[Albion] Norwich's position on 19th January 2014 under Hughton

[Bold Seagull]

You, your thought process and your opinions are an absolute mess, FYI. Just my opinion though, although I've "heard" lots of other think the same. Hopefully that's not too "heartbreaking" for you, you epic fanny.

There's a crackpot to be found on every thread on NSC

He has made sense on another thread to be fair....just doesn't realise it's him yet.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

I really hope we “have a go” at Chelsea on Saturday.

Perhaps starting exactly like we did against Man United at Old Trafford would be good...?

Hopefully there is someone at the club who tells Chris Hughton what to do.

 

[Albion Dan]

My take is this. Essentially the standard outside of the top 7/8 teams the standard of player and football is not much better than the Championship. Managers like Hughton/Warnock/Bruce/Allardyce et al do very well in the Championship because they are tactically disciplined and get the most out of technically limited players through a structurally sound base that most can understand and replicate. Let's call them 'pragmatists'.

But this approach will generally founder against the top 7/8 teams in the Premier league. It is because the overarching mentality of their teams is tactics/caution/mentality/discipline, and the psychological approach to games against the top 6 is not to lose, or not to lose by many to gain a relative goal difference advantage to their peers from those matches. The gamble being that they will take more points from their peers because of the same disciplines that brought success in the Championship and in previous PL season. The aim is to be the best of the rest, the best pragmatist if you will.

Allardyce's record against the top 6 is terrible, and he is honest about approaching the season in 6 match blocks where he targets a certain number of points in each. He writes-off top 6 games, viewing any points against them as a bonus. Hughton is the same, he is on record last week as saying 'games against the top 6 teams 'don't matter'.

So, players - for me - are then part of a mentality that approaches top 7/8 games with exactly the wrong psychology if they are to get a win.

Eddie Howe at Bournemouth and Wagner at Huddersfield have a different mindset - it is 'sod the goal difference, we are going to take points off the top 7/8 and gain a march on our peers. We are going to play our way. yes we will get stuffed at times but we will also win points'. They are 'optimists'.

Saturday is a prime example of the difference in approach, I am hoping, I really am, that Hughton starts 442. Not because I am a kamikaze nutcase, but because: we need points, we need to send out a team with a positive mindset that feels it can win, we need pace up front with Baldock, Chelsea are in a bad place, and we must start brightly. Hughton's mentality will be 'keep it tight for the first half and let's see if we can grab something out of the game in the second'. This is not the way to play this match. The top 6 get better as games move into the latter stages, not worse. This is where they win, by tiring out the opposition and capitalising on mistakes.

Hughton will start 451 - let's be honest it is never really 4411 because Gross is too slow - and this will tell us all what we already know. He is a good man, a good manager but he is too cautious to get points against the top teams. He generally reacts to the other manager's substitutions rather pro-actively looks to change games, he sticks to his formation when all common sense points in the other direction and he is too respectful.

Leicester showed that a positive mental attitude conquers all, it can be ephemeral, it might be temporary and you might get spanked, But if not that, what else? Die trying, not wondering.

My hypothesis is that optimists will triumph over the oragmatists this season because the points they accrue will amount to a greater differential versus their peers than the goal difference focus of the pragmatists. The pragmatists have traditionally done well in previous seasons because the standard below the top 7/8 teams fits their approach very well. However I think times have changed because the gap to the top 6 is now so big that the premium for points gained against them carries even more significance than it ever did. This is where the key lies and this is where I think Hughton's approach is flawed. A win for us tomorrow would be bigger than any other this season, it would be worth more than three points, it would virtually guarantee survival because of the psychological impact it would have. It is bigger for us than games against those around us because everyone gets points against 'teams around them'. Not everyone gets points against the top six, and three of them would be absolutely massive.

Instinctively, we know this. He knows it, he knows that Gross should come on when we are 1-0 with 20 to go, not bring Baldock on when we are 1-0 down at the same stage, and this is where the tactical straight-jacket restricts us. The top teams want you to do that, they want you to chase with 20 to go, and that's when they win 3/4/5 - 0.

I really hope that all of the above is wrong, but I don't think it will be.

You have completely nailed my thoughts on where we are at this season and why we are at a much bigger risk of relegation with the current approach than if we would release the handbrake.

 

[Napier's Knee]

My take is this. Essentially the standard outside of the top 7/8 teams the standard of player and football is not much better than the Championship. Managers like Hughton/Warnock/Bruce/Allardyce et al do very well in the Championship because they are tactically disciplined and get the most out of technically limited players through a structurally sound base that most can understand and replicate. Let's call them 'pragmatists'.

