Official Running Thread

[Bozza]

As I'm lacking mileage for BM I'll continue to run 10" long runs with the wind behind me. Hills, wind and tempo can all be done in shorter mid week runs. Rather than give up on the marathon I have a revised finish time of 4:15 to 4:00 hours.

Struggling to believe that anyone will be running the Brighton Marathon this year unfortunately.

 

[Artie Fufkin]

hi guys, loved the London Big Half yesterday and really pleased to have come home in 1:15:58, a new PB by was just over a minute from last year's race (1:17:00), and a 5:47 min/mile average pace. The conditions were good - cold with a few tricky breezy moments but dry & sunny. Amazing atmosphere with a lot of spectators lining the course.

The field at the sharp end is stacked with some seriously rapid runners (I placed 223rd overall / 209th Male / 25th in the M 40-44 age category).

It was a frantic start to navigate safely and my pacing was a little off to begin with. From mile 1 to 2 we ran through Limehouse Link Tunnel which is a long stretch and throws the GPS out considerably which didn't help. I managed to settle into a bit of rhythm from mile 5 and was running in a good pack or guys and girls.

We had the 1:15 pacer up ahead of us but it looked like he was either struggling or having a bit of a mare with his pacing as he kept slowing down back to where we were and then all of a sudden sprinting off. He did this about 5 or 6 times (at one point we could see up ahead that he stopped running for what must have been about 20 seconds!) This was causing quite a bit of confusion.

The final 5 miles were a lot of fun and it was great fun working together with a few others, pushing each other on. In the final mile I realised that I was on for nabbing a decent PB so I kicked on with another guy and girl and had to sprint the last 100 meters to just dip a fraction inside 1:16 by 2 seconds.

The only disappointment was that I didn't get a chance to get a glimpse of the distance running legend Ethiopia's Kenenisa Bekele at the start. He won and set a new course record of 60:22 from Mo Farah who won with a 61:14 in 2019.

Now back to marathon training for London in 8 weeks (fingers crossed it goes ahead...)

 

[Bozza]

hi guys, loved the London Big Half yesterday and really pleased to have come home in 1:15:58, a new PB by was just over a minute from last year's race (1:17:00), and a 5:47 min/mile average pace.

Seriously impressive!

I just can't comprehend running that pace for that long.

 

[dazzer6666]

hi guys, loved the London Big Half yesterday and really pleased to have come home in 1:15:58, a new PB by was just over a minute from last year's race (1:17:00), and a 5:47 min/mile average pace. The conditions were good - cold with a few tricky breezy moments but dry & sunny. Amazing atmosphere with a lot of spectators lining the course.

The field at the sharp end is stacked with some seriously rapid runners (I placed 223rd overall / 209th Male / 25th in the M 40-44 age category).

It was a frantic start to navigate safely and my pacing was a little off to begin with. From mile 1 to 2 we ran through Limehouse Link Tunnel which is a long stretch and throws the GPS out considerably which didn't help. I managed to settle into a bit of rhythm from mile 5 and was running in a good pack or guys and girls.

We had the 1:15 pacer up ahead of us but it looked like he was either struggling or having a bit of a mare with his pacing as he kept slowing down back to where we were and then all of a sudden sprinting off. He did this about 5 or 6 times (at one point we could see up ahead that he stopped running for what must have been about 20 seconds!) This was causing quite a bit of confusion.

The final 5 miles were a lot of fun and it was great fun working together with a few others, pushing each other on. In the final mile I realised that I was on for nabbing a decent PB so I kicked on with another guy and girl and had to sprint the last 100 meters to just dip a fraction inside 1:16 by 2 seconds.

The only disappointment was that I didn't get a chance to get a glimpse of the distance running legend Ethiopia's Kenenisa Bekele at the start. He won and set a new course record of 60:22 from Mo Farah who won with a 61:14 in 2019.

Now back to marathon training for London in 8 weeks (fingers crossed it goes ahead...)

Incredible pace - no chance I could do 1 mile at that kind of lick, let alone 13. What shoes do you wear out of interest ?

Had a great debate in the car yesterday coming back from the Stinger (not that Vaporflys would have been much use there TBH)...........two guys I was with are much faster than me (aiming for sub 3) and one reckons it's given him at least 40s on his parkrun time (sub 19 runner). He recently did the Dublin marathon, estimated 80% of those near the front were wearing them. Seems impossible to compete at the sharp end of the race without them now.

 

[Artie Fufkin]

Ran the London Half yesterday, finished with official time of 1:44:54 which is a new PB from last weeks! Really pleased to get under the 1:45 mark. Although just didn't enjoy it as much as Brighton Half, not sure why. Went off too fast for the first 4 miles, then had to recalculate my pace and struggled until the end. Also the course was slightly longer than it should be - i know they are never exactly the distance and i take that into account, but the half marathon distance for this was 13.34 miles. Nearly a quarter of a mile more. Still, it worked out ok in the end!

