O/T Think your credit card expires at the end of the expiry date month? Think again!

[Goldstone1976]

Long story - here's the summary:

It turns out that the big credit card companies (in my case, MasterCard issued through JL) send a file containing the new credit card details to their big customers ("for example, Mr Goldstone1976, Amazon & Uber") at the same time as they send you your new card ("typically 4-6 weeks before the expiry of the existing card"). It's then up to the big customer to upload your details to their system at a time of their choosing, which could well be before the expiry date of your existing card.

In my case, it turns out that Uber have been trying to collect a fare from my credit card since 15/6. JL have been declining it because I hadn't activated the new card, and Uber had already updated my card details in their system. Card details that I hadn't given them.

Morale of the story: activate your new card and swap all your payment details pretty much as soon as you receive the new card.

Bigger issue: wtf are credit companies doing, giving my card details to anyone, at any time?

 

[beorhthelm]

Bigger issue: wtf are credit companies doing, giving my card details to anyone, at any time?

i believe they revoke authentication of the existing card once the new one is issue (or certain time after). they wouldn't send out details of every card in the world to every merchant in the world, or even just the large ones.

 

[Goldstone1976]

i believe they revoke authentication of the existing card once the new one is issue (or certain time after). they wouldn't send out details of every card in the world to every merchant in the world, or even just the large ones.

No, I realise that they won't just send my card details to every merchant! When I said "anyone", I meant, why are they sending my details to anyone without either seeking my permission, or even telling me?

The credit card company don't revoke the existing card until its expiry date. It's the big customer, in my case Uber, who have updated their (Uber's) systems with my new card details two weeks before the expiry date of my existing card. They got the new card details from JL (or, probably more accurately, MasterCard) at the same time that JL sent me the new card.

 

[narly101]

No, I realise that they won't just send my card details to every merchant! When I said "anyone", I meant, why are they sending my details to anyone without either seeking my permission, or even telling me?

The credit card company don't revoke the existing card until its expiry date. It's the big customer, in my case Uber, who have updated their (Uber's) systems with my new card details two weeks before the expiry date of my existing card. They got the new card details from JL (or, probably more accurately, MasterCard) at the same time that JL sent me the new card.

Do card numbers change on expiry? Or do they carry on with the same number, just a different expiry date?

 

[El Presidente]

Long story - here's the summary:

It turns out that the big credit card companies (in my case, MasterCard issued through JL) send a file containing the new credit card details to their big customers ("for example, Mr Goldstone1976, Pornhub Pro & Cocaine Imports Inc") at the same time as they send you your new card ("typically 4-6 weeks before the expiry of the existing card"). It's then up to the big customer to upload your details to their system at a time of their choosing, which could well be before the expiry date of your existing card.

In my case, it turns out that Uber have been trying to collect a fare from my credit card since 15/6. JL have been declining it because I hadn't activated the new card, and Uber had already updated my card details in their system. Card details that I hadn't given them.

Morale of the story: activate your new card and swap all your payment details pretty much as soon as you receive the new card.

Bigger issue: wtf are credit companies doing, giving my card details to anyone, at any time?

Could this be an illegal act, and if so, is there scope for some form of compensation similar to that in relation to PPI?

 

[maltaseagull]

No, I realise that they won't just send my card details to every merchant! When I said "anyone", I meant, why are they sending my details to anyone without either seeking my permission, or even telling me?

The credit card company don't revoke the existing card until its expiry date. It's the big customer, in my case Uber, who have updated their (Uber's) systems with my new card details two weeks before the expiry date of my existing card. They got the new card details from JL (or, probably more accurately, MasterCard) at the same time that JL sent me the new card.

Doesn't the new card have the same number but a new expiry date and CVV?

 

[Baldseagull]

Is it good customer service to provide your new details to a merchant you use often, or a breach of their commitment to keep your details secure?
If you have given uber permission to store your current details, I would say it was good customer service from your CC provider, but maybe a bit crap of uber to immediately apply them over the top, and not run them alongside your existing info, until the old details either no longer returned a payment or the date expired

 

[Audax]

Looks to me like there's some assumptions being made here.

The card companies, as far as I'm aware, do not do what is described in this thread. It's more likely that the answer is far simpler: Uber's system isn't correctly processing cards in the final month before expiry. It's not uncommon for that to be the case in my experience.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Looks to me like there's some assumptions being made here.

The card companies, as far as I'm aware, do not do what is described in this thread. It's more likely that the answer is far simpler: Uber's system isn't correctly processing cards in the final month before expiry. It's not uncommon for that to be the case in my experience.

Sounds more likely - I have never had any company or website that knew my new card number, I can't believe they would sent that info out. I can believe that things stop working when you approach the expiry date.

 

[Goldstone1976]

[MENTION=2695]Tricky Dicky[/MENTION] [MENTION=33374]Audax[/MENTION]

The facts I have presented in the OP are precisely what I was told by a 4th level escalation manager in JL Financial Services. The stuff in quotation marks are quotes. He told me that credit card companies in general, and JLFS in particular, routinely send the details of the replacement card to their "big customers, with millions of customers, such as Amazon and Uber; not your local gym, at the same time as we send your replacement card to you".

