[Football] Oh dear VAR with French officials

[Washie]

Why would it benefit the bookies?

Because more people will bet again, and the game will be based on skill, not bias. The game will also stop being ruined by human error, so more people may bet.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

The biggest issue with VAR isn't the system, but the humans implementing it. Unfortunately, most of them don't know the rules and/or they're implementing it for subjective decisions. Goal line technology, for example, is a right or wrong decision and these decisions take roughly 20 seconds or less to check. VAR can be as efficient, we just need the rules sorting out and some clarity about when VAR will be used in game situations.

It's instant - There is no one checking it, there is no tv review or any humans analysing whether it was actually over or not.

Here's how it has been working within the game for some time now, including PL matches here:

When the circuit in the ball crosses the goal line, the electromagnetic field changes, and the computer automatically notifies the referee, again by a radio signal transmitted to his or her watch.

It's not instant to get to the referee though. The point is it's still quick.

Unless you are arguing that the fraction of a second it takes to transmit that signal to the ref isn't instant enough for you

 

[Mr Putdown]

Why would it benefit the bookies?

By removing human error it increases the accuracy of their prediction models.

TB could explain it far better than me.

 

[Bodian]

We have had a few Brighton games already where VAR has been in operation and in those games the goal celebrations were the same as for any other game despite every goal being checked by VAR, with no evidence of the delay for every goal which will kill the game and lead to muted celebrations that some people are suggesting

Not the experience of my City colleague last night. He said that there was a definite 'hurrah, we've scored' moment, followed by the delay, and a muted cheer on confirmation - and that on the next one there was far less 'hurrah, we've scored', and more 'is it going to count?' and waiting around not knowing what was being looked at. He didn't enjoy it.

I think they need to change the offside law to favour the attacking team so that if any part of your body is onside then you're onside, or to put another way the whole body must be offside..

I suspect this will just lead to attackers being slightly further forward, and the arguments will simply change to 'was his heel slightly onside'?

 

[Easy 10]

Because more people will bet again, and the game will be based on skill, not bias. The game will also stop being ruined by human error, so more people may bet.

Absolute nonsense. Why would more people "bet again" ? Who has ever said that wrong decisions are being made because of referees being "bias" ? How does VAR introduce more skill to the game ??

And here's the news - the VAR is also human, and therefore just as subject to error as the onfield ref. Literally NONE of your points add up.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Watching the Liverpool game last night and the CRAP impact of VAR was in force yet again.

"But no decision was referred to VAR?" I hear you say.

You are correct, however the linesman now DON'T flag for some offsides even when it's CLEAR because that's what they've been advised to do. It's mental. Lewandowski was offside, the ball was played, he looked 2 or 3 times at the linesman utterly bewildered, then continued.....before the flag was eventually raised. Sure you can argue 'play to the whistle' but it's making the art of stepping up and catching an attacker offside (which used to be a beautifully fluid process) now disjointed and staggered. Suddenly the Liverpool players were thinking "oh god! He must be onside!" and started running back. In the past, flag up, you're offside. Free kick.

It's all utter NONSENSE.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

You mean like the Tarkowski handball followed by the Burnley penalty at the other end?

Sure, that's a good example. Just because something would work in our favour doesn't mean I can't still think it's rubbish.

As a spectacle, Burnley being awarded a pen, celebrating.....and then the ref giving a penalty up the other end would be RUBBISH for the sport.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Personally I never celebrate Brighton goals at the Amex until I can see that the ref has definitely given the goal (at least several seconds). A couple of disappointments in the past (the most notable being the goal in the world cup that was chaled off because Shearer had elbowed someone as per usual, with the pub I was in going mental for ten seconds, then suddenly realising that the Argies were taking a free kick) have done their Pavlovian condituining on me. A bit of a delay for VAR - pah! Not bothered.

 

[TheJasperCo]

I'm just posting here to say that I've always been against VAR in its current form, for the reasons mentioned earlier in this thread.

I won't say I told you so, but when its many flaws become apparent next season I will have to have told you that I have told you so. Sadly.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

It's instant - There is no one checking it, there is no tv review or any humans analysing whether it was actually over or not.

Here's how it has been working within the game for some time now, including PL matches here:







Unless you are arguing that the fraction of a second it takes to transmit that signal to the ref isn't instant enough for you

I've never seen it be that quick, but I may very well be wrong - it does happen. It may be absolutely instantaneous. It wasn't the other night in the Juve game, but maybe that was just a slightly slower than usual example.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Watching the Liverpool game last night and the CRAP impact of VAR was in force yet again.

"But no decision was referred to VAR?" I hear you say.

You are correct, however the linesman now DON'T flag for some offsides even when it's CLEAR because that's what they've been advised to do. It's mental. Lewandowski was offside, the ball was played, he looked 2 or 3 times at the linesman utterly bewildered, then continued.....before the flag was eventually raised. Sure you can argue 'play to the whistle' but it's making the art of stepping up and catching an attacker offside (which used to be a beautifully fluid process) now disjointed and staggered. Suddenly the Liverpool players were thinking "oh god! He must be onside!" and started running back. In the past, flag up, you're offside. Free kick.

It's all utter NONSENSE.

They don't always flag straight away now.

The rules are about the player being offside and active so until its clear he is active, they won't flag straight away. I can't see it being any different for VAR unless they change the rules and take away the active requirement part and classify it as purely being offside as the ball is played whether the ball goes near them or not

 

[Easy 10]

Personally I never celebrate Brighton goals at the Amex until I can see that the ref has definitely given the goal (at least several seconds). A couple of disappointments in the past (the most notable being the goal in the world cup that was chaled off because Shearer had elbowed someone as per usual, with the pub I was in going mental for ten seconds, then suddenly realising that the Argies were taking a free kick) have done their Pavlovian condituining on me. A bit of a delay for VAR - pah! Not bothered.