But this approach will generally founder against the top 7/8 teams in the Premier league. It is because the overarching mentality of their teams is tactics/caution/mentality/discipline, and the psychological approach to games against the top 6 is not to lose, or not to lose by many to gain a relative goal difference advantage to their peers from those matches. The gamble being that they will take more points from their peers because of the same disciplines that brought success in the Championship and in previous PL season. The aim is to be the best of the rest, the best pragmatist if you will.

Allardyce's record against the top 6 is terrible, and he is honest about approaching the season in 6 match blocks where he targets a certain number of points in each. He writes-off top 6 games, viewing any points against them as a bonus. Hughton is the same, he is on record last week as saying 'games against the top 6 teams 'don't matter'.

So, players - for me - are then part of a mentality that approaches top 7/8 games with exactly the wrong psychology if they are to get a win.

Eddie Howe at Bournemouth and Wagner at Huddersfield have a different mindset - it is 'sod the goal difference, we are going to take points off the top 7/8 and gain a march on our peers. We are going to play our way. yes we will get stuffed at times but we will also win points'. They are 'optimists'.

Saturday is a prime example of the difference in approach, I am hoping, I really am, that Hughton starts 442. Not because I am a kamikaze nutcase, but because: we need points, we need to send out a team with a positive mindset that feels it can win, we need pace up front with Baldock, Chelsea are in a bad place, and we must start brightly. Hughton's mentality will be 'keep it tight for the first half and let's see if we can grab something out of the game in the second'. This is not the way to play this match. The top 6 get better as games move into the latter stages, not worse. This is where they win, by tiring out the opposition and capitalising on mistakes.

Hughton will start 451 - let's be honest it is never really 4411 because Gross is too slow - and this will tell us all what we already know. He is a good man, a good manager but he is too cautious to get points against the top teams. He generally reacts to the other manager's substitutions rather pro-actively looks to change games, he sticks to his formation when all common sense points in the other direction and he is too respectful.

Leicester showed that a positive mental attitude conquers all, it can be ephemeral, it might be temporary and you might get spanked, But if not that, what else? Die trying, not wondering.

My hypothesis is that optimists will triumph over the oragmatists this season because the points they accrue will amount to a greater differential versus their peers than the goal difference focus of the pragmatists. The pragmatists have traditionally done well in previous seasons because the standard below the top 7/8 teams fits their approach very well. However I think times have changed because the gap to the top 6 is now so big that the premium for points gained against them carries even more significance than it ever did. This is where the key lies and this is where I think Hughton's approach is flawed. A win for us tomorrow would be bigger than any other this season, it would be worth more than three points, it would virtually guarantee survival because of the psychological impact it would have. It is bigger for us than games against those around us because everyone gets points against 'teams around them'. Not everyone gets points against the top six, and three of them would be absolutely massive.

Instinctively, we know this. He knows it, he knows that Gross should come on when we are 1-0 with 20 to go, not bring Baldock on when we are 1-0 down at the same stage, and this is where the tactical straight-jacket restricts us. The top teams want you to do that, they want you to chase with 20 to go, and that's when they win 3/4/5 - 0.

I really hope that all of the above is wrong, but I don't think it will be.

Excellent post and spot on about Howe and Wagner - they show the way to play the top teams

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Excellent post and spot on about Howe and Wagner - they show the way to play the top teams

CH’s defensive methods might work if our players could defend corners. They clearly can’t though so I’m in the all out attack camp for Saturday. Hoping to sneak a 6-5 victory.

 

[Martlet]

My take is this. Essentially the standard outside of the top 7/8 teams the standard of player and football is not much better than the Championship. Managers like Hughton/Warnock/Bruce/Allardyce et al do very well in the Championship because they are tactically disciplined and get the most out of technically limited players through a structurally sound base that most can understand and replicate. Let's call them 'pragmatists'.

But this approach will generally founder against the top 7/8 teams in the Premier league. It is because the overarching mentality of their teams is tactics/caution/mentality/discipline, and the psychological approach to games against the top 6 is not to lose, or not to lose by many to gain a relative goal difference advantage to their peers from those matches. The gamble being that they will take more points from their peers because of the same disciplines that brought success in the Championship and in previous PL season. The aim is to be the best of the rest, the best pragmatist if you will.

