Opening Up Old Sussex Railway Lines

[beorhthelm]

Beeching was, with respect, and with the benefit of hindsight, an idiot.

So many of the railways that he ordered to be ripped up, would be invaluable today.

the problem then was most stations weren't used enough to justify them and thats not changed. yes, it would be great for commuters to be able to travel from all theses little stations on these extra lines, but wheres the passengers 10am-4pm and 7-12pm? even on the busy routes with large discounts available, the post-peak trains can be half empty.

 

[Gary Leeds]

From what I have heard when Network Rail put the plans in for the new HH station it includes provisions for a Bluebell only platform with passing loop. If you look at the trackwork as it stands there is already a loop to run back round on platform 1 as I beleive the Hanson trains use it if they need to switch ends after coming out of the depot.

I would not say its impossible, infact I would say its easier than the link to East Grinstead but there are a couple of houses on the old track bed and a missing bridge as has been pointed out. But the fact that there is already track on half the route does make it easier and cheaper. The key is securing the Hanson site when/if they move out.

I am sure I also heard heading south from Sheffield Park was pretty much a non starter due to buildings/roads immediately south of the station using the old track bed and that's before you get into the problems around Lewes

The Ouse Valley Viaduct is limited to 2 tracks so there would be little point in expanding the line from that to HH to 4 tracks to then have to drop back again to two for the tunnels after the station. Any passing of fast trains can and is done by using the slow platforms at HH

 

[folkestonesgull]

I was thinking about this the other day as I drove from Horsted Keynes to Ardingly - the existing track goes through my Dads farm and I grew up flattening coins under the trains on the rails and walking along the track and over the bridges - we used to head down to Horsted Keynes station to get icecreams as it was the nearest shop! The viaduct will be the biggest challenge, however reconnecting Haywards Heath to East Grinstead would be an amazing achievement.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Beeching was, with respect, and with the benefit of hindsight, an idiot.

So many of the railways that he ordered to be ripped up, would be invaluable today.

Beeching was given a job to do and he did it,where it fell apart was no one had the vision NOT TO SELL trackbeds/routes/stations etc. Sure demolish Rowfant,Grange Road but hold on to the land.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

I was thinking about this the other day as I drove from Horsted Keynes to Ardingly - the existing track goes through my Dads farm and I grew up flattening coins under the trains on the rails and walking along the track and over the bridges - we used to head down to Horsted Keynes station to get icecreams as it was the nearest shop! The viaduct will be the biggest challenge, however reconnecting Haywards Heath to East Grinstead would be an amazing achievement.

Nothing is beyond The BLUEBELL.

 

[Boys 9d]

No mention has yet been made of the Spa Valley Railway which now connects the Network Rail station at Eridge via Groombridge to the site of the old Tunbridge Wells West Station. To rejoin it to the main line at Tunbridge Wells would involve demolishing a Sainsbury Superstore. If done this would of course with a new link from Lewes to Uckfield provide an alternative route from Brighton to London.

 

[Motogull]

Not just the Sainsbury though. There's a lot of pricey property in the way too. Isn't the problem with these tracks is that if there's a breakdown, the whole line is stuffed?

 

[The Birdman]

It would be great to give these projects like the BlueBell railway and Lewes link to Uckfield our backing get writing we need some good infrastructure projects other than Roads.

 

[Bladders]

Those who claim 'Beeching was an idiot' really have no clue on the subject matter. Without going into too much detail Richard Beeching was the Chief Engineer at ICI who was seconded by the government for 5 years to become the Chairman of the British Railways Board. He was selected for this position by Ernest Marples who was the Minister of Transport at the time and who also had a big finger in the road building industry pie. Even though Marples sold his shares in his own road building company what many didn't know at the time was that he sold them to his wife and had a huge vested interest in the building of the first motorways.

Beeching's remit was to make the railways pay for itself and look to close perceived duplicate lines like the The Great Central etc, in other words he had to look at it like a business. With the Railways in a poor state after the 2nd world war and lack of investment the system was really on it's knees, you also have to take into account that government policy at the time favoured road building as did the general public who aspired to own their own vehicles. The railway was looked upon in those days at a Victorian relic on it's last legs.