Well organised event, but a lot of hanging around before hand and waiting in pens. Baggage collection was a pain in the arse as well.

Fantastic running and congrats on another PB from last week's effort at Brighton! My watch came up with 13:13 mile distance so not too bad. It's a big field so tough to stay on the "racing line". I was in my pen for about 25 minutes and did get cold despite wearing a throwaway jumper and although their decision to have a few portaloos inside each of the pens was convenient for that final wee it caused a bit of confusion as to who was queueing for the loo and who was just standing in the pen.

The baggage collection was a bit chaotic but with so many runners and a handful of baggage staff for each baggage truck it was a bit of a waiting game.

 

[dazzer6666]

Ran the London Half yesterday, finished with official time of 1:44:54 which is a new PB from last weeks! Really pleased to get under the 1:45 mark. Although just didn't enjoy it as much as Brighton Half, not sure why. Went off too fast for the first 4 miles, then had to recalculate my pace and struggled until the end. Also the course was slightly longer than it should be - i know they are never exactly the distance and i take that into account, but the half marathon distance for this was 13.34 miles. Nearly a quarter of a mile more. Still, it worked out ok in the end!

Well organised event, but a lot of hanging around before hand and waiting in pens. Baggage collection was a pain in the arse as well.

Good effort

I doubt the course was long - it's too big an event (with records at stake etc) to have not been measured properly. More likely you weaved off the 'racing line' a bit, or your GPS isn't 100% accurate (they rarely are)

 

[Bozza]

Incredible pace - no chance I could do 1 mile at that kind of lick, let alone 13. What shoes do you wear out of interest ?

Had a great debate in the car yesterday coming back from the Stinger (not that Vaporflys would have been much use there TBH)...........two guys I was with are much faster than me (aiming for sub 3) and one reckons it's given him at least 40s on his parkrun time (sub 19 runner). He recently did the Dublin marathon, estimated 80% of those near the front were wearing them. Seems impossible to compete at the sharp end of the race without them now.

Indeed - I intended to write about this on here a few days ago.

If you put all of that time and effort into training for a marathon and you have any interest at all in your finishing time, why the hell would you NOT wear Vaporflys? I appreciate they cost a fair few quid, but when measured against the time commitment given, it's a worthwhile investment for anyone, surely?

 

[dazzer6666]

Indeed - I intended to write about this on here a few days ago.

If you put all of that time and effort into training for a marathon and you have any interest at all in your finishing time, why the hell would you NOT wear Vaporflys? I appreciate they cost a fair few quid, but when measured against the time commitment given, it's a worthwhile investment for anyone, surely?

Pretty much where our discussion yesterday ended up.............the guy that doesn't have them resolved to go online a buy a pair as soon as he got home (I don't have a pair yet though - although I am trying out some Hoka equivalents - I'm so slow at the moment it won't prove anything though)

 

[Bozza]

Pretty much where our discussion yesterday ended up.............the guy that doesn't have them resolved to go online a buy a pair as soon as he got home (I don't have a pair yet though - although I am trying out some Hoka equivalents - I'm so slow at the moment it won't prove anything though)

I read a review of the new Brooks equivalent yesterday and it was pretty damning on them compared to the Vaporfly > https://www.coachmag.co.uk/running-shoes/8445/brooks-hyperion-elite

 

[Nathan]

The baggage collection was a bit chaotic but with so many runners and a handful of baggage staff for each baggage truck it was a bit of a waiting game.

Good effort

I doubt the course was long - it's too big an event (with records at stake etc) to have not been measured properly. More likely you weaved off the 'racing line' a bit, or your GPS isn't 100% accurate (they rarely are)

The baggage could have been worse, thought it was well organised overall and with that many numbers they need to get people in the pens as soon as possible.

Definitely didn't take the racing line - as you say with that many people it is a case of weaving in and out.

What time did you get [MENTION=11816]Artie Fufkin[/MENTION] ?

 

[dazzer6666]

I read a review of the new Brooks equivalent yesterday and it was pretty damning on them compared to the Vaporfly > https://www.coachmag.co.uk/running-shoes/8445/brooks-hyperion-elite

Not surprised - there's a lot of bandwagon jumping by the other manufacturers I think. I tried the Hokas because I get on very well with the make generally, for both road and trail.....I've only run in them a couple of times so far. They are quite harsh (partly because I'm used to the carpet-slipper feel of Hoka Cliftons on the road) and I won't be using them for any long distance stuff (so not a marathon shoe for me) but can definitely feel the 'spring' and the easy runs I've done so far do seem to be a bit quicker. Inconclusive so far though as not properly tested.

https://www.believeintherun.com/2019/02/21/hoka-one-one-carbon-rocket-performance-review/

 

[Artie Fufkin]

Incredible pace - no chance I could do 1 mile at that kind of lick, let alone 13. What shoes do you wear out of interest ?