Allardyce's record against the top 6 is terrible, and he is honest about approaching the season in 6 match blocks where he targets a certain number of points in each. He writes-off top 6 games, viewing any points against them as a bonus. Hughton is the same, he is on record last week as saying 'games against the top 6 teams 'don't matter'.

So, players - for me - are then part of a mentality that approaches top 7/8 games with exactly the wrong psychology if they are to get a win.

Eddie Howe at Bournemouth and Wagner at Huddersfield have a different mindset - it is 'sod the goal difference, we are going to take points off the top 7/8 and gain a march on our peers. We are going to play our way. yes we will get stuffed at times but we will also win points'. They are 'optimists'.

Saturday is a prime example of the difference in approach, I am hoping, I really am, that Hughton starts 442. Not because I am a kamikaze nutcase, but because: we need points, we need to send out a team with a positive mindset that feels it can win, we need pace up front with Baldock, Chelsea are in a bad place, and we must start brightly. Hughton's mentality will be 'keep it tight for the first half and let's see if we can grab something out of the game in the second'. This is not the way to play this match. The top 6 get better as games move into the latter stages, not worse. This is where they win, by tiring out the opposition and capitalising on mistakes.

Hughton will start 451 - let's be honest it is never really 4411 because Gross is too slow - and this will tell us all what we already know. He is a good man, a good manager but he is too cautious to get points against the top teams. He generally reacts to the other manager's substitutions rather pro-actively looks to change games, he sticks to his formation when all common sense points in the other direction and he is too respectful.

Leicester showed that a positive mental attitude conquers all, it can be ephemeral, it might be temporary and you might get spanked, But if not that, what else? Die trying, not wondering.

My hypothesis is that optimists will triumph over the oragmatists this season because the points they accrue will amount to a greater differential versus their peers than the goal difference focus of the pragmatists. The pragmatists have traditionally done well in previous seasons because the standard below the top 7/8 teams fits their approach very well. However I think times have changed because the gap to the top 6 is now so big that the premium for points gained against them carries even more significance than it ever did. This is where the key lies and this is where I think Hughton's approach is flawed. A win for us tomorrow would be bigger than any other this season, it would be worth more than three points, it would virtually guarantee survival because of the psychological impact it would have. It is bigger for us than games against those around us because everyone gets points against 'teams around them'. Not everyone gets points against the top six, and three of them would be absolutely massive.

Instinctively, we know this. He knows it, he knows that Gross should come on when we are 1-0 with 20 to go, not bring Baldock on when we are 1-0 down at the same stage, and this is where the tactical straight-jacket restricts us. The top teams want you to do that, they want you to chase with 20 to go, and that's when they win 3/4/5 - 0.

I really hope that all of the above is wrong, but I don't think it will be.

This is an excellent post, and well reasoned and I can't disagree with any of it. That said, my biggest concern this year isn't how we have played against the Top 6. It's that the way we have set up to play against the Top 6 has permeated into other games - particularly away from home.

As examples, the negativity in our performances against West Brom and Huddersfield was awful, and showed a collective mindset of wanting to keep it tight. Last season, we would never have started a game like that with such little ambition, and there's very little difference in standards between those sides and the top half of the Championship.

I don't mind keeping it tight against the top teams, and then trying to turn it on against the others - but if we end up keeping it tight against everyone, we're screwed. All they need is a couple of corners....

 

[djentist]

Living in Norfolk I have quite a few Norwich mates, they all held virtually the same opinion on CH being pragmatic but I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt of course given the incredible job he's done here. Some of what they were saying last June has come to the forefront somewhat but they probably were a bit harsh on him. As with us, they didn't have a brilliant squad and I don't think he'd have done any worse for Norwich in the last few games of the season and in the first part of their season afterwards before their favourite Neil Adams got the boot. They needed a change as most clubs do upon relegation, however, and they got it with Alex Neil

 

[Hamilton]

My take is this. Essentially the standard outside of the top 7/8 teams the standard of player and football is not much better than the Championship. Managers like Hughton/Warnock/Bruce/Allardyce et al do very well in the Championship because they are tactically disciplined and get the most out of technically limited players through a structurally sound base that most can understand and replicate. Let's call them 'pragmatists'.

But this approach will generally founder against the top 7/8 teams in the Premier league. It is because the overarching mentality of their teams is tactics/caution/mentality/discipline, and the psychological approach to games against the top 6 is not to lose, or not to lose by many to gain a relative goal difference advantage to their peers from those matches. The gamble being that they will take more points from their peers because of the same disciplines that brought success in the Championship and in previous PL season. The aim is to be the best of the rest, the best pragmatist if you will.

