Oscar Pistorius allegedly kills his girlfriend - reports

[Johnny Crumplin Football]

Looks like Roux is owning Botha at the moment. Am reading the live Guardian updates. Gripping stuff

 

[simmo]

The magistrate has had a go at defence council for laying into the Officer too much - they have only had 4 days to get some info together. But yes, the cop does sound like a bit of an arse so far!

Has been hot - quite normal to have doors and windows open and fans going this time of year. And the sound of an argument and gunshots would carry at that time of night if door open.

What I have thought quite staggering and worrying (in respect of getting the correct outcome) is that Reeva's body has been handed over to her family already for burial.

I am pretty sure that in the UK it takes weeks for bodies in similar cases to be handed over (for burial), yet in this case Reeva dies on the 14th and was buried on the 19th. I hope that all the correct foresnics have been done before the body was handed over. One of the key answers to innocence or guilt is angle of bullet wounds on her body. OP says he had no legs on, Prosecution said he did, this would show in the bullets and how they entered her body (you would think upwards if OP telling the truth, downwards if lying).

I hope this will come out in the case and not be botched, so that we get the truth and it concerns me already about how the police couldn't even be bothered to look at the label on the bottle of "steriods". It would seem that the police have already made their minds up.

 

[Bold Seagull]

[tweet]304185537256906752[/tweet]

 

[Johnny Crumplin Football]

That is a very good point. Is it just me or does anyone else get the impression that the old bill are purposely being incompetent and may in fact be on OP's side. Seems a bit odd

 

[KZNSeagull]

What I have thought quite staggering and worrying (in respect of getting the correct outcome) is that Reeva's body has been handed over to her family already for burial.

I am pretty sure that in the UK it takes weeks for bodies in similar cases to be handed over (for burial), yet in this case Reeva dies on the 14th and was buried on the 19th. I hope that all the correct foresnics have been done before the body was handed over. One of the key answers to innocence or guilt is angle of bullet wounds on her body. OP says he had no legs on, Prosecution said he did, this would show in the bullets and how they entered her body (you would think upwards if OP telling the truth, downwards if lying).

I hope this will come out in the case and not be botched, so that we get the truth and it concerns me already about how the police couldn't even be bothered to look at the label on the bottle of "steriods". It would seem that the police have already made their minds up.

I agree. She has been cremated, not buried. Crux of the case is that the state has to show he meant to do it, I suppose. He definitely meant to shoot whoever was behind the door, that much we know. I have no idea how they are going to prove that one way or the other. Defence council is getting very picky now - this is a bail application now, not the trial:

Investigating Officer Hilton Botha is still under cross examination. Adv Barry Roux casting doubt on his version.
Roux: Do you stand by everything you said in cross examination? Botha: I do.
Botha confirms he told several family members and Oldwage that he believed that bail should not be opposed.
Magistrate checks with Botha that he heard the question correctly. Botha: Yes. I did tell the attorney that in the morning.
Botha: Ballistics hasn't told me anything. Forensics hasn't told me. I'm standing here without expert evidence.
Botha on .38 ammunition: "It was wrongly handed over to the lawyer." Roux: "It was handed to the lawyer."
Botha pushed about the ammunition and whether he knew about it. Roux: Did they not take photographs of the ammunition?
Roux: You were the investigating officer. You were there. I have difficulty with some of your answers.
Roux after handing over ammunition to lawyer - the next day we are requested to bring it back. We did so.
Roux: Did you take any steps to contact us to ask about the ammunition? Botha: No Roux: It was the father's ammunition.
Roux: You don't have any facts that before the shooting he attached his prostheses. Botha: I don't have any facts.
Roux: Our forensics expert went through the toilet carefully on the afternoon of the shooting when we got access.
Roux: A spent bullet cartridge was found in the toilet bowl that wasn't discovered by your officers. Botha: Yes.
Botha concedes there is no substance to his claims about the distance and trajectory of the shots - no forensics yet.
Botha: We've got nothing to show that anyone phoned from the handsets that we have.
Police IO Botha seems to be getting tied up in knots. He is hesitant and stuttering now under questioning
Roux: I put to you there was no screaming. Botha: The statement says there was screaming. (OP's lip begins quivering).
lawyer: the screaming was infact from Oscar, not from a woman
police say neighbors across the road heard screaming at Pistorius house. Another heard the same, from the house behind
Botha: The distance is not exact. I wanted to do so by air photos and plotting measurements but not done yet.
**** Apparently OP has stopped crying ****
Magistrate: Would you say that house was 20 times the distance from this wall to that wall? Botha: About from here to lift.
Magistrate: You are in possession of two statements from two different witnesses about the screaming? Botha: Yes.
Roux: You may not have seen the accused had medical patch on shoulder as he had a problem with shoulder. Botha: No I didn't.
Roux - Pistorius sleeps on the right-hand side of the bed, if you're facing it.
He slept on the left side that evening because of the shoulder problem. He usually sleeps on the right side.
Reeva also spent the previous night there. She usually sleeps on the other side and did the previous night.
Roux moves onto the house in Italy and the offshore accounts: Let's cut it short. There is no house in Italy.
hen Oldwage collected the memory stick, did he not disclose anything to you? No
That account is not the account of applicant and he can't draw money from it. Botha: Could be possible.
Roux: There is however an account that he forgot about in Brunswick, Carolina. A dormant account set up in 2002.
Roux focuses on the shooting at Tasha's Melrose Arch. Roux: Do you have evidence that he fired the shot?
Botha: I don't have evidence that he fired the shot - I have witness statements.
Roux suggests the shot went off when gun was passed to him. Adv Nel jumps up to object. Magistrate tells Roux to be patient.

Off to get the kids now!!

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That is a very good point. Is is just me or does anyone else get the impression that the old bill and purposely being incompetent and may in fact be on OP's side. Seems a bit odd

Only odd is that they have only had 4/5 days to get evidence together. Evidence is not definitive at the moment

 

[simmo]

That is a very good point. Is is just me or does anyone else get the impression that the old bill and purposely being incompetent and may in fact be on OP's side. Seems a bit odd

Reading the Guardians tweets too...just read this, jeez! Forensics is gonna make or break this case


Roux (defence) says that when Botha (police) was in Pistorius's house he was walking around without protective shoes on. Botha says that's right, but it was not deliberate.

Roux (defence) suggests that Botha (police) contaminated the scene.

Botha: I went out and there were no more feet covers left.

 

[Buzzer]

Whenever I think of Oscar wandering around without his prosthetic legs I can't help but imagine him as Inspector Clouseau dressed as Toulouse Lautrec. Missed opportunity there, methinks. The defence could argue that the death was a result of an improbable but hilarious piece of slapstick.

 

[Johnny Crumplin Football]

Excuse my ignorance but what would happen if this really turned out to be Oscar letting rip with a volley of bullets because he thought a burglar had entered his house and it was in fact all a tragic accident. Just curious like

 

[simmo]

I agree. She has been cremated, not buried. Crux of the case is that the state has to show he meant to do it, I suppose. He definitely meant to shoot whoever was behind the door, that much we know.

One thing that really has come out in OP's favour to me in this bail hearing only! Is that forensics showed (and I think even the cop admitted) that Reeva had an empty bladder.

This totally backs up OP story that she was in the toilet and he accidently shot her....what it totally contradicts is the Police story that they were arguing she locked herself in the toilet and he shot through the door....I mean who in such a situation would sit down on the toilet and decide to have a pee! It really puts a massive dent in the police hypothesis

However.....there are certain things about OP story that don't add up, in that looking at the floor plan he had to go from the balcony back past the bed (without Reeva in) to get to the toilet, how did he not see (or notice) that she was not there. Also why did he fire 4 bullets, why not one as a warning?? To show I am armed. Also before he fired a shot why isn't his mental process thinking there are 2 people in this house, the most likely person to be in my toilet (before an intruder) would be Reeva.

What a trial it is going to be.

 

[sydney]

I agree. She has been cremated, not buried. Crux of the case is that the state has to show he meant to do it, I suppose. He definitely meant to shoot whoever was behind the door, that much we know.

