Now he's settled in is Hughton doing that much better than Hyypia?

[derbyseagull]

I think relegation was nailed on with Sami , we now have a fighting chance with Hughton. Some of the players (including loanees) we have are not good enough and have to be replaced.

I think that sums it up. I am still of the view you get more with CMS and his goals record is better than Best. CMS worries defenders and I am sure with O'Grady's hold up play would be worth a spell together. I have not seen anything to see Best as the answer but have been more impressed with Baldock when not played out of position. The way we play with one lone striker limits our goalscoring opportunites. We see team after team pack our box when they attack. Often when we are pressing we have may one or maybe two in the box. This happened on more than one occassion late night.

 

[symyjym]

We have generally played better than our opposition under Sami, creating plenty of opportunities, not taking them, and giving away goals. With 1 point in 3 games under Hughton it is pretty much the same.

All it shows is that when a team is being rebuilt, there is no magical cure that can suddenly make them great overnight. Building good teams takes years of the same players playing with each other.

All the clubs in the top half of the table have squads with continuity, and even when new managers takeover, they generally takeover a prebuilt team. We have had to start from scratch so it was always going to be difficult for Sami, and it will be just as difficult for Hughton.

If we had won all the games when we outperformed the opposition this season we would be fighting for the playoffs, but player errors on goals conceded and failing to take our opportunities have defined this season.

 

[mike79]

Hughton is arguably the most experienced manager we have ever had - a number of promotions under his belt, campaigns in the Premiership and rather unlucky to lose a few of his jobs. Throw in the most expensively assembled and handsomely rewarded squad and you'd hope we'd do rather better than scrape fourth from bottom. But, this is football, and clearly there's a lot gone on behind the scenes which is resulting is some pretty timid displays. Players out of contract, loan signings not being too ar*ed etc etc.

I honestly believe that by hook or by crook, Hughton will keep us up - but don't expect it to be pretty and in what's a pretty poor league they'll be a few more games like last night.

What worries me is another summer of rebuilding...then the old problem of new players settling in etc etc, dallying around with transfers, new players not having a pre-season. What would be lovely would be a string of results to get us a few points clear and start the process of getting ready for next season in March / April - not going to happen though is it.

Only been promoted once with Newcastle who were perhaps the best ever championship team.

Only been sacked twice, perhaps unlucky to be sacked by Newcastle, incredibly lucky not have been sacked up to a year earlier at Norwich

Only started managing in 2009 when he was 50 so not sure he's particularly experienced.

However he has been lucky that all 3 previous jobs were with teams who were in the Premier League the season before

 

[Stat Brother]

At what point though does Hughton start to get 'Samied'? (seriously not faux [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION] unrest)

It's fairly safe to say we'll be at Wednesday looking for another 0-0.
If that goes breasts up and/or Brum turn us over, Hughton will be in the midst of a run considerably worse than anything Sami dished up.

 

[Ernest]

At what point though does Hughton start to get 'Samied'? (seriously not faux [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION] unrest)

It's fairly safe to say we'll be at Wednesday looking for another 0-0.
If that goes breasts up and/or Brum turn us over, Hughton will be in the midst of a run considerably worse than anything Sami dished up.

Leeds at home without a win this month may hear some words of discontent but to whom they are directed is a moot point

 

[Meade's Ball]

I was never too down in the dumps under Hyypia, but there's a greater certainty to things with the Hught; a certainty you get the feeling the players know, even if they don't carry instructions out to perfection. With his experience, there ought be trust in his ideas, and no thought of any madcappery to them. From the Saturday game, I thought we played some very good football, keeping to the notion of being a non-route-one side, as hoof-happy Forest seemed to be, but, as it's seemed all season, we've been without that mostly uncrackable spine that had us strongly positioned for a few years with more clean sheets and scraped-to victories when not playing well. It's a disappointment that characters like Ulloa and Bridcutt and Upson haven't been replaced - and of course that in goal for all we like Stockdale as a person and his general spirt, his decision-making has directly cost us games in a way that the Koosh simply didn't and wouldn't - but this is what we have and the Hught now has to deal with. It's not a relegation squad, as far as I see it. I have faith that the Hught will give the players enough confidence and purpose to play like we did against Forest and not throw points away.
Then, over the summer, we buy a leader or two, and a striker, and we're back into being a top-half side.

 

[rippleman]

Sadly it very much was Burkes fault. After all this is a man who signed Toko and "chased" Ballsack all summer. Who only agreed to sign Ward at the last min. If we had got in earlier he would have signed. With literally ten days to go we had Casper as No1 and CMS and Fenelon as our strike force. It was a car crash and the buck stops with him. Then as Aspinall said on the radio that scouts identified players that Burke just ignored or didnt even consider. The list of Burkes failings go on. And on.

I do agree. Burke's failings do go on and on. But who let him keep on getting it wrong for so long? Put friendship over business and this is what happens! Had Burke not been best pals with TB would he have been allowed to demonstrate his ineptitude and incompetence for so long?

Just a thought

 

[Biscuit]

Lualua tackles back sucessfully better than any of our forward players. I think he is more suited to the central role as he can kick with both feet and go either way. On the touchline his change of direction is limited by the exactly that, the touchline.

Couldn't disagree more.

LuaLua's strength is his speed and his ability to get behind the back line. He should be played on a wing and allowed to take players on. This plays to his strengths and gives the whole team someone to look for when our backs are against the wall. Playing him in the middle completely nullifies him. It's happened every single time he's played in the middle yet when he's on a wing he's effective.

I hear what you're saying, and in theory it's sound, but the truth is LuaLua is effective on the wing and useless in the middle.

