that is why it is so important. In your earlier post you didn't really think Botha's contamination of the scene seem to matter. Yet to me I think the outcome is probably the difference between a served jail time of a 3 to 5 year stretch and a 25 to life stretch if the case was in the UK, but who knows in SA.

It is amazing, sometimes what forensics can tell by footprints, I have seen quite a few TV programs about UK forensics where they say that due to these footprints and how they are distributed around the room/scene x happened. As an example, there could have been say numerous imprints (many times not visible to the naked eye) of OP's prostethics by the toilet door each with the toes pointing to the door in a position which is consistent with someone in a shooting position (eg feet parallel), but not consistent with normal every day movements, I mean who stands front on looking at a toilet door for a period of time?

This is what Botha could have potentially ruined (and made inadmissable) with his size 10's and the fact that he may have contaminated this scene.
 




mejonaNO12 aka riskit

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2003
21,927
England
I realise it's only a bail hearing, but SURELY the defence will feel this has gone VERY well in terms of casting doubt over the prosecution?

Or am I reading far too much into this?
 












Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
53,193
Goldstone
In your earlier post you didn't really think Botha's contamination of the scene seem to matter. Yet to me I think the outcome is probably the difference between a served jail time of a 3 to 5 year stretch and a 25 to life stretch...As an example, there could have been say numerous imprints (many times not visible to the naked eye) of OP's prostethics by the toilet door each with the toes pointing to the door in a position which is consistent with someone in a shooting position
Yes, that's a fair point. Hopefully the policeman's footprints won't have effected that though. His prints shouldn't remove prints that we


What I was saying is that already Botha has been proved incorrect in what he says in what is the police/prosecutions opening gambit about what actually happened....already he has got it wrong about testosterone being in OP's house. This is in the prelims! Nothing he therefore says (or has said already) is credible...well as will be argued by the decent defence lawyer that OP is going to have.
So? I didn't disagree with a word of that. I simply agreed that Reeva's body shouldn't be cremated before all forensic evidence was taken.

- - - Updated - - -

In your earlier post you didn't really think Botha's contamination of the scene seem to matter. Yet to me I think the outcome is probably the difference between a served jail time of a 3 to 5 year stretch and a 25 to life stretch...As an example, there could have been say numerous imprints (many times not visible to the naked eye) of OP's prostethics by the toilet door each with the toes pointing to the door in a position which is consistent with someone in a shooting position
Yes, that's a fair point. Hopefully the policeman's footprints won't have effected that though. His prints shouldn't remove prints that we


What I was saying is that already Botha has been proved incorrect in what he says in what is the police/prosecutions opening gambit about what actually happened....already he has got it wrong about testosterone being in OP's house. This is in the prelims! Nothing he therefore says (or has said already) is credible...well as will be argued by the decent defence lawyer that OP is going to have.
So? I didn't disagree with a word of that. I simply agreed that Reeva's body shouldn't be cremated before all forensic evidence was taken.
 


simmo

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2008
2,787
Possibly. No forensic, phone or other witness evidence yet though. And this whole didn't notice she was not in bed story is a bit weak/odd.

I agree. At the moment neither version of events looks totally believable to me.
 


KZNSeagull

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
21,098
Wolsingham, County Durham
Prosecutor has finished summing up - nothing new, just emphasising that he cannot question OP about his affidavit, so have to take it with a pinch of salt.
Apparently defence are going to have another go! Hopefully decision will be made today.

Re Inspector Clouseau, apparently the National Prosecuting Authority did NOT inform the police that Botha's charges had been reinstated until a few days ago. All rather odd, but incompetence is rather accepted nowadays.
 








KZNSeagull

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
21,098
Wolsingham, County Durham
Magistrate has been giving ruling for over an hour. He is going back through all the evidence, presumably to cover his arse if there is an appeal.

He has confirmed that case is still a schedule 6
 




simmo

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2008
2,787
Magistrate has been giving ruling for over an hour. He is going back through all the evidence, presumably to cover his arse if there is an appeal.

He has confirmed that case is still a schedule 6

He refers to a trial judge. Is there going to be a different judge for the trial proper?
 


Benson

Member
Jan 31, 2012
685
near water
listening on 5live, and the judge is covering his arse big style as you said KZN!

It's going the prosecution's way at the mo i think.
 












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