Official Running Thread

[dazzer6666]

Hello again chaps. I need to ask yet another favour I'm afraid but I'm sure people on here will know.

After Brighton Marathon I was going to have a crack at my 10k PB in a proper race. Worthing was an obvious one with time to recover, a flat course that I did last year an [MENTION=474]Mr Blobby[/MENTION] already in it. Unfortunately my son's football club have just confirmed that I will indeed be at Worthing that weekend - at a Level One coaching course. All sodding weekend,

So looking through the Sussex racing calender there's a Horsham 10k on 15 May and a Bognor the same day. Is a month enough recovery time after a marathon? If so which is faster to run (I want a 46 min course if poss so few hilly bits) and ideally easy to get to by train? Or is the Burgess Hill 10k on 2 May doable (I would have said too close to the Marathon but I bet [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] would know)

Ta guys.

Pretty much agree with the other two, although depends on your plans and targets. If your marathon plan is to plod round without over-taxing yourself, a month is ok, although your training won't have been geared to a fast 10k so it won't be as good as it can be. Better option would be to focus on the marathon for now (your A race), have a bit of a recovery afterwards (probably a week off, then 2-3 weeks of returning to running), then have a specific training block (probably 6-8 weeks) of 10k specific training. Pretty sure there are a couple evening ones in the summer that you could target (Phoenix I seem to recall ?)

Given your generally much better fitness (especially by the end of March), the thing is you'll almost certainly PB a 10k a month either side of the marathon quite easily, but if you want to properly smash one the training needs to be specific.

The Burgess Hill 10k isn't really a great PB course anyway, quite narrow and twisty in parts, some offroad and some hills.

All unqualified opinion of course - you know who you should be asking.......[emoji6]

 

[knocky1]

I have already pencilled in the Phoenix 10k for an old man pb attempt.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Pretty much agree with the other two, although depends on your plans and targets. If your marathon plan is to plod round without over-taxing yourself, a month is ok, although your training won't have been geared to a fast 10k so it won't be as good as it can be. Better option would be to focus on the marathon for now (your A race), have a bit of a recovery afterwards (probably a week off, then 2-3 weeks of returning to running), then have a specific training block (probably 6-8 weeks) of 10k specific training. Pretty sure there are a couple evening ones in the summer that you could target (Phoenix I seem to recall ?)

Given your generally much better fitness (especially by the end of March), the thing is you'll almost certainly PB a 10k a month either side of the marathon quite easily, but if you want to properly smash one the training needs to be specific.

The Burgess Hill 10k isn't really a great PB course anyway, quite narrow and twisty in parts, some offroad and some hills.

All unqualified opinion of course - you know who you should be asking.......[emoji6]

I do

With the specific training I'm doing the marathon is very much my A race. Sub 4 hours or bust (actually I'll have to get round for the sponsor money but I'm treating it as a race rather than a distance challenge). I'll get back to 10k in the Phoenix in July.

 

[dazzer6666]

I do

With the specific training I'm doing the marathon is very much my A race. Sub 4 hours or bust (actually I'll have to get round for the sponsor money but I'm treating it as a race rather than a distance challenge). I'll get back to 10k in the Phoenix in July.

You'll naturally improve at all distances with a marathon programme, but afterwards switch to a block of speed work and you'll really fly. The endurance benefits will carry through. I'd like to do something similar myself but the maras and ultras keep getting in the way [emoji3]

In my experience any decent coach will tell you to focus on one race at a time if you really want to nail it - you'll still get incidental improvements at other distances (only measure I have from last year is that training for 100 miles took over 2 mins off my 5k time). I suspect you could drop a 10k into your plans in the next few weeks as a benchmark and as part of your training if you wanted.

 

[big nuts]

I do

With the specific training I'm doing the marathon is very much my A race. Sub 4 hours or bust (actually I'll have to get round for the sponsor money but I'm treating it as a race rather than a distance challenge). I'll get back to 10k in the Phoenix in July.

Some good advice from seasoned and experienced runners.

I would definitely treat the marathon as a distance challenge rather than race. Respect the marathon distance it's a bloody long way and the last 8 miles can be a killer if you race the start.

Also sub 4 is a really tough ask for a debut marathon, you probably need to be doing a sub 1:45 half to be in the type of shape to achieve this.

Dazzer is right one race at a time, after a marathon I find speed work close to impossible so recovery is key.

I remember back in 2013 I tried to race a 10k in May in training and didn't run again until August as ITB hit me hard.

Mr Rioja and Brie seem like good allies post marathon, you will be a stronger runner with that distance under your belt and you should find with you being well rested you will start to pb at a variety of distances.

