O/T Are there any engineers on here who could give a bit of advice/guidance?

[spongy]

I've just been reading the degree thread and it's kind of related to my position.

I've been in engineering to some extent for 15 years.

Firstly setting operating CNC punchpresses.

For the last 5 I've been setting/running CNC lasers. For 2 of those I've also been setting/operating CNC BrakePresses. And am just beginning to get to grips with a CNC mill and starting to dabble and teach myself CNC programming which is what I want to do. I know the machines, how they work and what they're capable of. I can read engineering drawings and make components and am pretty good at finishing although it's not my niche discipline.

I've been applying for better jobs and to move up in the world but am constantly being overlooked for graduates with degrees and it's really beginning to hack me off.

I've got lots of experience and consider myself a great worker who is dependable but the lack of education is, I believe, holding me back.

So much so that at the age of 37 I'm just finishing an apprenticeship in manufacturing engineering. Completed a level 2 with distinction and will finish level 3 with distinction across the board. But it's still not enough and am considering asking to do a HNC/D engineering qualification through work but it's day release and will take an estimated 4 years to complete. It's asking a lot as I normally work 7am-7pm as need the overtime every month. And a 20 month daughter old I dont get to see as much as I want to as I'm only home 15 minutes before bed time.

My home/work life balance is crap and really want to spend more time at home with my Mrs and little girl. The only way I can do that is by earning more money as the basic wage so I can cut out some overtime and work normal hours.

It will be hard as I hardly get any time at home to study as little'un is constantly on the go and as I spend so long at work I want to spend my time at home with the family not buried in books studying after a 12 hour working day, I've managed it so far but a HNC/D will be a lot more work.

After the last guy left my boss held loads of interviews for his replacement and settled for a young lad who had just graduated with a 2:1 degree in engineering. He was bloody useless. Just couldn't get to grips with the machines. Nothing really seemed to sink in. Was bloody lazy and was a messy worker, workshops like ours are dirty enough as they are so there was no need to be as messy as he was, he broke several verniers and ruined our measuring equipment, only emptied the bin once a week regardless of how full it was, and ignored a lot of the training we gave as he thought he knew better having a degree. This meant he continually made crap that took a lot of time to put right. And for some reason it was us experienced guys that took the flack for not training him properly as in my bosses eyes he was the golden boy and new protégé.

This young lad stayed for 6 months and has since left, for the kind of job that I'm after. Makes me feel sick and frustrated. I'm trying so bloody hard to get somewhere but am continually fighting an uphill battle against these fresh faced, wet behind the ears graduates who don't actually have a clue about what a days work actually entails.

At the end of the day is it worth starting an HNC at my age? I won't qualify until I'm 41. Although I will have another 4 years experience under my belt. Will it really improve my chances of moving up at that age? I'll still be fighting against these graduates who are more educated but know a hell of a lot less about the job than me.

I'm at a bit of a crossroads and could do with a bit of advice from anyone in the field to help.

I know engineering/manufacturing is struggling generally but is there too many people for not enough jobs? Is this why companies can be very fussy as to who they hire with new graduates and redundant/experienced engineers all applying for the same few jobs?

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

just wanted to bounce this thread and best of luck what ever you chose,always stay open to anything...

 

[Taybha]

Not sure if its your cup of tea but try the southern rail website or GTR as its now known , every now and then they advertise and with your experience you should be ok , just apply and wait as sometimes they take ages to reply but they do reply . Good luck

 

[Mr Smggles]

I know it's immoral, but could you just lie and say you have a degree when apply for a job? Surely comparing a graduate with no experience wouldn't get a job over someone with a "degree" and 15 years experience. How often are people asked to produce their certificates of education when getting a job anywhere other than a large corporation?

 

[Ned]

I Completed my HND in Electrical /Electronic Engineering in 2014 at the age of 46. It took me four years "part time" study (be prepared to spend almost twic as much time in the evenings & weekends doing homework as you spend at college).
My employer did sponsor me through college when fees were a lot less than now (they increased from £149 per unit to £450 to per unit) but I still had to make up my hours during the rest of the week.(The only condition for sponsorship was I stayed with the company for two years after qualification to avoid having to repay my fees.)
Would I do this again? Yes, part of me still considers going on to do a degree (work place learning 2 years).
Has it helped my career yes my earnings have improved, the type of work I am given is more challenging & fulfilling with a promotion on the horizon.
If your employer is willing to support you & recognizes the potential you have coupled with the wealth of specific product & process knowledge you already have (that a new starter needs time to assimilate) he should know it's a win win situation.
Plus at 41 you're not over the hill & still have 26 plus years of working life left if you did retire at the correct age. We have a good percentage of engineers who are working well beyond retirement age.
I would say you have nothing to lose by doing the course if you can persuade your boss to sponsor you, which he can get help with from the government, but ultimately the choice is yours & you need to talk it through with your partner as you will definitely need her support & understanding, especially when assignment deadlines & exams are getting close.
Whatever you decide i wish you all the very best & great respect for the effort you put in to support your family. Keep your chin up buddy.

P.S. Don't lie about your qualifications to an employer, inevitably you'll get found out & the consequences will be long lasting.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

I did a degree as a mature student - 5 years, 2 nights a week, started when I was 27
Had full time job and very young family / mortgage etc and it needed some serious compromise on social and time management.

