O/T: anybody been to China?

[Bakero]

Please do not waste your money. I have to travel to China with my job. I have been to all the main cities, and I would never go back if I had the choice.
Hong Kong is nothing like main land China. It's a country in itself. It has a massive expat community and definitely worth a visit. But no more than a few days.
The good thing about Hong Kong is you can fly to much nicer destinations, especially Thailand and Singapore.
If I were you, I'd forget about China and head to Thailand. The food is far better (Chinese food in china is nothing like you'd get in your local takeaway), the people a nicer, and it's far more beautiful.
If however you like rude people. Lots of smog. Soulless cities and disgusting food, go to China!

The food in China is likely to be 10x better than what you'd get from your local takeaway and 1000x more varied. Not to mention a helluva lot cheaper.

And since when has a large expat community been a tourist draw?

I'll give you the rudeness though. Manners are a little different over there.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Vietnam though, Vietnam is AMAZING. Go there

 

[Bakero]

It was back in 1993, so I can't speak about any modern stuff, but I spent 3 months backpacking around China. Four months if you count Hong Kong and Macau, which were still British and Portuguese then. Five months if you include Taiwan,

Loved Shanghai (albeit back then, the whole skyscraper area on the east side of the river was still mudflats), Hangzhou and Suzhou were quite nice, liked Nanjing, Qufu and Tai'an were OK (except we climbed the Taishan holy mountain in the fog and saw eff all from the top). Like others said, Beijing is a bit meh and enjoyment depends on the weather and smog (a bit of rain can actually be good for flushing some of the pollution out of the air). I was a bit underwhelmed by both the Great Wall and the Terracotta army in Xian (probably bought into the hype too much, and was expecting more). My favourite areas were all much further away from the east coast, but they are harder to get to if you don't have the luxury of time like I did. Xiahe, Songpan, Dali, and Lijiang are all breathtaking. Leshan's 'big Buddha' has to be seen to be believed (you can hold a picnic on his big toenail). Chengdu and Kunming are no more than OK. Guilin is horrible (granted, my judgment was swayed by having nowhere to sleep and spending 9 hours sitting on the steps of the railway station waiting for the first bus out), but the limestone karst area around it is jaw-dropping. I stayed two weeks in Yangshuo, about two hours by bus south from Guilin, and it really is a beautiful spot.

Xiahe, Lijiang and Yangshuo if I had to pick a top three.

Language was occasionally an issue, but you can get a long way with mime. In a lot of restaurants with no English menus I got into the habit of walking into the kitchen, pointing at some nice-looking veg or some meat with not too many flies on, and then making the international sign of the stir-fry by waving my arms about a bit. Perfectly acceptable, and I never failed to end up with a decent plate of food.

Lijang was nice but a little bit Disneyfied when I went in 2011ish. Still worth a visit but Dali seemed more authentic.

 

[Trufflehound]

Lijang was nice but a little bit Disneyfied when I went in 2011ish. Still worth a visit but Dali seemed more authentic.

Interesting how times change. In 1993 when I was there, I would have said it was the other way around. Lijiang was an authentic friendly untouched local town. Dali was full of 'traveller shops' selling those ridiculous multicoloured baggy trousers ('Abnormalehosen' we used to call them as they were always worn by German backpackers with no dress sense), and "traveller" cafes for the unadventurous "travellers" to sit around eating banana pancakes (so they don't have to eat the local muck) and boasting about how long they've been "travelling" - much as I think they still do on Khao San Road in Bangkok.

 

[Bakero]

Interesting how times change. In 1993 when I was there, I would have said it was the other way around. Lijiang was an authentic friendly untouched local town. Dali was full of 'traveller shops' selling those ridiculous multicoloured baggy trousers ('Abnormalehosen' we used to call them as they were always worn by German backpackers with no dress sense), and "traveller" cafes for the unadventurous "travellers" to sit around eating banana pancakes (so they don't have to eat the local muck) and boasting about how long they've been "travelling" - much as I think they still do on Khao San Road in Bangkok.

Now that you remind me there was still a bit of that in Dali but it wasn't overwhelming. Lijang was swamped with tour groups at times. It seemed like all the locals had been priced out so the old town was given over purely to tourism.

 

[Trufflehound]

Now that you remind me there was still a bit of that in Dali but it wasn't overwhelming. Lijang was swamped with tour groups at times. It seemed like all the locals had been priced out so the old town was given over purely to tourism.