Looking at the racing calendar there is a Worthing 10k early June which is probably my first race after the BM and then after the Phoenix like yourself.

ps - I'll let you know if I'm going Saturday as I still owe you £14 from the Mince Pie 10.

 

[Pembury]

Hello again chaps. I need to ask yet another favour I'm afraid but I'm sure people on here will know.

After Brighton Marathon I was going to have a crack at my 10k PB in a proper race. Worthing was an obvious one with time to recover, a flat course that I did last year an [MENTION=474]Mr Blobby[/MENTION] already in it. Unfortunately my son's football club have just confirmed that I will indeed be at Worthing that weekend - at a Level One coaching course. All sodding weekend,

So looking through the Sussex racing calender there's a Horsham 10k on 15 May and a Bognor the same day. Is a month enough recovery time after a marathon? If so which is faster to run (I want a 46 min course if poss so few hilly bits) and ideally easy to get to by train? Or is the Burgess Hill 10k on 2 May doable (I would have said too close to the Marathon but I bet [MENTION=27279]dazzer6666[/MENTION] would know)

Ta guys.

All great advice.. ! AlI would say, pretty much as above is focus on your pb for Brighton.. Afterwards rest rest rest and if have booked a 10k, then focus on that. The training you put into the marathon, though for a greater distance, will give you chance of a pb at a 10k.. If its a month between races just light recovery runs should suffice.

 

[Mr Blobby]

I did the Horsham 10k after the Brighton marathon last year, it was my first timed 10k so just wanted to break an hour which I did. I then worked up to the Phoenix 10k and did that in 54 mins, loved the shorter distances after the marathon hell!

I have a few races lined up this year now (most I have ever done in a year, but all building up to my next Marathon)

21st Feb Tunbridge Wells HM
28th Feb Brighton HM
20th March North West London HM (finishes in Wembley Stadium)
5th June Worthing 10k
24th July Down Tow Up Flow HM (Marlow to Windsor - or the other way round - cant remember!!)
20th August Reykjavik Marathon

I will also possibly do the Phoenix 10k as I love the nice flat run! It will hopefully be a few days after England have won Euro 2016!!!

 

[knocky1]

I do

With the specific training I'm doing the marathon is very much my A race. Sub 4 hours or bust (actually I'll have to get round for the sponsor money but I'm treating it as a race rather than a distance challenge). I'll get back to 10k in the Phoenix in July.

Sounds to me like your training is going really well. Brilliant. I've just compared mine to last year and I'm better off. Missed the first 2 weeks of the year each year. Last year 2 weeks of squitters in India followed by a course of antibiotics worse than the squitters. This year the soleus. I'm better off as the marathon starts a week later this year.
This tip maybe useful, if you begin to feel like superman hold in the reins and do not overdo any session. Carry the reserved energy into the next session.
Then, if you bump into me, tell me the same tip. Nearly all my overtraining incidents or injuries come after a feeling of invincibility and overdoing a session.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Sounds to me like your training is going really well. Brilliant. I've just compared mine to last year and I'm better off. Missed the first 2 weeks of the year each year. Last year 2 weeks of squitters in India followed by a course of antibiotics worse than the squitters. This year the soleus. I'm better off as the marathon starts a week later this year.
This tip maybe useful, if you begin to feel like superman hold in the reins and do not overdo any session. Carry the reserved energy into the next session.
Then, if you bump into me, tell me the same tip. Nearly all my overtraining incidents or injuries come after a feeling of invincibility and overdoing a session.

Cheers.

That's good advice. Ostensibly, since I've never run 30 miles a week in my life before I should be shattered. Instead I feel fitter than at any time in my life or certainly since I was about 21. If I was on my own I would undoubtedly overdo it and injure myself. Luckily I have a very expensive stalker on Strava who's guaranteed to reign me in. I'm trying to follow her plan to the letter anyway, else doing it in the first place seems pointless.
[MENTION=18183]big nuts[/MENTION] I will be at the game on Sat. Will be in the north end of the West Lower afterwards. Arrival time depends on my mate and when I manage to wrap up my football training session. When I said "race" my current aim is to try and get round in very consistent 9 min miles all the way. We're currently working on making that my steady state pace. And, yes, I'm looking for 1.45 - 1.50 in the half if I can.

 

[knocky1]

What surprised me is that [MENTION=18183]big nuts[/MENTION] overdid it once. I thought he was superman and beyond the pains of mere mortals.

 

[big nuts]

What surprised me is that [MENTION=18183]big nuts[/MENTION] overdid it once. I thought he was superman and beyond the pains of mere mortals.

I was checking out my training schedule prior to the 2014 BM where the aim was sub 4 hours. Looking back I over trained and my body was on the brink of falling apart.