Had a great debate in the car yesterday coming back from the Stinger (not that Vaporflys would have been much use there TBH)...........two guys I was with are much faster than me (aiming for sub 3) and one reckons it's given him at least 40s on his parkrun time (sub 19 runner). He recently did the Dublin marathon, estimated 80% of those near the front were wearing them. Seems impossible to compete at the sharp end of the race without them now.

Thanks Dazzer! It was my first outing in my Nike Vaporfly NEXT %'s (after having a little test run with them on Saturday). Yes they feel fast and all the science and recent results are proving that they are, but I didn't find the NEXT%'s all that different or a huge jump in "economical advantage" from my Nike Vaporfly 4%'s. Perhaps I need to have more runs in them. The one thing that I do find is that both the 4%'s and NEXT%'s seem to really help with recovery. My legs don't seem to be as battered after racing in them.

I would say over 60% of the runners in my pen were wearing either the 4%'s or NEXT%'s.

You might have seen Nike executed a brilliant marketing stunt this weekend at the USA Marathon Team Trials in Atlanta. They offered a free pair of Nike Alphafly's to every participant in the race! Genius!

 

[Guinness Boy]

Well run Dazzer, Nathan and Artie, great stuff.

On the subject of running with a hangover, this weekend was my mate's birthday, one where we meet up with friends from all over the country and get steamed. Friday night was the night and we managed several pubs and a curry. I was told the mate I've mentioned on here a few times was the last to leave the North Laine Brewhouse early on Saturday morning. On Sunday, at the Stinger, he recorded 3h 35 placing 7th. I've literally not been able to reconcile that in my head. My long run yesterday morning was still hampered by Friday night's booze and topping up with a whopping 3 pints during the Palace debacle.

He and I and a few others doing Serpent Trail have a whatsapp group and the old Vapourflys conversation comes up on there regularly. My stand point was that they are really for proper athletes. I'd feel a total fraud in them jogging along in the middle of the pack. But then a little voice in my head keeps telling me that these might make the sub-4 difference at Brighton. Another little voice, meanwhile, is saying to me do not waste the money whatever you do because Brighton is bound to be cancelled. ARRGH!

 

[Artie Fufkin]

Seriously impressive!

I just can't comprehend running that pace for that long.

Thanks Bozza! Adapting to consistent easy running volume over the last few years helps. For distance running I'm a big advocate of volume vs intensity but to achieve volume safely most of it is easy paced volume, with just a sprinkle of intensity. I very rarely run at my "race paces" with the exception of intervals and a few specific tempos or thresholds. 90% of my running is at an easy pace.

I could bore you senseless with the benefits of easy running but the analogy of building a house is good I think. You need to build the walls of the house first (aerobic foundation) before you build the roof (intensity). No point in building a great big roof if you haven't built a big enough house to hold it.

 

[Nathan]

hi guys, loved the London Big Half yesterday and really pleased to have come home in 1:15:58, a new PB by was just over a minute from last year's race (1:17:00), and a 5:47 min/mile average pace. The conditions were good - cold with a few tricky breezy moments but dry & sunny. Amazing atmosphere with a lot of spectators lining the course.

The field at the sharp end is stacked with some seriously rapid runners (I placed 223rd overall / 209th Male / 25th in the M 40-44 age category).

It was a frantic start to navigate safely and my pacing was a little off to begin with. From mile 1 to 2 we ran through Limehouse Link Tunnel which is a long stretch and throws the GPS out considerably which didn't help. I managed to settle into a bit of rhythm from mile 5 and was running in a good pack or guys and girls.

We had the 1:15 pacer up ahead of us but it looked like he was either struggling or having a bit of a mare with his pacing as he kept slowing down back to where we were and then all of a sudden sprinting off. He did this about 5 or 6 times (at one point we could see up ahead that he stopped running for what must have been about 20 seconds!) This was causing quite a bit of confusion.

The final 5 miles were a lot of fun and it was great fun working together with a few others, pushing each other on. In the final mile I realised that I was on for nabbing a decent PB so I kicked on with another guy and girl and had to sprint the last 100 meters to just dip a fraction inside 1:16 by 2 seconds.

The only disappointment was that I didn't get a chance to get a glimpse of the distance running legend Ethiopia's Kenenisa Bekele at the start. He won and set a new course record of 60:22 from Mo Farah who won with a 61:14 in 2019.