One thing that really has come out in OP's favour to me in this bail hearing only! Is that forensics showed (and I think even the cop admitted) that Reeva had an empty bladder.

This totally backs up OP story that she was in the toilet and he accidently shot her....what it totally contradicts is the Police story that they were arguing she locked herself in the toilet and he shot through the door....I mean who in such a situation would sit down on the toilet and decide to have a pee! It really puts a massive dent in the police hypothesis

However.....there are certain things about OP story that don't add up, in that looking at the floor plan he had to go from the balcony back past the bed (without Reeva in) to get to the toilet, how did he not see (or notice) that she was not there. Also why did he fire 4 bullets, why not one as a warning?? To show I am armed. Also before he fired a shot why isn't his mental process thinking there are 2 people in this house, the most likely person to be in my toilet (before an intruder) would be Reeva.

What a trial it is going to be.

the judge will be instructed by mr zuma to string this out for as long as possible.......10-12 weeks probably.........he will have fleeced millions by then.........Africa.......what a continent..!!

 

[Billy the Fish]

Roux seems pretty good. So good in fact that I rekon he's gonna use the Chewbacca defense at the main trial. It just does not make sense.

[yt]xwdba9C2G14[/yt]
[yt]clKi92j6eLE[/yt]

 

[The Spanish]

wish he would just f***ing admit it.

Sawn Off OJ.

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wish he would just f***ing admit it.

Sawn Off OJ.

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wish he would just f***ing admit it.

Sawn Off OJ.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Excuse my ignorance but what would happen if this really turned out to be Oscar letting rip with a volley of bullets because he thought a burglar had entered his house and it was in fact all a tragic accident. Just curious like

Well, I guess it comes down to whether shooting someone you think is a burglar is murder or not.

He has had to go and get his gun from under his bed without noticing that Reeva is not there, walk/hobble from his bedroom into the bathroom to the toilet door, whilst screaming at the "burglar" to get out. Then shoots 4 times through the door. It is up to the judge to determine whether that is murder, I guess. He certainly wanted to shoot the person behind the door.

All this forensic evidence etc is just a smokescreen. Oscar does not deny shooting her, so I really think it comes down to the above and whether the prosecution have decent evidence of a fight beforehand. They have 2 neighbours so far, which is better than 1.

 

[Bold Seagull]

So I was right, it is a Tom Sharpe novel!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21528631

Unbelievable, how on earth did the police department manage to assign a detective to this high profile case who in turn is also subject to an attempted murder charge! Honestly, even Kommandant van Heerden was not that stupid!!!

 

[Insel affe]

[tweet]304185537256906752[/tweet]

So from that floor plan you have to go into the bedroom to get to the bathroom ? with just one window access, why would a burglar break in there knowing it more than likely leads to a bedroom. and it also says blacony, which would mean one would maybe have to use a ladder to get in ?

Well I know what I think !!

 

[simmo]

The next twist will be that due to the attempted murder charge Botha will be removed from the case and the investigation will be handed to his deputy a Monsier Jacques Clouseau

 

[User removed 4]

 

[Common as Mook]

So I was right, it is a Tom Sharpe novel!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21528631

Unbelievable, how on earth did the police department manage to assign a detective to this high profile case who in turn is also subject to an attempted murder charge! Honestly, even Kommandant van Heerden was not that stupid!!!

One of my favourite ever books.

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View attachment 39733

AHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!

 

[Bold Seagull]

One of my favourite ever books.

Yep, and I got it and read it on your recommendation on another thread a while back!

 

[KZNSeagull]

So I was right, it is a Tom Sharpe novel!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21528631

Unbelievable, how on earth did the police department manage to assign a detective to this high profile case who in turn is also subject to an attempted murder charge! Honestly, even Kommandant van Heerden was not that stupid!!!

It's impressive isn't it!

Plus some woman stood up at the start of proceedings this morning saying that she has an urgent motion to bring regarding OP's mental state - something to do with the constitution. Everyone looked perplexed and the magistrate told her he won't hear arguments from anyone other than counsel (ie piss off). She picks up her plastic bag and walks out of court. All very odd.

What a circus!