I was running 20 miles around the 3 hour mark and ran 18+ four times in prep. Contrast that to the year after; one run at 17.5 and one at 17 and I ran a far better race as I was fresher.

Back to 2014 I injured myself as I kept trying to beat 10k pb's and didn't rest. I took my 10k pb down from 49 to 47 minutes but paid the price with 3 months at Studio 57 most weeks.

 

[knocky1]

I was checking out my training schedule prior to the 2014 BM where the aim was sub 4 hours. Looking back I over trained and my body was on the brink of falling apart.

I was running 20 miles around the 3 hour mark and ran 18+ four times in prep. Contrast that to the year after; one run at 17.5 and one at 17 and I ran a far better race as I was fresher.

Back to 2014 I injured myself as I kept trying to beat 10k pb's and didn't rest. I took my 10k pb down from 49 to 47 minutes but paid the price with 3 months at Studio 57 most weeks.

That's why training plans are essential. Breakdowns, injuries, and general knackeredness usually look inevitable when analysing the build up.....

..........and good performance should come after a smooth build u.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I was checking out my training schedule prior to the 2014 BM where the aim was sub 4 hours. Looking back I over trained and my body was on the brink of falling apart.

I was running 20 miles around the 3 hour mark and ran 18+ four times in prep. Contrast that to the year after; one run at 17.5 and one at 17 and I ran a far better race as I was fresher.

Back to 2014 I injured myself as I kept trying to beat 10k pb's and didn't rest. I took my 10k pb down from 49 to 47 minutes but paid the price with 3 months at Studio 57 most weeks.

I'm definitely more about quality than quantity these days, although I still aim for 70-80 miles a month. Four sessions: Long run; hills; shorter tempo run and parkrun/speed work. Normally about 25-30 miles a week. It's my own loose training plan, but I'm hoping that it works.

Having said that I did more than I expected this morning on the 'hills' run. Went away from my normal haunts, up the hill from OSR past PACA, and then whatever that ******* road is that runs next to King George VIth towards the bypass in Hangleton. By the time I got to Corals I was up to eight miles, and I was only planning 10! So I made it up to a half, just for the hell of it.

Great run - really enjoyable going somewhere different, and a few decent hills along the way: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1020229336

Bloody cold though.

 

[dazzer6666]

I was checking out my training schedule prior to the 2014 BM where the aim was sub 4 hours. Looking back I over trained and my body was on the brink of falling apart.

I was running 20 miles around the 3 hour mark and ran 18+ four times in prep. Contrast that to the year after; one run at 17.5 and one at 17 and I ran a far better race as I was fresher.

Back to 2014 I injured myself as I kept trying to beat 10k pb's and didn't rest. I took my 10k pb down from 49 to 47 minutes but paid the price with 3 months at Studio 57 most weeks.

20 miles in 3 hours when aiming for sub 4 is way too quick.........would (rule of thumb) normally aim to be a minute per mile or so down on planned race pace on longest training runs unless specifically targeting speed endurance (and even then only part of the run would be at or faster than marathon pace)

 

[knocky1]

Having said that I did more than I expected this morning on the 'hills' run. Went away from my normal haunts, up the hill from OSR past PACA, and then whatever that ******* road is that runs next to King George VIth towards the bypass in Hangleton. By the time I got to Corals I was up to eight miles, and I was only planning 10! So I made it up to a half, just for the hell of it.

Great run - really enjoyable going somewhere different, and a few decent hills along the way: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1020229336

Bloody cold though.

You ran up 'Snakey' I think. King George VI Avenue next to King George VI Drive. A serious hill I haven't run up for 16 years.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

You ran up 'Snakey' I think. King George VI Avenue next to King George VI Drive. A serious hill I haven't run up for 16 years.

Yeah, that'll be it. I've done it once or twice before and it's not easy (pace dropped to about 11.30m/m).

But you know me and a hill [MENTION=15605]knocky1[/MENTION]

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I'm back for advice!
The half marathon training is still not enjoyable and the cold is really causing my breathing a problem.

Quick question, I'm trying 3 "smaller" runs a week and one "bigger" one. On the smaller ones I'm running quite hilly routes which are really tiring me out and almost making me stop. My mentality is that if I train on hills, the relatively flat "longer runs" (brighton seafront) and the half marathon itself should feel "easier compared to the horrendous hills.

Is that completely idiotic or should I be only training on the flat route I will expect on the day and try go further?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Guinness Boy]

I'm back for advice!
The half marathon training is still not enjoyable and the cold is really causing my breathing a problem.