I've just looked and see Lijiang has an airport now. That would explain it. There were no tour groups back in 93 as it was bloody hard to reach (about 15 hours in by bus from the nearest railway station, and 10 hours by bus out to Dali). I guess the roads have probably improved too.

 

[Bakero]

I've just looked and see Lijiang has an airport now. That would explain it. There were no tour groups back in 93 as it was bloody hard to reach (about 15 hours in by bus from the nearest railway station, and 10 hours by bus out to Dali). I guess the roads have probably improved too.

The curse of Unesco.

 

[Wan Chai]

I live in Hong Kong. China is huge and incredibly diverse. If you're looking for cities then Shanghai is your best choice of the mainland cities. If you're looking for countryside or something different then there are places like Guilin, Xian (terracotta warriors), Yunnan, Zhouzhang, and many others. Hong Kong is much easier, has great life and (surprisingly) is probably one of the best hiking destinations in the world.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I'd echo the general thrust of the posts so far - a few things that are worth seeing; a couple of major problems (smog!); overall, I'm not sure it's worth a special trip. Japan though - now that's worth a special trip...

I'd love to go to Japan: the Welshman isn't so bothered I like the idea that it's a very Westernised country, and yet culturally a million miles away from any other Westernised state (maybe except South Korea). I also like the fact that they have vending machines selling pretty much everything, and their technologically advanced toilets

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Vietnam though, Vietnam is AMAZING. Go there

Went in 2015. Did Hanoi, Halong Bay, and HCMC, flying over to Cambodia in the middle. Loved it. Somebody mentioned Chinese traffic as being an issue: to be honest, having spent time in both Hanoi & HCMC, I learned pretty quickly that the only way to cross their roads on foot is to just stride confidently out into the traffic, and let the millions of mopeds avoid you

There are other places in Vietnam I'd like to have seen (Hoi An, Hue, for example), but probably won't go back any time soon just for those.

 

[Tokyohands]

Did Vietnam in June and went to Hoi An, which really was great.

 

[Trufflehound]

Went in 2015. Did Hanoi, Halong Bay, and HCMC, flying over to Cambodia in the middle. Loved it. Somebody mentioned Chinese traffic as being an issue: to be honest, having spent time in both Hanoi & HCMC, I learned pretty quickly that the only way to cross their roads on foot is to just stride confidently out into the traffic, and let the millions of mopeds avoid you

There are other places in Vietnam I'd like to have seen (Hoi An, Hue, for example), but probably won't go back any time soon just for those.

Crossing Vietnamese roads is way more stressful than crossing Chinese roads. If you could handle them, China will be a doddle.

 

[Napier]

I live in Hong Kong. China is huge and incredibly diverse. If you're looking for cities then Shanghai is your best choice of the mainland cities. If you're looking for countryside or something different then there are places like Guilin, Xian (terracotta warriors), Yunnan, Zhouzhang, and many others. Hong Kong is much easier, has great life and (surprisingly) is probably one of the best hiking destinations in the world.

The Maclehose Trail - an absolutely stunning 100km hike. I did the Trailwalker back in the early 90s when I lived in HK. A great experience, but totally knackering.

 

[lost in london]

It was back in 1993, so I can't speak about any modern stuff, but I spent 3 months backpacking around China. Four months if you count Hong Kong and Macau, which were still British and Portuguese then. Five months if you include Taiwan,

Loved Shanghai (albeit back then, the whole skyscraper area on the east side of the river was still mudflats), Hangzhou and Suzhou were quite nice, liked Nanjing, Qufu and Tai'an were OK (except we climbed the Taishan holy mountain in the fog and saw eff all from the top). Like others said, Beijing is a bit meh and enjoyment depends on the weather and smog (a bit of rain can actually be good for flushing some of the pollution out of the air). I was a bit underwhelmed by both the Great Wall and the Terracotta army in Xian (probably bought into the hype too much, and was expecting more). My favourite areas were all much further away from the east coast, but they are harder to get to if you don't have the luxury of time like I did. Xiahe, Songpan, Dali, and Lijiang are all breathtaking. Leshan's 'big Buddha' has to be seen to be believed (you can hold a picnic on his big toenail). Chengdu and Kunming are no more than OK. Guilin is horrible (granted, my judgment was swayed by having nowhere to sleep and spending 9 hours sitting on the steps of the railway station waiting for the first bus out), but the limestone karst area around it is jaw-dropping. I stayed two weeks in Yangshuo, about two hours by bus south from Guilin, and it really is a beautiful spot.

Xiahe, Lijiang and Yangshuo if I had to pick a top three.

