[Albion] Odsonne Édouard

[Half Time Pies]

Lol - so you're saying that almost all of us are completely wrong when we suggest that the SPL is not a very good barometer of quality? And as for scoring at under 21 level - well it's probably akin to our current under 23 level. I agree, of course, I no nothing of the complexities of our scouting department and/or our work when analysing the quality or otherwise of a prospective signing... However, if he's truly worth 20-30 million he'd have gone elsewhere already.

What I am saying is that he'd be a pointless signing as he's clearly not at a level above our current prolific strike force and paying north of 20 million for 'potential' is frankly laughable for a club with our transfer budget.

If we sign him, for a ridiculous fee, and he's scored 2 in 10 I'm willing to bet they'll be an awful lot of people who were clamouring after his signature queuing up to buy pitchforks from the club shop.

He's not worth the supposed fee, and anyone claiming he is, is frankly deluded. Hopefully the club are focussing on value versus potential or value versus proven quality (older player) - either way I'm fine with that. For me at 20 million he provides nothing but an inflated fee, coupled with a terrible recent scoring record, and this in an abysmal league playing for the second best team therein... Tearing it up against the likes of Dundee hmmmmmmmmm come on! I don't need to be a scout to suggest that, nor a sports analyst or indeed scientist.

This is exactly my point, you are taking two elements, that he plays for Celtic and he's out of form as evidence that he's not up to it which is an overly simplistic way of looking at a players potential. As a case in point remember Moussa Dembélé? He was on our radar around 2017/2018, at the same time he had a drop in form for Celtic and that year scored an 'abysmal' 9 goals in the SPL. I think from memory he was pretty demotivated at Celtic and was pushing for a move elsewhere.

We missed out on him and he signed for Lyon, the following season he was their top scorer, helping them to a 3rd place finish in Ligue 1 and in 2019/20 scored 24 goals and helped them get to the champions league semi final. I remember him scoring a brace in the quarter finals to knock out Man City!

There is a lot of similarities here, he was a young player with a dip in form that was also highly rated enough in France to be selected for their under 21's squad despite playing for Celtic. It's not so much about the standard of Under 21 football and more the fact that France is a powerhouse in world football with a wealth of talent at their disposal so making their under 21's squad on a regular basis and particularly as a centre forward is quite an achievement.

Good job for Lyon that their recruitment team didn't write him off simply because most of his goals for Celtic came against the likes of Dundee!

 

[Sheebo]

This is exactly my point, you are taking two elements, that he plays for Celtic and he's out of form as evidence that he's not up to it which is an overly simplistic way of looking at a players potential. As a case in point remember Moussa Dembélé? He was on our radar around 2017/2018, at the same time he had a drop in form for Celtic and that year scored an 'abysmal' 9 goals in the SPL. I think from memory he was pretty demotivated at Celtic and was pushing for a move elsewhere.

We missed out on him and he signed for Lyon, the following season he was their top scorer, helping them to a 3rd place finish in Ligue 1 and in 2019/20 scored 24 goals and helped them get to the champions league semi final. I remember him scoring a brace in the quarter finals to knock out Man City!

There is a lot of similarities here, he was a young player with a dip in form that was also highly rated enough in France to be selected for their under 21's squad despite playing for Celtic. It's not so much about the standard of Under 21 football and more the fact that France is a powerhouse in world football with a wealth of talent at their disposal so making their under 21's squad on a regular basis and particularly as a centre forward is quite an achievement.

Good job for Lyon that their recruitment team didn't write him off simply because most of his goals for Celtic came against the likes of Dundee!

Nail. Head. Absolutely some writing off a very good player who was about to join Leicester earlier in the window - that says it all as they don’t get a lot wrong. Don’t think it’ll be us, but whoever he joins I’ll keep an eye on his progress. That said, a mate of mine used to sell the programmes and said it’s on - he’d know, and he’s def not just copying the dozens of media reports out there.

 

[Surf's Up]

Southampton looking to spunk the Ings cash and guess where they're looking

 

[b.w.2.]

We don't need to sign any striker - UNLESS we sign one who is better than what we've got. Edouard isn't - he's around Maupay level, or a bit below. Their achievements (pre transfer/possible transfer to Brighton) are about the same.
Carry on with 8-10 goals a season Maupay, or pay £20M for a potential 8-10 goals a season Edouard? .................... hmm ......... difficult choice .....

Not that simple. We may play both. Edouard may easily outperform Maupay, or he may bomb. You don’t know which, and nor does anyone else. And we are chasing Darwin too, who is a better fit to our needs IMHO


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[b.w.2.]

View attachment 139279

I like it


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[b.w.2.]

Southampton looking to spunk the Ings cash and guess where they're looking

Allegedly everywhere we are. No substance. No Stains bids either.


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[b.w.2.]