It's also the only answer to my situation that makes any sense, absent someone hacking JLFS. Uber used my new credit card (JLFS told me, ie the one with the new expiry date). JLFS declined it (Uber told me in a pissed off email). I hadn't given Uber my new card details as I hadn't activated it yet, and was still using my existing card. JLFS told me that it had been declined because I hadn't yet activated the card that Uber used. Therefore, either JLFS had their systems hacked, or JLFS sent the new details to Uber. The 4th level manager confirmed that they do send the details to their big customers.

Don't know what more I can say to persuade you!

 

[Tricky Dicky]

routinely send the details of the replacement card to their "big customers, with millions of customers, such as Amazon and Uber

I can believe that's what you were told, but if this was the case I would never have to enter my new card number into Amazon, which I do. It just doesn't sound right.

 

[Cian]

Any service/provider you've signed an ongoing agreement with is provided the details basically. Its also how the card-cancelling trick to avoid car hire damages or speeding fines doesn't work - they are able to get the new number from the provider


Amazon at least do not use any updated details normally (you are made re-enter them) but its possible they get them for ongoing subscriptions

 

[Goldstone1976]

Is it good customer service to provide your new details to a merchant you use often, or a breach of their commitment to keep your details secure?
If you have given uber permission to store your current details, I would say it was good customer service from your CC provider, but maybe a bit crap of uber to immediately apply them over the top, and not run them alongside your existing info, until the old details either no longer returned a payment or the date expired

Yeah, that's where I've ended up too. It can easily be seen as good customer service, but:

1 the card issuer should tell you that they're going to do it and either

a honour payments made on the existing card until the expiry date, or

b attach a big sticker to the new card saying " activate immediately: you may find that some big companies will start using this card before your existing card expires".

I can see why they don't do (b) - they'll have a lot of customers phoning them up, asking wtf?! They also can't really do (a) either, because then they're accepting payments against a card before their customer has confirmed receipt.

Their solution: send the file of replacement card details to their big customers, and hope that their big customers don't start using the new card details until very close to the expiry date, when the holder is more likely to have activated the new card.

Interestingly, I bought stuff off Amazon yesterday (one of the two specific companies that JLFS said received the update file) with the existing card - no issues. JLFS appear to have got stitched up by Uber - that's no excuse though - they are complicit, by sending the details out to to Uber in the first place.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Any service/provider you've signed an ongoing agreement with is provided the details basically. Its also how the card-cancelling trick to avoid car hire damages or speeding fines doesn't work - they are able to get the new number from the provider


Amazon at least do not use any updated details normally (you are made re-enter them) but its possible they get them for ongoing subscriptions

Yeah, but Uber is not a regular supplier of anything. It's a transaction by transaction contract. Why Uber, and not my local Chinese restaurant?

 

[Greavsey]

I used to work in the industry and this is exactly what happens as described by Goldstone1976. It is meant mainly as a positive customer experience so that you don't have to remember everywhere you have your card details on file, e.g. magazine subscription or insurance services etc. I genuinely don't know why that would be a problem? You can't rely on a card expiring to stop your spending - take control of your own finances!

 

[Goldstone1976]

I can believe that's what you were told, but if this was the case I would never have to enter my new card number into Amazon, which I do. It just doesn't sound right.

Yes, you would! I have to enter the new details into my Uber (& Amazon) account. The transaction was declined. The issue isn't about whether I was defrauded (I haven't been); it's about: How did Uber get my new card details to even try the transaction? Turns out, it's because JLFS sent them the new details. I got to a level 4 manager at JLFS precisely because I kept asking the previous people: "Can you explain how Uber have got the new expiry date of my card, when I haven't given it to them?". The junior people couldn't; the level 4 manager could.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

OK, I can see the value of that for ongoing expenses. So, maybe it's true for, say, Amazon Prime, but not for ad-hoc purchases, I don't know.

 

[Goldstone1976]

I used to work in the industry and this is exactly what happens as described by Goldstone1976. It is meant mainly as a positive customer experience so that you don't have to remember everywhere you have your card details on file, e.g. magazine subscription or insurance services etc. I genuinely don't know why that would be a problem? You can't rely on a card expiring to stop your spending - take control of your own finances!

Thanks for the confirmation about the facts.

Why is it a problem? Uber tried to use the new card three times (for one transaction), two weeks before my existing card expired. JLFS declined the transaction three times (and didn't tell me). Uber told me on the third transaction.

How am I supposed to know which suppliers are going to upload the new details, when?

The bottom line is, as I implied in the title, and specified in my OP, effectively (for some transactions from certain big customers of the issuer) your credit card does not expire at the end of the expiry month, but shortly after you've received the replacement card. That's ok, if the issuer tells you that. They don't. Perhaps they should.

 

[Springal]

Use Apple pay then it automatically updates to the most current card details

 

[Goldstone1976]

Use Apple pay then it automatically updates to the most current card details

The card that was declined IS a current card!