Beeching did not close one single railway line or station, he simply put together his report as requested ; The reshaping of British Railways - and the Tory government at the time rubber stamped it.

The following Labour government also did little to reverse it but thanks to Barbara Castle she lobbied that the railways were not just about the bottom line but also provided a social need to smaller communities and should be subsidised, and thankfully quite a few lines avoided the axe.

What also didn't help is that when the big 4 of the LNER, LMS, GWR and SR become nationalised as British Railways their bus services which they owned and had started to integrate with the railways became a separate entity and effectively became competition to the railways.

Obviously with hindsight quite few lines should not have been shut but the biggest crime was selling off the track beds to developers.

 

[mattpenfold]

In quite a number of cases, the original terms on which the land for the railway was obtained required that it be offered back to the original owners (or those who subsequently bought the land the railway track ran across) should the line close.

 

[Bladders]

Always wished I could have traveled on the Cuckoo line, always seems quite eerie when I 've cycled up the cuckoo trail past Hellingly station still with it's origional platform in place.

The old Polegate station was also a major hub back in the 50's. Here it is looking towards Eastbourne with the Cuckoo branch on the left of the picture.

 

[The Birdman]

Nice picture bring back steam

 

[Paskman]

Always wished I could have traveled on the Cuckoo line, always seems quite eerie when I 've cycled up the cuckoo trail past Hellingly station still with it's origional platform in place.

The old Polegate station was also a major hub back in the 50's. Here it is looking towards Eastbourne with the Cuckoo branch on the left of the picture.

I've travelled on the Cuckoo Line. My grandparents lived in Hellingly and they took my brother and I up the Cuckoo Line shortly before it closed. I do remember we travelled in some of the old green BR carriages behind a BR Class 5 Standard tank engine. We used to watch the steam hauled goods trains as they used the line, as well as the diesel thumpers. They was also a final "special" hauled by a couple of Southern moguls. After the last train had run we used to walk up the disused track, before it was lifted, towards Horam. It was quite eerie - shades of Stand By Me!

 

[Bladders]

I've travelled on the Cuckoo Line. My grandparents lived in Hellingly and they took my brother and I up the Cuckoo Line shortly before it closed. I do remember we travelled in some of the old green BR carriages behind a BR Class 5 Standard tank engine. We used to watch the steam hauled goods trains as they used the line, as well as the diesel thumpers. They was also a final "special" hauled by a couple of Southern moguls. After the last train had run we used to walk up the disused track, before it was lifted, towards Horam. It was quite eerie - shades of Stand By Me!

You lucky devil! Good story.

Would have beem nice to see it for myself in it's hey day but in reality it was never going to avoid the axe. By the end the line had one train per hour and only an average of 250 people were using it per day with only 23 being season ticket holders.

Hailsham should have been saved as it was a growing town at the time and could really do with a station today but the former site is now a housing estate.

You may have seen this before but if not, here's a nice trip down memory lane. A then and now with some nice footage of the old stations on the line from Polegate to Redgate Mill Junction.

 

[Paskman]

Don't whether you were aware, but there used to be an electric tramway that ran from a siding opposite Hellingly station, across the fields and up to the old Hellingly Mental Hospital. I believe it was closed in about 1960. The engine shed at the Hospital was still there until a couple of years ago, when I believe it was demolished as part of the housing development. Some of the poles for the overhead wire,and the gates where it crossed New and Park roads were also there until fairly recently (the gates on New Road might still be there). The old carriage was for years a shelter on the cricket ground at the Hospital - I remember it as a kid. Try Googling it, it is fascinating if you are interested in the history of the Cuckoo Line.