Allardyce's record against the top 6 is terrible, and he is honest about approaching the season in 6 match blocks where he targets a certain number of points in each. He writes-off top 6 games, viewing any points against them as a bonus. Hughton is the same, he is on record last week as saying 'games against the top 6 teams 'don't matter'.

So, players - for me - are then part of a mentality that approaches top 7/8 games with exactly the wrong psychology if they are to get a win.

Eddie Howe at Bournemouth and Wagner at Huddersfield have a different mindset - it is 'sod the goal difference, we are going to take points off the top 7/8 and gain a march on our peers. We are going to play our way. yes we will get stuffed at times but we will also win points'. They are 'optimists'.

Saturday is a prime example of the difference in approach, I am hoping, I really am, that Hughton starts 442. Not because I am a kamikaze nutcase, but because: we need points, we need to send out a team with a positive mindset that feels it can win, we need pace up front with Baldock, Chelsea are in a bad place, and we must start brightly. Hughton's mentality will be 'keep it tight for the first half and let's see if we can grab something out of the game in the second'. This is not the way to play this match. The top 6 get better as games move into the latter stages, not worse. This is where they win, by tiring out the opposition and capitalising on mistakes.

Hughton will start 451 - let's be honest it is never really 4411 because Gross is too slow - and this will tell us all what we already know. He is a good man, a good manager but he is too cautious to get points against the top teams. He generally reacts to the other manager's substitutions rather pro-actively looks to change games, he sticks to his formation when all common sense points in the other direction and he is too respectful.

Leicester showed that a positive mental attitude conquers all, it can be ephemeral, it might be temporary and you might get spanked, But if not that, what else? Die trying, not wondering.

My hypothesis is that optimists will triumph over the oragmatists this season because the points they accrue will amount to a greater differential versus their peers than the goal difference focus of the pragmatists. The pragmatists have traditionally done well in previous seasons because the standard below the top 7/8 teams fits their approach very well. However I think times have changed because the gap to the top 6 is now so big that the premium for points gained against them carries even more significance than it ever did. This is where the key lies and this is where I think Hughton's approach is flawed. A win for us tomorrow would be bigger than any other this season, it would be worth more than three points, it would virtually guarantee survival because of the psychological impact it would have. It is bigger for us than games against those around us because everyone gets points against 'teams around them'. Not everyone gets points against the top six, and three of them would be absolutely massive.

Instinctively, we know this. He knows it, he knows that Gross should come on when we are 1-0 with 20 to go, not bring Baldock on when we are 1-0 down at the same stage, and this is where the tactical straight-jacket restricts us. The top teams want you to do that, they want you to chase with 20 to go, and that's when they win 3/4/5 - 0.

I really hope that all of the above is wrong, but I don't think it will be.

Very well put.

I’d like Chris’s attitude to shift as a pragmatist for this game, if only to accept that we can risk our goal difference. We have nothing to lose in this game and everything to gain. A win, as you say, would be a huge shot in the arm. An aggressive 4-1 loss would not in my view be as bad as a defensive 2-0 loss. Chris needs to make the team believe they can attack and put teams under pressure.

It is about mind games now, and not just following what the data says. Or rather, there is emotional data to take into account. What does happen to teams that take on and beat the big 6? It would be good to look at that. As a pragmatist, I’d like Chris to see that there is value in taking that risk this weekend. Chelsea will win, but the manner of our defeat is critical. We need to surprise them and as you suggest, take real positives into the next game.

Either way, we all need a boost.


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[westy]

Best post Ive seen in a long time.

What’s Hyppia and Burke got to do with it? OP is making perfectly reasonable point that CH tactics are not working not least against top 6, unless by ‘working’ you mean not getting hammered (except Liverpool) but instead defending for 30,40,50,60,70 minutes or however long it takes for the defence to be breached and then just continue with the same approach so we only get beat 2-0. CH can then give some BS about defending well in parts, bad goals conceded, they have quality players, blah, blah, blah. Apart from Man U we have looked like League 1 on a FA Cup day out against top 6, and not much better in most away games against the rest.

But of course we are 16th so why worry? Well, we have effectively only 9 winnable games left; you never know a 1-0 FA Cup type top shock result against top 6 might sneak in but I wouldn’t bet on it. Defending the Alamo is what CH does; it doesn’t work, so let’s just try and do it better.