This is exactly my point, you are taking two elements, that he plays for Celtic and he's out of form as evidence that he's not up to it which is an overly simplistic way of looking at a players potential. As a case in point remember Moussa Dembélé? He was on our radar around 2017/2018, at the same time he had a drop in form for Celtic and that year scored an 'abysmal' 9 goals in the SPL. I think from memory he was pretty demotivated at Celtic and was pushing for a move elsewhere.

We missed out on him and he signed for Lyon, the following season he was their top scorer, helping them to a 3rd place finish in Ligue 1 and in 2019/20 scored 24 goals and helped them get to the champions league semi final. I remember him scoring a brace in the quarter finals to knock out Man City!

There is a lot of similarities here, he was a young player with a dip in form that was also highly rated enough in France to be selected for their under 21's squad despite playing for Celtic. It's not so much about the standard of Under 21 football and more the fact that France is a powerhouse in world football with a wealth of talent at their disposal so making their under 21's squad on a regular basis and particularly as a centre forward is quite an achievement.

Good job for Lyon that their recruitment team didn't write him off simply because most of his goals for Celtic came against the likes of Dundee!

Spot on.


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[Swansman]

Nail. Head. Absolutely some writing off a very good player who was about to join Leicester earlier in the window - that says it all as they don’t get a lot wrong. Don’t think it’ll be us, but whoever he joins I’ll keep an eye on his progress. That said, a mate of mine used to sell the programmes and said it’s on - he’d know, and he’s def not just copying the dozens of media reports out there.

What about their decision not to sign him then..?

 

[peterward]

You are contradicting yourself a little bit here I think. Whilst explaining how the recruitment team work, you don’t ‘think’ he is any better……..but have you performed the same excruciatingly detailed analysis of every minute he’s played that our recruitment and analysis team will have done ? Have you compared that analysis with a multitude of other strikers from literally every major league globally, plus against those we already have, and how he would fit into Potter’s system ? The recruitment team will have done…..so if we do go ahead, it’ll be because they think he IS better……..and decent value……and has potential (if none of these can be demonstrated, Barber won’t sign the cheque)

They might **** it up, they might be wrong, he might turn out to be a dud…..but the decision will be based on sound fundamentals.

All valid points Dazzer and almost certainly correct.....you just hope they updated or replaced their alogorithms after Locadia

 

[peterward]

Nail. Head. Absolutely some writing off a very good player who was about to join Leicester earlier in the window - that says it all as they don’t get a lot wrong. Don’t think it’ll be us, but whoever he joins I’ll keep an eye on his progress. That said, a mate of mine used to sell the programmes and said it’s on - he’d know, and he’s def not just copying the dozens of media reports out there.

Daily Record, Scottish Sun, French journos......all just guessing.

Sheebo ITK seals the deal.

It's happening

 

[GT49er]

You are contradicting yourself a little bit here I think. Whilst explaining how the recruitment team work, you don’t ‘think’ he is any better……..but have you performed the same excruciatingly detailed analysis of every minute he’s played that our recruitment and analysis team will have done ? Have you compared that analysis with a multitude of other strikers from literally every major league globally, plus against those we already have, and how he would fit into Potter’s system ? The recruitment team will have done…..so if we do go ahead, it’ll be because they think he IS better……..and decent value……and has potential (if none of these can be demonstrated, Barber won’t sign the cheque)

They might **** it up, they might be wrong, he might turn out to be a dud…..but the decision will be based on sound fundamentals.

You are missing the point if why I split the OPs post into 2 parts before answering them separately. In the first answer I was explaining that many of us do understand how complex recruiting a player is.
The answer to the second part of his post is specifically about Edouard, the principle subject of this thread and the discussion of whether we want him or not. My personal opinion on terms of that fans discussion is tat he isn't an improvement on what we've got.

 

[dazzer6666]

All valid points Dazzer and almost certainly correct.....you just hope they updated or replaced their alogorithms after Locadia

system obviously a bit buggy

 

[macbeth]

What about their decision not to sign him then..?

Describing Édouard as 'not as good as Patson Daka' is probably no slight on Édouard

 

[Kosh]

This is exactly my point, you are taking two elements, that he plays for Celtic and he's out of form as evidence that he's not up to it which is an overly simplistic way of looking at a players potential. As a case in point remember Moussa Dembélé? He was on our radar around 2017/2018, at the same time he had a drop in form for Celtic and that year scored an 'abysmal' 9 goals in the SPL. I think from memory he was pretty demotivated at Celtic and was pushing for a move elsewhere.

We missed out on him and he signed for Lyon, the following season he was their top scorer, helping them to a 3rd place finish in Ligue 1 and in 2019/20 scored 24 goals and helped them get to the champions league semi final. I remember him scoring a brace in the quarter finals to knock out Man City!