 

[Ernest]

Sadly it very much was Burkes fault. After all this is a man who signed Toko and "chased" Ballsack all summer. Who only agreed to sign Ward at the last min. If we had got in earlier he would have signed. With literally ten days to go we had Casper as No1 and CMS and Fenelon as our strike force. It was a car crash and the buck stops with him. Then as Aspinall said on the radio that scouts identified players that Burke just ignored or didnt even consider. The list of Burkes failings go on. And on.

Who said judge us at the end of the transfer window ? Burke has set this club back at least 5 years and god knows at what cost

 

[Icy Gull]

At what point though does Hughton start to get 'Samied'? (seriously not faux [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION] unrest)

It's fairly safe to say we'll be at Wednesday looking for another 0-0.
If that goes breasts up and/or Brum turn us over, Hughton will be in the midst of a run considerably worse than anything Sami dished up.

Hence the point of the thread, I don't see any improvement at all. We have won a game quite well, won with a bit of luck in another one, lost a couple we shouldn't have and gone to Cardiff settling for a draw before a ball was kicked. Safe to say I am not a fan yet. I am not calling for his head but I see nothing to make me think life for the Albion this season is going to get any easier than it has been since day one

 

[symyjym]

I was never too down in the dumps under Hyypia, but there's a greater certainty to things with the Hught; a certainty you get the feeling the players know, even if they don't carry instructions out to perfection. With his experience, there ought be trust in his ideas, and no thought of any madcappery to them. From the Saturday game, I thought we played some very good football, keeping to the notion of being a non-route-one side, as hoof-happy Forest seemed to be, but, as it's seemed all season, we've been without that mostly uncrackable spine that had us strongly positioned for a few years with more clean sheets and scraped-to victories when not playing well. It's a disappointment that characters like Ulloa and Bridcutt and Upson haven't been replaced - and of course that in goal for all we like Stockdale as a person and his general spirt, his decision-making has directly cost us games in a way that the Koosh simply didn't and wouldn't - but this is what we have and the Hught now has to deal with. It's not a relegation squad, as far as I see it. I have faith that the Hught will give the players enough confidence and purpose to play like we did against Forest and not throw points away.
Then, over the summer, we buy a leader or two, and a striker, and we're back into being a top-half side.

My disappointment from last night was Best, and as far as I was concerned he was brought here because Hughton has worked with him and understood how he plays. He didn't give us anything, not even breaking a sweat to make up for it.

 

[RexCathedra]

It's almost as if tried-ness, tested-ness, British-ness, and experience aren't enough....

 

[Acker79]

Genuine question. We are harder to beat but less likely to win

Hyypia's losing percentage is 41%, Hughton's is 50%. Are we really harder to beat if it is happening at a higher frequency? And win Percentages are 14% Hyypia, 33% Hughton. Seems, on a small Hughton sample, we are more likely to win, and more likely to lose than we were under Hyypia.

Hyypia...18 pts from 22 games...average per game ( 0.82 )....end of season.....38pts....Relegated.
( Jones 4 pts from 2 games.....you can do the maths )
Hughton...8 pts from 6 games....average per game ( 1.33 )....end of season.....61 pts....Comfortable survival.

I can still see the problems we have but Hughton will keep us up.

That's one way of looking at it. Another is to point out you are comparing (as I did above) a 6 game sample, with a 22 game sample. If we compare like for like we get:

Hyypia first 6
W 2
D 1
L 3
F 8
A 8

Hughton first 6
W 2
D 1
L 3
F 6
A 7

Two wins and a draw is 7 points, not 8, for an average of 1.17 per game, a season total of 54, which wasn't enough to stay up at the end of the 2012/13 season, but that's the highest points total for a relegated team since the championship took its current form.

Hyypia didn't continue with such a "successful" pts/game rate. It would be wrong to assume Hughton will, from such a small sample.

He is not settled in yet. He is still getting his team together.

For me he's doing better by simple virtue of the fact that, when I turn up to watch us play, I don't have that horrible gnawing apathy in my gut about an inevitable loss.

In short, he's given me hope which is something SH never did.

I would say this is my position, with the clarification that the hope is for enjoying the game, not necessarily a win.

 

[phazza]

Genuine question. We are harder to beat but less likely to win

To me it's looking like the problem is the quality of players we have.

I am not optimistic about the rest of the season and I think Hughton plays pretty negative football. If you remember with Hyypia in the first few games, at least we showed attacking intent even if we did ship goals.

The end result is not that different at the moment...

i agree.
i think the good spell we had was at the wrong time. had things looked as desperate as they are now (which is where we were end of december) we would heve signed some more quality to keep us up. just a thought!!

 

[Hampster Gull]

He is not "settled" yet, give him a chance.

 

[jimbob5]

To be sherioush. The win at home to Tractor was a bonush only to be more than undone by 2 unexpected loshes. Yeshterdays game was as tench as you can get in the shircumstances. Thay could so easily have gone into melt dow after the 2 revershes. itsh goner be tough but maybeez thatch not sutch a bad thing for building caracter.

 

[Acker79]

Interesting stats on the SSN info bar for the leeds v millwall game:

Leeds won three of last four after previously getting 2 wins in 18

Millwall won their last two after previously getting 2 wins in 22

Would sami have seen such results if he stayed? I'm sure some people will say of course not, but obviously we'll never know.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Interesting stats on the SSN info bar for the leeds v millwall game:

Leeds won three of last four after previously getting 2 wins in 18

Millwall won their last two after previously getting 2 wins in 22

Would sami have seen such results if he stayed? I'm sure some people will say of course not, but obviously we'll never know.

He would have got us promoted