 

[Bladders]

Don't whether you were aware, but there used to be an electric tramway that ran from a siding opposite Hellingly station, across the fields and up to the old Hellingly Mental Hospital. I believe it was closed in about 1960. The engine shed at the Hospital was still there until a couple of years ago, when I believe it was demolished as part of the housing development. Some of the poles for the overhead wire,and the gates where it crossed New and Park roads were also there until fairly recently (the gates on New Road might still be there). The old carriage was for years a shelter on the cricket ground at the Hospital - I remember it as a kid. Try Googling it, it is fascinating if you are interested in the history of the Cuckoo Line.

Yes it had an old wooden platform that just serviced the Asylum, though it was nothing to do with the LBSCR. It was electrified by the hospitals own generated current at 500 volts DC.

Think they closed the hospital line in the early 1930's and also removed the platform.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Beeching was, with respect, and with the benefit of hindsight, an idiot.

So many of the railways that he ordered to be ripped up, would be invaluable today.

Yes but he was only doing what Ernest Marples told him to do, and Marples had made a lot of money out of road building, so had a vested interest in seeing the rail network contracting and reduced competition for road hauliers.

From Wikipedia:

" Conflict of interest:

Shortly after he became a junior minister in November 1951, Marples resigned as Managing Director of Marples Ridgway but continued to hold some 80% of the firm's shares. When he was made Minister of Transport in October 1959, Marples undertook to sell his shareholding in the company as he was now in clear breach of the House of Commons' rules on conflicts of interest. He had not done so by January 1960 when the Evening Standard reported that Marples Ridgeway had won the tender to build the Hammersmith Flyover and that the Ministry of Transport's engineers had endorsed the London County Council's rejection of a lower tender. Marples first attempt to sell his shares was blocked by the Attorney-General on the basis that he was using his former business partner, Reg Ridgeway, as an agent to ensure that he could buy back the shares upon leaving office. Marples therefore sold his shares to his wife, reserving himself the possibility to reacquire them at the original price after leaving office; by this time, his shares had come to be worth between £350,000 and £400,000.

In 1959 Marples opened the first section of the M1 motorway shortly after becoming minister. It is now understood that although his company was not directly contracted to build the M1, Marples, Ridgway "certainly had a finger in the pie". Marples Ridgway built the Hammersmith Flyover in London at a cost of £1.3 million, immediately followed by building the Chiswick Flyover;

Marples, Ridgway was also involved in other major road projects in the 1950s and 1960s including the £4.1 million extension of the M1 into London, referred to as the 'Hendon Urban Motorway' at the time. "

 

[dannyboy]

i live in ardingly and would love a station here. the only problem is the station is by hansons on college road. thats almost closer to haywards heath and no pavements to get there. unless im mistaken of course

 

[Bladders]

i live in ardingly and would love a station here. the only problem is the station is by hansons on college road. thats almost closer to haywards heath and no pavements to get there. unless im mistaken of course

The old one closed in 1963 and is an aggregate depot now. The Bluebell Railway have their eye on it as their next expansion I do believe.

Wont ever connect to the mainline again though unfortunately.

 

[Mr Blobby]

I note the Bluebell Railway have just updated their long term objectives and posted these on their website.

These definitely include the extension via Ardingly towards HH. There is already a fair amount of ongoing maintenance work to stabilise the trackbed. I believe they have looked at the feasibility of by-passing or passing through the stoneworks. Then there are the logistics of getting into HH, although I believe the Bluebell may have some right of access? You would think that the congested Brighton mainline might take preference should any scope become available at HH, so would be interesting?

Another objective is the opening of a station at West Hoathly, which to me seems more likely in the shorter term, although by no means a certainty.

To their credit The Bluebell are maintaining a watching brief on the Sheff Park to Lewes route although they acknowledge the obstructions at Newick make this very unlikely.

Living in West Hoathly it would be nice for the station to re-open, although as WH seagull said, its in Sharpthorne not West Hoathly! The Platform is still there and the steam trains come through pretty regularly (about as often as the one local bus we get). The nearest staion is Horsted Keynes at the moment. A link to HH would be brilliant stuff! All we can hear from our house is the whooooooo hooooooooo before they go into the Sharpthorne tunnel, love it!!