But I ended up with a 2:1 and my career really kicked-on from there - no regrets ....

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

I know it's immoral, but could you just lie and say you have a degree when apply for a job?

Imagine the pilot of your holiday destination aircraft LYING about his pilot qualification ....

No, not a good idea !

 

[sant andreu]

You've got to weigh up how tolerable/safe the option of continuing in your current position is, cos the alternative of studying would mean less money and less time with the family. If the current situation means it's a necessity though, so be it.
Good luck

 

[dazzer6666]

I know it's immoral, but could you just lie and say you have a degree when apply for a job? Surely comparing a graduate with no experience wouldn't get a job over someone with a "degree" and 15 years experience. How often are people asked to produce their certificates of education when getting a job anywhere other than a large corporation?

Well, it would mean instant dismissal if you're found out in my world (admittedly a large corporation) with a reference that would probably state 'gross misconduct' - that's if you'd get through the pre-employment screening process in the first place. Many firms have now outsourced pre-employment screening to dedicated agencies who do actually check certificates (I had an issue when I joined my present firm as I don't have my A level certificates - I never collected them from the college. It was over 30 years ago but the initial stance was that my application wouldn't be able to proceed without them)

 

[spongy]

Thanks for the replies, especially [MENTION=511]Ned[/MENTION] very helpful indeed.

I asked to do my current course and my boss was very open to it and has sponsored it. Although he may be regretting it a tad at the minute as we're so busy and can't really afford to have me out of the workshop at the moment. I'm at college today and he's already called to ask me to come back to work for the afternoon instead of being here.

If I approach him about the next level I'm pretty sure he would be open to it and would sponsor again. I can't afford to pay for it myself at the £450 per unit. Or lose a days money to put myself through it so it is very dependent on him sponsoring.

The tough bit would be trying to get all the work done at home. It's hard now finishing a 7am-7pm shift, getting home, quick dinner, bath the little one, washing up and making lunches for next day etc. Only get an hour to myself in the evenings for possible study.

I'm not sure I can dedicate that much time to it is the crux of the matter.

But I do actually enjoy my job (most of the time), I just love machines and making them work. But I want to get into the programming office, we have such a low staff turnover so my opportunities to get in there are somewhat limited and a further qualification will certainly help. We have some cracking blokes in the company and there's always some banter and piss taking going on along with the unbelievable stress of trying the work out the door at present.

Decisions decisions.

 

[spongy]

I also dropped out if education after college with a business qualification, got a job at a large company and hated it. If I'd known I didn't like office environments I wouldn't have done it and gone down the engineering route sooner.

This course would also be more of a case putting some wrongs right. But I've left it late.

I know I'm intelligent enough to do it and with my experience it hopefully wouldn't be too painful.

It's an age old problem. I enjoy what I do and know where I want to go but want to be paid more for it basically.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

The little one (i have one coming along in july-another girl) makes things awkward because you do want to spend time with them,but think 10 years from now and ask will whatever you do now be worthwhile for all concerned?

btw how many days do you do 7-7 shifts?

 

[spongy]

The little one (i have one coming along in july-another girl) makes things awkward because you do want to spend time with them,but think 10 years from now and ask will whatever you do now be worthwhile for all concerned?

btw how many days do you do 7-7 shifts?

If I wasn't at college my basic hours at work would be 08.00-16.30 mon-thurs and 08.00-13.30 Friday.

But because we're always busy (a great thing in manufacturing) we do 07.00-19.00 mon-thurs and 07.00-13.30 Friday although I normally stay on for as long as I can be arsed. I leave early for evening games though! Can't miss those!

We've also been running a nightshift almost constantly for the last 2 years and the 12 hour shifts for the last 3 years.

Because of the regular overtime money I've come to rely on it in my wages but since my daughter arrived I want to drop the hours but can't lose the money so a catch22.

Trying to figure out how to up the wages to current level but drop the hours I have to work.

Getting better qualified and moving up is the logical step to me.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

If I wasn't at college my basic hours at work would be 08.00-16.30 mon-thurs and 08.00-13.30 Friday.

But because we're always busy (a great thing in manufacturing) we do 07.00-19.00 mon-thurs and 07.00-13.30 Friday although I normally stay on for as long as I can be arsed. I leave early for evening games though! Can't miss those!

We've also been running a nightshift almost constantly for the last 2 years and the 12 hour shifts for the last 3 years.

Because of the regular overtime money I've come to rely on it in my wages but since my daughter arrived I want to drop the hours but can't lose the money so a catch22.

Trying to figure out how to up the wages to current level but drop the hours I have to work.

Getting better qualified and moving up is the logical step to me.

I share you lack of time concerns i start at 7am and finish from 6pm to 7pm monday to friday and saturdays are optional 7am until 1pm/4pm (dependant on how busy) this with an hour each way commute.....basically i work 48 and up to 60 hours a week averaging at 48..

The good thing is you enjoy your work and that is key,getting used to the money side of things is there any way you could cut back in any area to help reduce you need for the hours?

I think you are perhaps leaning towards getting the training and from what you have told so us far would be the best thing (not short term) but in the medium to longer term,pay for it now and reap the rewards further down the line would be my advice...