Older People Being 'Airbrushed' Out Of Virus Figures

[RossyG]

And yet there are still irresponsible twits scaremongering saying we are pursuing a policy of Euthanasia…..astonishing.

Probably the same people who were saying incorrectly that Johnson had said we were going to take it on the chin all in one go and allow it to move through the whole population

Exactly. When something good like herd immunity has been equated with genocide in many people's eyes, you know that something has gone drastically wrong with the coverage of this issue.

 

[Jim D]

The only way to get natural resistance is to recover from the illness, or be vaccinated. There are many many vulnerable people with asthma, COPD, those being treated for cancer, and immunosuppressant that cannot be allowed to catch it.
What do you propose to do with them? Isolate them for the rest of their lives?

A valid vaccine is many many months away. Even the flu jab which I have every October is revamped every Spring because as I said before, viruses mutate.

We have no idea when we are likely to get a vaccine. There may be one in a few months but that process may stretch into many, many more months. In the meantime the vulnerable people will stay locked-down and 'the rest of their lives' may well turn out to be the case for some. I am definitely of the opinion that Herd Immunity will be the way that we get out of this - either through a vaccine being produced or through the sheer numbers of people having had the virus - whichever happens first.
Lockdown is not going to be the solution (but it's the best way forward that we have at the moment) as it is quite clear that a significant minority will not follow the advice. These people will contract it and take it back to their locked-down families. Even those going out for exercise or to the shops (legitimately) will catch it off others and bring it back - it's the 2 to 10 day incubation period that worries me as you're still infectious and can be out and about (exercise, shopping) without anybody knowing. As soon as stories appear in the papers about 'Mum went to the shop and caught it, brought it home and now she and her vulnerable husband have died - leaving 3 orphaned kids' the support for lockdown will be put under extreme pressure. Nobody can say what the final number of deaths will be, but 20000 looks very low (although it was probably modelled on everyone obeying the rules and being able to source the PPE that we need).
We'll just need to stay put, obey the rules and hope that a vaccine is available sooner rather than later.

 

[darkwolf666]

Herd immunity does not mean culling the weak. It doesn’t mean sitting back and letting the virus do it’s worst (although herd immunity could be a side effect of that)

Herd immunity means that as a group of people we aren’t as badly effected by viruses. The common cold, for example.

Herd immunity is good and is brought about either by natural means: antibodies; or scientific means: a vaccine.

If a vaccine for Covid 19 is developed and your wife is given it, she’ll have herd immunity.

I don’t think I can say this any more simply.

Sorry, but we all know the idea of herd immunity that has been talked about here was survival of the fitest, hence the vulnerable being locked away (shielded)...

 

[BeHereNow]

So you're not that fussed about allowing hundreds of thousands of vulnerable real people to die on the altar of a purely hypothetical computer model then? Fair enough

The idea of hundreds of thousands of people dying is from a purely hypothetical computer model. Let’s see how Sweden and Denmark get on.

28,000 people died from the flu in England a few years ago, I didn’t see the media going mad over that then. I doubt this will kill as many people.

Millions of us probably have or have had the Corona virus this year anyway.

 

[RossyG]

Sorry, but we all know the idea of herd immunity that has been talked about here was survival of the fitest, hence the vulnerable being locked away (shielded)...

Unfortunately, I can't see any way of protecting the vulnerable at this time except by locking them away.

 

[sparkie]

Herd Immunity ( without a vaccine ) according to the government figures means 250K+ fatalities who have each been required to take it on the chin.

That is why we suddenly reversed policy and went into lockdown when this became apparent.


I have no desire to be part of the thinking that requires the end to be justified by this sort of means.

 

[BeHereNow]

Unfortunately, I can't see any way of protecting the vulnerable at this time except by locking them away.

This is what we should do every year when the flu comes about. Wonder why the media don’t call for it.

 

[BeHereNow]

Some actual facts, unlike the overblown nonsense you see on the news (which, astonishingly, people still take seriously).
https://youtu.be/RkJELpndAOs

 

[RossyG]

Herd Immunity according to the government figures means 250K+ fatalities who have each been required to take it on the chin.