There is a lot of similarities here, he was a young player with a dip in form that was also highly rated enough in France to be selected for their under 21's squad despite playing for Celtic. It's not so much about the standard of Under 21 football and more the fact that France is a powerhouse in world football with a wealth of talent at their disposal so making their under 21's squad on a regular basis and particularly as a centre forward is quite an achievement.

Good job for Lyon that their recruitment team didn't write him off simply because most of his goals for Celtic came against the likes of Dundee!

It’s a good example, I have to agree. I suspect however that one example of an SPL level forward proving to be a success at a genuinely higher standard, where countless others have failed isn’t an exception proving the rule… just an exception.

I await his arrival and reaction to his exploits with interest. All I can say is; if he does sign, God help him if he doesn’t bang in 15 goals minimum. Comparisons like the above (your post) only serve to raise expectation to levels that are genuinely unfair.

I wish him luck.

 

[Justice]

Describing Édouard as 'not as good as Patson Daka' is probably no slight on Édouard

You would of thought all the time spent by us watching Enoch our scout would of also seen Daka play many times maybe they didn’t rate him that highly.

 

[peterward]

It’s a good example, I have to agree. I suspect however that one example of an SPL level forward proving to be a success at a genuinely higher standard, where countless others have failed isn’t an exception proving the rule… just an exception.

I await his arrival and reaction to his exploits with interest. All I can say is; if he does sign, God help him if he doesn’t bang in 15 goals minimum. Comparisons like the above (your post) only serve to raise expectation to levels that are genuinely unfair.

I wish him luck.

If he does sign, I personally wouldnt judge him on whether he scores 15 goals etc...... Just effort, overall improvement on XG or how he compliments the team.

Maybe a crap example, but Old Emile Heskey was never a prolific scorer, but whenever he played the teams he played for often did better as did his strike partners.

If Edouard got 5 goals but our XG improved, maybe Maupay improved along side him etc and we end up middle/top half it will be a success.

The fear with Edouard is a repeat of what appears his present attitude at Celtic, it's written he's not sure about a move to us and has big salary demands. Nowt wrong with being ambitious, or wanting to go further up the pyramid, but it looks like he's not arsed at all at Celtic anymore and is angling for the move.

So worst case is he flops and we're stuck with him.
Best case, he's successfull, scores a few but then will want out at the first flash of skirt higher up the tree

 

[Bodian]

If he does sign, I personally wouldnt judge him on whether he scores 15 goals etc...... Just effort, overall improvement on XG or how he compliments the team.

Maybe a crap example, but Old Emile Heskey was never a prolific scorer, but whenever he played the teams he played for often did better as did his strike partners.

If Edouard got 5 goals but our XG improved, maybe Maupay improved along side him etc and we end up middle/top half it will be a success.

The fear with Edouard is a repeat of what appears his present attitude at Celtic, it's written he's not sure about a move to us and has big salary demands. Nowt wrong with being ambitious, or wanting to go further up the pyramid, but it looks like he's not arsed at all at Celtic anymore and is angling for the move.

So worst case is he flops and we're stuck with him.
Best case, he's successfull, scores a few but then will want out at the first flash of skirt higher up the tree

Hopefully if the first bit comes true, we will ourselves be higher up the tree!

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

According to something Mrs DiS just showed me, Saints are after him,

 

[b.w.2.]

According to something Mrs DiS just showed me, Saints are after him,

Was it a BS press article by a lazy journalist who has realised Stains have lost their best striker and wrote a story with zero substance?


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[Kosh]

If he does sign, I personally wouldnt judge him on whether he scores 15 goals etc...... Just effort, overall improvement on XG or how he compliments the team.

Maybe a crap example, but Old Emile Heskey was never a prolific scorer, but whenever he played the teams he played for often did better as did his strike partners.

If Edouard got 5 goals but our XG improved, maybe Maupay improved along side him etc and we end up middle/top half it will be a success.

The fear with Edouard is a repeat of what appears his present attitude at Celtic, it's written he's not sure about a move to us and has big salary demands. Nowt wrong with being ambitious, or wanting to go further up the pyramid, but it looks like he's not arsed at all at Celtic anymore and is angling for the move.

So worst case is he flops and we're stuck with him.
Best case, he's successfull, scores a few but then will want out at the first flash of skirt higher up the tree

Very good post, and yes that’s where the rub could lie with regard to this one. Obviously top level strikers start at 20 million these days - so I guess unearthing a gem for 5 million is like looking for a signed Beatles LP in a charity shop. Yet I still can’t help looking… I guess that’s just who I am. I reckon we could get him on the cheap in January, especially if his form continues to wane… although this strategy carries obvious risks.

Ultimately if he joins, I hope he displays the correct attitude throughout his days with us and (yes) tries. That’s my major worry tbh, not that it’s my money but I do worry re the recent reports regarding his ‘effort’ which (that said) might be wide of the mark I accept.

For some reason, I can’t quite fathom, I’m just not that excited or bothered either way.