Obesity "not individuals' fault"

[Nibble]

Presumably to actually prove this point, you are going to give some evidence to back up this 'fact' ?

Oh here we go. If you want evidence mate, go onto each countries government website and look up their spending on health education etc and then go onto our governments website and do the same. The you compare them. Do you see how it works?
I am not gonna start quoting figures and wasting my time with some fool who has clearly already made up their mind.

All the information is on the websites. Look it up. I am not gonna spoon feed you reams of information.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Agreed that they should not be absolved of all responsibilty but we are talking about people who have become lazy through a lifetime of ignorance and they will never, never do anything about it on their own. Whatever people argue you cannot say this government does enough to promote health in this country. If they started to we may see improvement in a few generations time.

No-matter what you say calling people fat, lazy bastards will not help them. Somebody who overeats to the point where their life is a t risk has clearly got a dysfunction which I beleive food manafacturers target.

This is an example of our Government not promoting health:

"The most important thing is there has to be public consent and understanding of the issues you're trying to challenge," she said.

"A mandate for change will be difficult because it has to be preceded by an understanding of the dangers of obesity."

A public consent and understanding of the issues you're trying to challenge? What the hell is she on about, it is the Governments role to educate people about obesity you don't need their consent, did they need the public's consent in the 70's when the anti-smoking campaigns started up?

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

I only started playing again this year for the first time in 5 years so have been to a fair few games in the last couple of seasons. Plus I went to quite a few preseason.

That makes sense now!

 

[REDLAND]

Actually that is not all, as it gives the perfect opportunity to trot out the Jimmy Carr quote, yet again.

Jimmy Carr is up on stage, doing his thing, and he starts laying into fatties, when a 'larger gentleman' starts heckling him; "Shut up. You can't say that. What about people with hormone imbalance?"

JC "Have you got an imbalance mate?"

Fatty "Yes".

JC "What are you taking for it? Pies?"

Sorry I can't let that pass without saying how bloody funny that is

good work

 

[magoo]

There could be an up-side to all this obesity.

As it tends to be stupid people who let themselves get overweight they will be less attractive thus will be less likely to breed more stupid people! Let them eat cake i say!

 

[Bozza]

Oh here we go. If you want evidence mate, go onto each countries government website and look up their spending on health education etc and then go onto our governments website and do the same. The you compare them. Do you see how it works?
I am not gonna start quoting figures and wasting my time with some fool who has clearly already made up their mind.

All the information is on the websites. Look it up. I am not gonna spoon feed you reams of information.

So you're guessing then? Fair enough.

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

i find it remarkable that at the same time that the number of people being declared 'obese' is at a time when anorexia is at a high, we've had the introduction of the 'size zero', and there has never been so much concentration (by women, admittedly) on achieving that 'perfect' body.

so i remarked.

 

[chip]

You could argue though that the country's obsession with the car hasn't helped has it? From reading the article it wasn't just talking about over eating was it? They talked about the sedantry lifestyle that some people lead nowadays, this is in part due to the increased use of the car. This Government and others before it have never done enough to support public transport, this would possibly help. You can say that you would do possibly more walking if you were going places by train and bus than by car, as most people don't have bus stops or stations right on their doorstep!

The gist of the Foresight review is that societal changes have reduced the need for physical energy expenditure and that combined with increasing costs of vegetables, for example, in relation to high fat, high calorie processed foods is a significant factor. British women are the most obese and British men the second most obese in Europe. 86% of obese people have type 2 diabetes although many do not know. There is also a higher prevelance of hypertension, CVD, etc in the obese and a great er incidence of stroke. Obese people die nine years early on average so it is actually more risky than smoking.

Physical activity is a strong mediator of positive benefits and not just because of weight loss. Excess weight and sedentary lifestyles lead to poor utilization of insulin, lower groth kinase and different gene expressions in skeletal muscle. The BHF recomend 5 times 30 minutes of moderate aerobic activiry a week but most obese people (and the overweight) generally do not come anywhere near that. Children are copying their parents lifestyle and see no shame in being fat. New diseases, such as fatty liver and metabolic syndrome are being characterised as a result of increased weight and decreased activity levels. A huge problem in the making and in most case with no physiological, cellular or genetic basis. Clearly this must be the fault of individuals.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Incidentally I am bordering between overweight and obese on the BMI scale. If I am honest I know I am over weight and haven't been to the gym for a year now and it is all my fault. But the education I got wasn't really from the Government about being overweight, I knew that being overweight wasn't healthy from school and parents really.
Although I do remember an advert from the seventies about a man who over eats all his life and then has a heart attack!

 

[hans kraay fan club]

There could be an up-side to all this obesity.

As it tends to be stupid people who let themselves get overweight they will be less attractive thus will be less likely to breed more stupid people! Let them eat cake i say!

I'm not sure it works like that though. Have you never seen fat women in jogging bottoms pushing prams?

 

[Nibble]

So you're guessing then? Fair enough.

If you cannot be f***ed to look it up and prove me wrong then you are going to have to either take my word for it or f*** off.

 

[Lokki 7]

I am not gonna spoon feed you

So it's only Les you spoon feed? Come on Nibbs share the love.

 

[sten_super]

Agreed that they should not be absolved of all responsibilty but we are talking about people who have become lazy through a lifetime of ignorance and they will never, never do anything about it on their own. Whatever people argue you cannot say this government does enough to promote health in this country. If they started to we may see improvement in a few generations time.