That is why we suddenly reversed policy and went into lockdown when this became apparent.


I have no desire to be part of the thinking that requires the end to be justified by this sort of means.

As I said above, Herd Immunity isn't some codeword for letting the virus do its worst. Doing that would've resulted in herd immunity as a side effect but isn't herd immunity in itself.

If we found a vaccine that meant no more deaths, that'd be herd immunity too.

And when the lockdown restrictions are eased, that'll be with the aim of herd immunity but in a more managed way.

We have two choices:

1. Herd immunity by means of science or natural antibodies.

2. Stay locked up like this indefinitely.

Again, people have got it into their heads that herd immunity in and of itself is some kind of synonym for genocide or euthanasia. It's not.

 

[darkwolf666]

Unfortunately, I can't see any way of protecting the vulnerable at this time except by locking them away.

I agree on that 100%, I just want people to stop bleating about having to spend 3 to 6 weeks on soft lockdown and fully comprehend the plight of the vulnerable

 

[LamieRobertson]

I agree on that 100%, I just want people to stop bleating about having to spend 3 to 6 weeks on soft lockdown and fully comprehend the plight of the vulnerable

Hmmm ..soft relative to hard ...and I know that you are having a tough time and I agree that for those of us who are doing for example their normal day job it’s a lot easier ..but as I said in another post there isn’t anything soft about any of it ..I’m working and I’m grateful but I struggle at times.. work six days a week ...shop for about five people which takes hours ..organise an elderly father etc etc ..the world out here is in some ways like another planet compared to the norm.

Some like you and family were having a tough time (understatement) way before Covid19 and you have my utmost respect for coming this far...do we totally understand the plight of the vulnerable..not totally unless you are one or attached in some way ...but it doesn’t mean you are forgotten

 

[darkwolf666]

Hmmm ..soft relative to hard ...and I know that you are having a tough time and I agree that for those of us who are doing for example their normal day job it’s a lot easier ..but as I said in another post there isn’t anything soft about any of it ..I’m working and I’m grateful but I struggle at times.. work six days a week ...shop for about five people which takes hours ..organise an elderly father etc etc ..the world out here is in some ways like another planet compared to the norm.

Some like you and family were having a tough time (understatement) way before Covid19 and you have my utmost respect for coming this far...do we totally understand the plight of the vulnerable..not totally unless you are one or attached in some way ...but it doesn’t mean you are forgotten

Thank you...

 

[Silverhatch]

The idea of hundreds of thousands of people dying is from a purely hypothetical computer model. Let’s see how Sweden and Denmark get on.

28,000 people died from the flu in England a few years ago, I didn’t see the media going mad over that then. I doubt this will kill as many people.

Millions of us probably have or have had the Corona virus this year anyway.

Seasonal Flu is a killer - but it is not CV19.

From PHE guidance on Critical Care preparedness for Season Flu: In England, 2,924 confirmed influenza admissions to ICU/HDU and 273 deaths in ICU were reported by 140 NHS acute trusts during the 2018-2019 season. That's a mortality rate just under 10% for seasonal flu ICU/HDU admissions.

From ICNARC (Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre) Mortality Rate from CV19 admissions into ICU/HDU running at 52%. From the same source: Mortaility Rate from comparable Viral Pneumonia historically running at 22%.

These are the sort of figures that get:

- (even) right leaning, market driven and libertarian governments to close economies down
- the NHS/Army building critical care capacity in ICU/HDU Nightingale Field Hospitals
- the recently near death Boris Johnson questioning the wisdom of austerity cuts that reduced NHS bed capability across the board over a decade
- that will be exacerbated when CV19 has torn through UK care homes
- that confirm the narrative uttered by every critical care professional on the planet that they've NEVER experienced anything like this

I hope that millions of us have been infected, are asymptomatic and are immune - but it's a dangerous roll of the dice until we know more about this virus.