Now back to marathon training for London in 8 weeks (fingers crossed it goes ahead...)

That's just an amazing time, well done.

(I missed your post early when I asked about your time!)

 

[Bozza]

Thanks Dazzer! It was my first outing in my Nike Vaporfly NEXT %'s (after having a little test run with them on Saturday). Yes they feel fast and all the science and recent results are proving that they are, but I didn't find the NEXT%'s all that different or a huge jump in "economical advantage" from my Nike Vaporfly 4%'s.

This excellent piece in the NY Times, that draw on massive amounts of data from runners on Strava, seems to back that up.

We found that a runner wearing the most popular versions of these shoes available to the public — the Zoom Vaporfly 4% or ZoomX Vaporfly Next% — ran 4 to 5 percent faster than a runner wearing an average shoe, and 2 to 3 percent faster than runners in the next-fastest popular shoe. (There was no meaningful difference between the Vaporfly and Next% shoes when we measured their effects separately. We have combined them in our estimates.)​

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/12/13/upshot/nike-vaporfly-next-percent-shoe-estimates.html

 

[Bozza]

Thanks Bozza! Adapting to consistent easy running volume over the last few years helps. For distance running I'm a big advocate of volume vs intensity but to achieve volume safely most of it is easy paced volume, with just a sprinkle of intensity. I very rarely run at my "race paces" with the exception of intervals and a few specific tempos or thresholds. 90% of my running is at an easy pace.

I could bore you senseless with the benefits of easy running but the analogy of building a house is good I think. You need to build the walls of the house first (aerobic foundation) before you build the roof (intensity). No point in building a great big roof if you haven't built a big enough house to hold it.

Whilst I get all that, it's how you get to the position where your easy pace is as fast as it is, with your race pace being that much faster again.

Someone on here asked about running faster a few months ago and [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] essentially said something like "the only way to run faster is to run faster" and I've been keeping that in mind with my own running and I think it's paying dividends, evidenced by my 10km run yesterday where I was only really trying for the last mile or so.

My "easy pace" has quickened a fair bit, I think, over the last few months, although I've not run any great distances of note. The last time I tried a 13.1, I thought I'd be capable of holding 8:00/miles for the whole duration, but I ran out of gas from around 10 miles and lost time over the last three miles. I took a chunk of my previous best time, but it wasn't quite as good as I was hoping for.

 

[Ninja Elephant]

Anybody running the Cambridge Half Marathon next week? Myself and the rest of the Sussex Sports Photography crew will be lying in wait for you if you are.

Not for me - Lydd 20 miler this sunday. First ever race over that distance so I'm excited to see where I am for pace. I'll be aiming to run it 6:30 per mile, but we'll see how long I can sustain that or how quickly I have to re-assess that pace during the run.

Struggling to believe that anyone will be running the Brighton Marathon this year unfortunately.

Why?

 

[Bozza]

Why?

I just think by the time April comes around, mass-participation events of most kinds will be put on hold due to COVID-19.

 

[Artie Fufkin]

Whilst I get all that, it's how you get to the position where your easy pace is as fast as it is, with your race pace being that much faster again.

Someone on here asked about running faster a few months ago and [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] essentially said something like "the only way to run faster is to run faster" and I've been keeping that in mind with my own running and I think it's paying dividends, evidenced by my 10km run yesterday where I was only really trying for the last mile or so.

My "easy pace" has quickened a fair bit, I think, over the last few months, although I've not run any great distances of note. The last time I tried a 13.1, I thought I'd be capable of holding 8:00/miles for the whole duration, but I ran out of gas from around 10 miles and lost time over the last three miles. I took a chunk of my previous best time, but it wasn't quite as good as I was hoping for.

For distance running I would say the opposite to dazzer. Distance running is all about endurance, not speed. So unless you're a sprinter the aim is to improve endurance but it takes time and patience. When I asked a coach a few years ago what he thought I should change in my running to get faster he said "be consistent, be patient and slow down". I thought consistency and patience made sense but slowing down was just weird but I gave it a go and it worked but it takes time.

Yes it's important to change stimulus now and again and there's benefits to hard efforts but your aerobic base or foundation is the key to endurance running. To improve your aerobic base it's all about consistent running frequency & volume To be consistent easy paced running is your friend as that is when your cardiovascular system improves and it the gives the body the best possible chance to safely adapt to the consistent work, load and stress the consistent activity places on it (your skeletal muscular system) .

I would say your easy pace is improving as you are adapting to your consistency, rather than the paces of your runs.

I'd recommend checking out the YouTube videos from running coach legend Jack Daniels who explains the benefits of easy running much better than me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veAQ73OJdwY&t=3s