No-matter what you say calling people fat, lazy bastards will not help them. Somebody who overeats to the point where their life is a t risk has clearly got a dysfunction which I beleive food manafacturers target.

I agree that the government has a role to play. Institutional changes are needed (such as encouraging, nor forcing, children to do more sport), but I don't agree with this blame culture that means that people don't want to take responsibility. It wasn't my schools fault that I used to skip games afternoon, or the university's fault that I never did any sport at university. It was my fault. It's not the government (or anyone elses fault) that I used to go to McDonalds for lunch, it was mine. If you want to talk about young children being targeted, it is not the governments, or advertisers fault, it is up to the parents to exercise some discipline. I realise that it is easier said than done, but that is what must happen. Simply saying 'we need to do something about it', or relying on government schemes, will not work. Say the government introduces more PE at school... kids that don't want to do PE will simply get their (probably similarly lazy) parents to write them a letter excusing them. What can you do about that?

Individuals NEED to start taking responsibility for themselves. There should be MORE emphasis put on the individuals responsibility to look after themselves and their kids, not less. I don't want a nanny state, I just want people to be culpable for their own mistakes.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

The gist of the Foresight review is that societal changes have reduced the need for physical energy expenditure and that combined with increasing costs of vegetables, for example, in relation to high fat, high calorie processed foods is a significant factor. British women are the most obese and British men the second most obese in Europe. 86% of obese people have type 2 diabetes although many do not know. There is also a higher prevelance of hypertension, CVD, etc in the obese and a great er incidence of stroke. Obese people die nine years early on average so it is actually more risky than smoking.

Physical activity is a strong mediator of positive benefits and not just because of weight loss. Excess weight and sedentary lifestyles lead to poor utilization of insulin, lower groth kinase and different gene expressions in skeletal muscle. The BHF recomend 5 times 30 minutes of moderate aerobic activiry a week but most obese people (and the overweight) generally do not come anywhere near that. Children are copying their parents lifestyle and see no shame in being fat. New diseases, such as fatty liver and metabolic syndrome are being characterised as a result of increased weight and decreased activity levels. A huge problem in the making and in most case with no physiological, cellular or genetic basis. Clearly this must be the fault of individuals.

What or who leads societal changes? It is mainly the Government and business isn't it? That is why I made my point about the use of the car and public transport.
Who makes vegetables more expensive and fast food cheaper? It's not the public is it?
Whilst I recognise that the public are a lot ot blame for this problem, (most people must know if they are overweight that it is not good for them), the Government need to improve on their act also.

 

[Bozza]

If you cannot be f***ed to look it up and prove me wrong then you are going to have to either take my word for it or f*** off.

That's not very nice.

Get out and do some exercise, it might help you chill a bit.

(And post those facts when you come back all relaxed)

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Incidentally I am bordering between overweight and obese on the BMI scale. If I am honest I know I am over weight and haven't been to the gym for a year now and it is all my fault. But the education I got wasn't really from the Government about being overweight, I knew that being overweight wasn't healthy from school and parents really.
Although I do remember an advert from the seventies about a man who over eats all his life and then has a heart attack!

I remember a brilliant ad from years back, where tubby Dad is looking at a picture that his little daughter has drawn. She's going through it with him, saying "there's me, there's the baby, there's Mummy" Then she points at another figure she's drawn, that's basically round with stick arms and legs and says "and there's you Daddy".

Camera turns to the guy's face, as he registers that this is how his little girl sees him, and he clearly feels a right fat prick. Great ad. Need more like it.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Whatever emphasis you place on the individual, the report identifies some trends which are undeniably true. In general terns, people do live more sedentary lifestyles, walk less, use the car more, use more labour-saving devices. Even something like, I dunno, a lawnmower, needed much more energy to use 20 years ago simply because of the design. And people pay other people to do more these days, rather than do it themselves. Another factor, this time of income.

So I think Bozza's view is too simplistic. Where he is right, of course, is that if you are strong-minded and willed enough to do buck some of these trends, you certainly can.

 

[Woodchip]

If you cannot be f***ed to look it up and prove me wrong then you are going to have to either take my word for it or f*** off.

I think Bozza's pulling your plonker. I hope so anyway, otherwise he's being exceptionally lazy for someone trying to prove someone wrong (much like Antifalmer)

 

[NMH]

I don't know if this factor has been tabled by anyone (including goverment authorities who announce info on obesity, but baulk at revealing this factor for fear of public outcry); Farmers are allowed a 'certain amount' of hormonal encouragement for their livestock to gain weight, and quickly as possible. You eat the meat, you consume those same hormones. Result - you gain weight, as soon as possible.

Maybe regulations that allow lableing of some produce as 'organic', mean that the same animals are raised without hormonal, sodium and sulphite 'encouragement'.
Hence the extra high price for that skinny-looking organic free-range chicken - the farmer needs to keep it longer, feed it longer, and give it more room to roam, in order for it to grow to THAT, comparatively meagre, weight!

Want to be thinner, have more control over your weight and your pangs of hunger for 'something' but you're not quite sure why or what?

Figure it out peeps, you ARE what you eat!

 

[Nibble]

That's not very nice.

Get out and do some exercise, it might help you chill a bit.

(And post those facts when you come back all relaxed)

I excercise pretty much every day thanks.


I just get sick of people on this forum who can't come up with any better argument than "prove it". Look it up for yourself. It is not a case of me having to chill.

I meant the words f*** Off in a very relaxed fashion.