And we need minimum 4 wins from those games, ideally 5. If anyone can give a heads up as to where they will come from based on current form, please go ahead. Another poster has said (presumably seriously) that would take 10 points right now meaning we hold heads high as sink back into Championship not in 20th place (probably).

I am certainly seeing now what the Norwich fans meant, It is not the negativity per se, but the stubborn refusal to see that it isn’t working. It isn’t moaning, it is not even frustrating, it is merely observational.

 

[Codner's Crackpipe]

You, your thought process and your opinions are an absolute mess, FYI. Just my opinion though, although I've "heard" lots of other think the same. Hopefully that's not too "heartbreaking" for you, you epic fanny.

Magnificent stuff.

 

[Brighton Mod]

You seem to be dancing around a subject here. What do you believe is required from Brighton, in terms of personnel?

Its not the personnel, its the mindset that the players have had to adopt under this defensive strategy, whch turns out being only a defensive strategy as the players are now unable to play any other way. Frustrations from AK, one man to aim at in the centre or do it all yourself, wingers dragged back to defend at all costs and expected to run from their own half to score, is too demandingon individuals. WE can no longer draw our way to survival so we have to have an offensive plan, all the good will has now been spent. One win in twelve is disastrous and a repeat of the Norwich performance sees us down.

 

[Brighton Mod]

What an absolute pathetic post.
Hughton kept Norwich up first season and kept them out the relegation zone the following season before they, wrongly, sacked him.

Which part?

he isn't popular and a nice guy?
failure to keep us up will not affect his reputation?
West Brom wasn't the easiest game we will have?
he will change the game plan and team strategy against Chelsea and West Ham?

According to your reply you agree with the above.

 

[warmleyseagull]

This sentiment is all well and good but stand or falls on the phrase "it isn't working"...

Most experts would agree that our points total at this stage is decent given the extreme lack of firepower in the squad. That would suggest quite a successful coaching achievement rather than the opposite.

It isn’t working because of nil points against top 6 and no goal scored from open play. It is very hard to get the 38-40 points needed to stay up without getting SOMETHING from those 12 games. We are more open at home against non top 6 and have a decent record, but it’s not enough.

I don’t know who ‘most experts’ are. Quoting at least one would enhance your argument.

I have no view on the coaching. It is the game tactics that I believe are not working.


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[Jimmehh]

Not everyone gets points against the top six, and three of them would be absolutely massive.

Great post... except this...

The current stats are that every single team except Brighton in the premier league this season has got at least a point off of a 'Top Six' team...

So actually, everybody gets points off of a Top 6 team, except Brighton so far.

 

[Pavilionaire]

The relevance of the OP's original post is that Hughton has been in exactly this same position before and lost his job a few weeks later. He must be aware of the similarity of circumstance and it will be interesting to see how things pan out second time around.

What is interesting is that on paper he had 4 decent forwards: Becchio, Hooper, Elmander and Van Wolfswinkel - but none of them were scoring regularly and Hooper finished top scorer that season with 6 goals. Crucially, he never bought in additional forwards in that transfer window - electing to keep faith with what he had. It cost him his job.

Already, it looks like he'll do something he didn't do last time and that is bring in a striker in the January window. I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to bring in another.

 

[Easy 10]

My take is this. Essentially the standard outside of the top 7/8 teams the standard of player and football is not much better than the Championship. Managers like Hughton/Warnock/Bruce/Allardyce et al do very well in the Championship because they are tactically disciplined and get the most out of technically limited players through a structurally sound base that most can understand and replicate. Let's call them 'pragmatists'.

But this approach will generally founder against the top 7/8 teams in the Premier league. It is because the overarching mentality of their teams is tactics/caution/mentality/discipline, and the psychological approach to games against the top 6 is not to lose, or not to lose by many to gain a relative goal difference advantage to their peers from those matches. The gamble being that they will take more points from their peers because of the same disciplines that brought success in the Championship and in previous PL season. The aim is to be the best of the rest, the best pragmatist if you will.

Allardyce's record against the top 6 is terrible, and he is honest about approaching the season in 6 match blocks where he targets a certain number of points in each. He writes-off top 6 games, viewing any points against them as a bonus. Hughton is the same, he is on record last week as saying 'games against the top 6 teams 'don't matter'.

So, players - for me - are then part of a mentality that approaches top 7/8 games with exactly the wrong psychology if they are to get a win.

Eddie Howe at Bournemouth and Wagner at Huddersfield have a different mindset - it is 'sod the goal difference, we are going to take points off the top 7/8 and gain a march on our peers. We are going to play our way. yes we will get stuffed at times but we will also win points'. They are 'optimists'.