Not sure how that works tbh. When we score, then for me its an instant, spontaneous "YESSSS!". I might quickly glance at the lino in my moment of celebration to make sure the flags not up (if I'd not clocked it already), but there's no way I could contain my natural reaction to a goal when it flies in.

If everyone in the stadium did what you do when we score, then a BHA goal would presumably be greeted with complete silence for a few seconds while everyone looks at the ref, followed by the roar if we can see he's not reviewing it.

How odd would that be ? And how deflating for the goalscorer and the players, putting everything on hold.

 

[Triggaaar]

Personally I never celebrate Brighton goals at the Amex until I can see that the ref has definitely given the goal (at least several seconds). A couple of disappointments in the past (the most notable being the goal in the world cup that was chaled off because Shearer had elbowed someone as per usual, with the pub I was in going mental for ten seconds, then suddenly realising that the Argies were taking a free kick) have done their Pavlovian condituining on me. A bit of a delay for VAR - pah! Not bothered.

Similar here. For some (that could be offside) I take a quick look at the lino. Others are just clearly not going to be offside, so I just start celebrating. It will be the same with VAR - some goals are clearly fine and not going to be overruled, so I won't wait to celebrate. There might then be the odd goal that I've celebrated, which is then overturned, but they'll be rare enough to have no impact on my celebrations.

With really poor officiating, VAR could be quite bad for football, but it shouldn't be difficult to make it work for the better.

I do of course understand those who have no faith in any FIFA official.

 

[Nobby]

We have had a few Brighton games already where VAR has been in operation and in those games the goal celebrations were the same as for any other game despite every goal being checked by VAR, with no evidence of the delay for every goal which will kill the game and lead to muted celebrations that some people are suggesting

I don’t agree. There’s always a doubt in your mind as a spectator and this has been there for the Cup games. Next season I’ll be watching the ref rather than the celebrations when we score.
If he puts his finger in his ear, you might as well not celebrate til he gives ( or doesn’t give) the goal
I keep saying - you still have crap refs in the middle and now we’re going to get crap refs in a studio somewhere

Just imagine
Mike Dean onfield ref
Craig Pawson 4th official
Stuart Attwell VAR

The stuff of nightmares

 

[Easy 10]

I don’t agree. There’s always a doubt in your mind as a spectator and this has been there for the Cup games. Next season I’ll be watching the ref rather than the celebrations when we score.
If he puts his finger in his ear, you might as well not celebrate til he gives ( or doesn’t give) the goal
I keep saying - you still have crap refs in the middle and now we’re going to get crap refs in a studio somewhere

Just imagine
Mike Dean onfield ref
Craig Pawson 4th official
Stuart Attwell VAR

The stuff of nightmares

Bearing in mind there is already a shortage of top level referee's, I doubt very much you'd even have an Atwell in the VAR review studio at Heathrow reviewing incidents. It makes me wonder who exactly IS going to be pouring over the monitor, when there's 6 or 7 PL games going on simultaneously.

At the World Cup I remember they had about 5 or 6 VAR's all watching the same game (all in their little refereeing outfits too). How many VAR's will be watching each Premier League game ? If its more than one, what if they disagree with each other over a call ?

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Bearing in mind there is already a shortage of top level referee's, I doubt very much you'd even have an Atwell in the VAR review studio at Heathrow reviewing incidents. It makes me wonder who exactly IS going to be pouring over the monitor, when there's 6 or 7 PL games going on simultaneously.

At the World Cup I remember they had about 5 or 6 VAR's all watching the same game (all in their little refereeing outfits too). How many VAR's will be watching each Premier League game ? If its more than one, what if they disagree with each other over a call ?

Then surely it isn't clear and obvious and therefore no action will be taken

 

[drew]

In the World Cup they had about 8 officials VAR-ing every game, each covering a specific angle / aspect of play. That won't be the case in the PL.

Only 4 per match.

https://football-technology.fifa.com/en/innovations/var-at-the-world-cup/

 

[brightn'ove]

It's instant - There is no one checking it, there is no tv review or any humans analysing whether it was actually over or not.

Here's how it has been working within the game for some time now, including PL matches here:







Unless you are arguing that the fraction of a second it takes to transmit that signal to the ref isn't instant enough for you

I'm pretty sure hawkeye is used in the PL which only uses high speed cameras, rather than a ball with chips in.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Not sure how that works tbh. When we score, then for me its an instant, spontaneous "YESSSS!". I might quickly glance at the lino in my moment of celebration to make sure the flags not up (if I'd not clocked it already), but there's no way I could contain my natural reaction to a goal when it flies in.

If everyone in the stadium did what you do when we score, then a BHA goal would presumably be greeted with complete silence for a few seconds while everyone looks at the ref, followed by the roar if we can see he's not reviewing it.

How odd would that be ? And how deflating for the goalscorer and the players, putting everything on hold.

Indeed. But we are all different.....luckily

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Similar here. For some (that could be offside) I take a quick look at the lino. Others are just clearly not going to be offside, so I just start celebrating. It will be the same with VAR - some goals are clearly fine and not going to be overruled, so I won't wait to celebrate. There might then be the odd goal that I've celebrated, which is then overturned, but they'll be rare enough to have no impact on my celebrations.

With really poor officiating, VAR could be quite bad for football, but it shouldn't be difficult to make it work for the better.

I do of course understand those who have no faith in any FIFA official.

Sound and sensible comment.