Quick question, I'm trying 3 "smaller" runs a week and one "bigger" one. On the smaller ones I'm running quite hilly routes which are really tiring me out and almost making me stop. My mentality is that if I train on hills, the relatively flat "longer runs" (brighton seafront) and the half marathon itself should feel "easier compared to the horrendous hills.

Is that completely idiotic or should I be only training on the flat route I will expect on the day and try go further?

Thanks in advance!

The others will know more than me but what I can tell you is that repeated hill running is what knackered my calf. They take all the strain.

 

[dazzer6666]

I'm back for advice!
The half marathon training is still not enjoyable and the cold is really causing my breathing a problem.

Quick question, I'm trying 3 "smaller" runs a week and one "bigger" one. On the smaller ones I'm running quite hilly routes which are really tiring me out and almost making me stop. My mentality is that if I train on hills, the relatively flat "longer runs" (brighton seafront) and the half marathon itself should feel "easier compared to the horrendous hills.

Is that completely idiotic or should I be only training on the flat route I will expect on the day and try go further?

Thanks in advance!

Good question. It's not so much the distance, but also the intensity. Sounds like you are just 'running' without too much structure - apart from not being the most efficient way of training, it's also boring.......as regards the hills, they are good for you, but you don't need to be on them all the time

Assuming you can do 4 runs a week, try mixing them up a bit. For example :

Monday - rest or 20-30 minute recovery (ie very slow pace)
Tuesday - intervals or hill repeats - anything from 800m to 2k, repeated with equal rests (ie if 800m takes you 4 mins, have a 4 min recovery slow jog after each one). Run the intervals or hills quite hard, say 7/9 on a scale of 1-10)
Weds - rest
Thursday - tempo run - 30-60 mins at a steady pace (something like a 10k/half marathon effort)
Friday - easy 30 mins
Saturday - rest
Sunday - long slow run (ie slower than your planned HM (pace)

These are just examples - plenty of other sessions you can incorporate. May also be worth looking at some generic HM plans online and following those ? You can also get far more precise with the effort levels once you know what kind of pace you can run at (for example do a timed 5K, then use a standard calculator to work out your training zones - for example, based on a 20 minute 5k, mine look like this :

Zone Zone Description My Plan Description Relative Race Distance for Effort Your Current Range in min per mile
1 Recovery Recovery/ V Easy 100 mile Slower than 9:00
2 Easy Easy 50km - 100km 8:06 - 9:00
3 Tempo Steady/ Tempo Half Mara - Mara 6:57 - 8:05
4 Threshold Threshold 5km - 10km 6:31 - 6:57
5 VO2 Max 95%/ Close to All Out Short intervals; 800s - 1.5miles 6:07 - 6:31
6 Anaerobic All Out Sprint Faster than 6:06

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Good question. It's not so much the distance, but also the intensity. Sounds like you are just 'running' without too much structure - apart from not being the most efficient way of training, it's also boring.......as regards the hills, they are good for you, but you don't need to be on them all the time

Assuming you can do 4 runs a week, try mixing them up a bit. For example :

Monday - rest or 20-30 minute recovery (ie very slow pace)
Tuesday - intervals or hill repeats - anything from 800m to 2k, repeated with equal rests (ie if 800m takes you 4 mins, have a 4 min recovery slow jog after each one). Run the intervals or hills quite hard, say 7/9 on a scale of 1-10)
Weds - rest
Thursday - tempo run - 30-60 mins at a steady pace (something like a 10k/half marathon effort)
Friday - easy 30 mins
Saturday - rest
Sunday - long slow run (ie slower than your planned HM (pace)

These are just examples - plenty of other sessions you can incorporate. May also be worth looking at some generic HM plans online and following those ? You can also get far more precise with the effort levels once you know what kind of pace you can run at (for example do a timed 5K, then use a standard calculator to work out your training zones - for example, based on a 20 minute 5k, mine look like this :

Zone Zone Description My Plan Description Relative Race Distance for Effort Your Current Range in min per mile
1 Recovery Recovery/ V Easy 100 mile Slower than 9:00
2 Easy Easy 50km - 100km 8:06 - 9:00
3 Tempo Steady/ Tempo Half Mara - Mara 6:57 - 8:05
4 Threshold Threshold 5km - 10km 6:31 - 6:57
5 VO2 Max 95%/ Close to All Out Short intervals; 800s - 1.5miles 6:07 - 6:31
6 Anaerobic All Out Sprint Faster than 6:06

Wow, fantastic. Thank you.

I agree, for boredom alone I need to mix it up as I'm really struggling with that aspect.........as well as the whole fitness issue!
If my "longer" run tomorrow doesn't go well than the panic will well and truly set in!