Language was occasionally an issue, but you can get a long way with mime. In a lot of restaurants with no English menus I got into the habit of walking into the kitchen, pointing at some nice-looking veg or some meat with not too many flies on, and then making the international sign of the stir-fry by waving my arms about a bit. Perfectly acceptable, and I never failed to end up with a decent plate of food.

You've just brought back a lot of good memories - I did six months teaching in China in 98 / 99 then some time travelling around. That massive massive Buddha was incredible, I seem to remember the town near it (Chongqing?) being a dump though! Yangshuo and moon rock (my memory's failing me a bit here, think that was what it was called) was great, loved our time in the backpacker cafes and pottering about on bikes. Looking at pictures on Yangshuo online now though and how's it's been developed out I think a lot of that magic to the place may have gone.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Language was occasionally an issue, but you can get a long way with mime.

Prefer Google Translate myself. Always found it easier than trying to order a stir-fry through the medium of interpretive dance

 

[Trufflehound]

You've just brought back a lot of good memories - I did six months teaching in China in 98 / 99 then some time travelling around. That massive massive Buddha was incredible, I seem to remember the town near it (Chongqing?) being a dump though! Yangshuo and moon rock (my memory's failing me a bit here, think that was what it was called) was great, loved our time in the backpacker cafes and pottering about on bikes. Looking at pictures on Yangshuo online now though and how's it's been developed out I think a lot of that magic to the place may have gone.

Chongqing and Chengdu are both nearby to Leshan. I went via the latter and never made it to Chongqing - doesn't sound like I missed much. Chengdu was a nightmare to leave. Spent 8 nights in the legendary Black Coffee Hotel* just trying to buy a train ticket to anywhere else as the black market had a total monopoly. Getting out of Kunming a few weeks later was nearly as hard.


*Bizarrely, I just Googled 'Black Coffee Hotel Chengdu' to see if it still exists (fortunately, I don't think it does) and the second hit is a post of mine on here from 11 years ago in a thread entitled "What's the worst hotel you've ever stayed in?"

 

[Trufflehound]

Prefer Google Translate myself. Always found it easier than trying to order a stir-fry through the medium of interpretive dance

I was there in 1993. There was no internet then (or at least, none that normal folk had access to), let alone Google.

On the plus side, I know how to say 'aubergine' in Chinese ("Chee-air-zurr" or something similar)...

 

[BlockDpete]

Would be interested to know how pollution in Shanghai and Bejing compare with Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh.

Spent several days in Hanoi a couple of years ago, and did notice the poor air quality , especially when it was hot. Didn't stop me enjoying the place though, you just have to adjust a bit, as it gets quite tiring.

 

[colinz]

Chongqing and Chengdu are both nearby to Leshan. I went via the latter and never made it to Chongqing - doesn't sound like I missed much. Chengdu was a nightmare to leave. Spent 8 nights in the legendary Black Coffee Hotel* just trying to buy a train ticket to anywhere else as the black market had a total monopoly. Getting out of Kunming a few weeks later was nearly as hard.


*Bizarrely, I just Googled 'Black Coffee Hotel Chengdu' to see if it still exists (fortunately, I don't think it does) and the second hit is a post of mine on here from 11 years ago in a thread entitled "What's the worst hotel you've ever stayed in?"

I think I may have stayed in the same place. Cold draughty soulless concrete type building. Remember my washing being returned to me all wet and screwed up in a pile.
Then a teenage girl who looked like one of Mao's Red Guards, screaming abuse back at me when I complained.

My mate and I were about to organise flights out of Chengdu because we just couldn't book a train.
Another traveller tipped us off, some flash hotel where you could by a ticket soft sleeper for Chinese price.

Shame really because Chengdu itself was quite a nice City with it's riverside eateries.

 

[lost in london]

I think I may have stayed in the same place. Cold draughty soulless concrete type building. Remember my washing being returned to me all wet and screwed up in a pile.
Then a teenage girl who looked like one of Mao's Red Guards, screaming abuse back at me when I complained.

My mate and I were about to organise flights out of Chengdu because we just couldn't book a train.
Another traveller tipped us off, some flash hotel where you could by a ticket soft sleeper for Chinese price.

Shame really because Chengdu itself was quite a nice City with it's riverside eateries.

They all blur a bit after such a long time, but I seem to remember a nice park in Chengdu with some weird little monorail over the zoo. Is Chengdu the hot pot place? Awesome things. Remember eating raw fat by mistake.