Saturday is a prime example of the difference in approach, I am hoping, I really am, that Hughton starts 442. Not because I am a kamikaze nutcase, but because: we need points, we need to send out a team with a positive mindset that feels it can win, we need pace up front with Baldock, Chelsea are in a bad place, and we must start brightly. Hughton's mentality will be 'keep it tight for the first half and let's see if we can grab something out of the game in the second'. This is not the way to play this match. The top 6 get better as games move into the latter stages, not worse. This is where they win, by tiring out the opposition and capitalising on mistakes.

Hughton will start 451 - let's be honest it is never really 4411 because Gross is too slow - and this will tell us all what we already know. He is a good man, a good manager but he is too cautious to get points against the top teams. He generally reacts to the other manager's substitutions rather pro-actively looks to change games, he sticks to his formation when all common sense points in the other direction and he is too respectful.

Leicester showed that a positive mental attitude conquers all, it can be ephemeral, it might be temporary and you might get spanked, But if not that, what else? Die trying, not wondering.

My hypothesis is that optimists will triumph over the oragmatists this season because the points they accrue will amount to a greater differential versus their peers than the goal difference focus of the pragmatists. The pragmatists have traditionally done well in previous seasons because the standard below the top 7/8 teams fits their approach very well. However I think times have changed because the gap to the top 6 is now so big that the premium for points gained against them carries even more significance than it ever did. This is where the key lies and this is where I think Hughton's approach is flawed. A win for us tomorrow would be bigger than any other this season, it would be worth more than three points, it would virtually guarantee survival because of the psychological impact it would have. It is bigger for us than games against those around us because everyone gets points against 'teams around them'. Not everyone gets points against the top six, and three of them would be absolutely massive.

Instinctively, we know this. He knows it, he knows that Gross should come on when we are 1-0 with 20 to go, not bring Baldock on when we are 1-0 down at the same stage, and this is where the tactical straight-jacket restricts us. The top teams want you to do that, they want you to chase with 20 to go, and that's when they win 3/4/5 - 0.

I really hope that all of the above is wrong, but I don't think it will be.

Really good analysis, and I make you spot on chap. Sums up my current feelings on CH and the team perfectly. You should post more often.

 

[warmleyseagull]

It's 'Hyypia, not 'Hyppia' - and I never said whether things are 'working' or not. At the end of the day a moan is a moan is a moan, and 'Hughton out' suggestions, however thinly veiled, are not helpful. Many of us have questioned some aspects of CH's tactics, but the suggestion that Norwich were right to sack him (that went well, didn't it?) so therefore we should is a very different matter.
Do you want Hughton sacked? Seriously? No? - well, don't jump on the moaners' bandwagon then.

It’s actually Hyypiä but let’s try not to trivialise over spelling.

Criticism, doubt. comment are not moaning. I am not a bandwagonner. For what it’s worth I think we should keep CH if relegated, he has proved to be a top Championship manager.

Norwich were probably wrong to sack him; but does that mean no-one can question anything he does without being dubbed a moaner or a CH outer?

Are you content with performances against top 6 so far? It could change of course, but what is your view on those games to date?


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[Sarisbury Seagull]

Sorry but to see grown men and professional footballers act that way, was a shocking moment.

Do you write the click-bait headlines for the likes of talkSport, Joe and The Sun etc by any chance?!

 

[kevtherev]

Biggest problem for me is with each passing game, the more negative we become. When surely the opposite is what's needed. If we are going to go down, I can accept that. What I can't except is going down, whist on the ropes just covering up. Because your scare of getting hit to hard.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

It isn’t working because of nil points against top 6 and no goal scored from open play. It is very hard to get the 38-40 points needed to stay up without getting SOMETHING from those 12 games. We are more open at home against non top 6 and have a decent record, but it’s not enough.

I don’t know who ‘most experts’ are. Quoting at least one would enhance your argument.

I have no view on the coaching. It is the game tactics that I believe are not working.


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Surely game tactics are pretty much the essence of professional football coaching. Why try and score a point with that bit of nitpicking?

I'm sure there was pretty much universally positive reporting of our excellent performance at Old Trafford - you can find some quotes yourself.

Judge us at the end of the season. We have only played Man City and Liverpool at home so far of the top 6 - and we created at least 3 or 4 excellent chances to score against Liverpool.

I really don't get the Hughton bashing.


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