Norwich financial difficulties

[Soulman]

Delia could sell her properties on Letsbe Avenue.

 

[Rogero]

Delia could cook the books.

 

[BensGrandad]

If we can keep Dunk and Goldson why would CH want to sign Bassong to be a 2nd back up with Uwe? I would have thought that he would be 1st back up and we would look for another youngster n the Goldson mould to bring on.

 

[Uter]

Probably a case of once in the PL, they spend big to try to stay there (overspend compared to their income - large transfer fees and high wages) so relegation makes i worse with the big drop in tv money. Clubs higher up the PL try to qualify for Europe and overspend, etc....

How many PL clubs broke even or made a profit in any of the last 5 seasons or overall during that period?
It's the same in the Championship, teams over spend trying to get promoted to get that extra cash, risking their futures too (Albion c£200m in debt to Bloom)

Wherever a team plays, some fans will always want more and some owners will chase it, risking disaster (Pompey, etc) at what point do clubs say no, we are going to budget so we don't spend more than our income and break even at worst? (in fact, how many English league clubs broke even or made a profit recently / over a sustained period of time?

In 2014/15 14 PL clubs made a profit and 6 made a loss before tax. The 6 loss makers: Man Utd (4m), Everton (4m), Chelsea (23m), Sunderland (25m), Villa (28m), QPR (46m).

Over the last 4 seasons combined 10 (of those clubs in the PL last season) made a profit and 10 made a loss.

I think your underlying assumption that PL clubs are routinely loss making is less true today than it was a few years ago as there is a clear trend towards profitability. However, in the Championship almost every club makes a loss. Last season in the Championship only Ipswich, Cardiff, Reading, Birmingham, Wolves and Rotherham made a profit. As the Swiss Ramble puts it:

"...hardly any clubs are profitable in the Championship with only six making money in 2014/15 – and most of those are due to special factors.

Ipswich Town were top of the pops with £5 million, but that included £12 million profit on player sales. Cardiff’s £4 million was boosted by £26 million credits from their owner writing-off some loans and accrued interest. Reading’s £3 million was largely due to an £11 million revaluation of land around their stadium. Birmingham City and Wolverhampton Wanderers both made £1 million, but were helped by £10 million of parachute payments apiece.

So the only club to make money without the benefit of once-off positives were Rotherham United, who basically just broke even – and ended up avoiding relegation to League One by a single place."

Sobering thought for Championship clubs chasing the dream.

 

[CliveWalkerWingWizard]

And leading to the premier being a closed shop, or an old boys club at best

 

[Hampster Gull]

Their CEO has just resigned

Wot, one of the Labour mob?

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Yes but they could sell their prize assets Nathan Redmond and Ruddy and keep the vultures away leaving them with a good squad and a good workman like manager.

I would expect Robbie Brady to be the player in highest demand - a left sided player who can play LB, LM and LW will be wanted. I would expect Redmond and Ruddy not to be far behind. Wisdom, Mbokani and Bamford are all going to go back to their clubs. Three or four others could leave as well - Norwich will have a big problem trying to keep a squad together.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

If we can keep Dunk and Goldson why would CH want to sign Bassong to be a 2nd back up with Uwe? I would have thought that he would be 1st back up and we would look for another youngster n the Goldson mould to bring on.

I suggested on another thread that John Egan would be an interesting prospect at CB. He has not renewed his contract with Gillingham and several Championship teams tried to sign him in January. He is 23, is improving and has a lot of potential.

 

[Gary1]

And leading to the premier being a closed shop, or an old boys club at best

Which is what it will become within the next couple of years

 

[lizard]

If we can keep Dunk and Goldson why would CH want to sign Bassong to be a 2nd back up with Uwe? I would have thought that he would be 1st back up and we would look for another youngster n the Goldson mould to bring on.

I think we will need an experienced replacement for Gordon Greer, personally I think Bassong ticks the boxes but would see it unlikely that a direct rival would be willing to aide our campaign with little benefit to themselves.
We've been fortunate with the way Goldson has stepped up magnificently this season. Bringing in another youngster to be first team ready when injuries and suspensions hit is risky and may not pay off. I'd be more assured having a reliable backup plan than risking points through lack of foresight.

 

[HoveSaint]

In 2014/15 14 PL clubs made a profit and 6 made a loss before tax. The 6 loss makers: Man Utd (4m), Everton (4m), Chelsea (23m), Sunderland (25m), Villa (28m), QPR (46m).

Over the last 4 seasons combined 10 (of those clubs in the PL last season) made a profit and 10 made a loss.

I think your underlying assumption that PL clubs are routinely loss making is less true today than it was a few years ago as there is a clear trend towards profitability. However, in the Championship almost every club makes a loss. Last season in the Championship only Ipswich, Cardiff, Reading, Birmingham, Wolves and Rotherham made a profit. As the Swiss Ramble puts it:

"...hardly any clubs are profitable in the Championship with only six making money in 2014/15 – and most of those are due to special factors.

Ipswich Town were top of the pops with £5 million, but that included £12 million profit on player sales. Cardiff’s £4 million was boosted by £26 million credits from their owner writing-off some loans and accrued interest. Reading’s £3 million was largely due to an £11 million revaluation of land around their stadium. Birmingham City and Wolverhampton Wanderers both made £1 million, but were helped by £10 million of parachute payments apiece.

So the only club to make money without the benefit of once-off positives were Rotherham United, who basically just broke even – and ended up avoiding relegation to League One by a single place."

Sobering thought for Championship clubs chasing the dream.

Spot on.

It is perfectly possible to make a tidy profit in the Prem and still finish mid-to-lower third in the table. Especially if you buy wisely and sell to idiot clubs like Liverpool who just get the money hoses out every summer. (Lovren for £20m for instance!!). However it is impossible to build a squad in the Championship to compete at the top on what is really just ticket sales + shirts + a few low-value TV games. I don't know what the average wage for Albion is at the moment, but it is probably around 150k a week for the whole squad. No way can the numbers add up with just ticket sales, pies and shirts.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Doesn't even the bottom placed side in the PL receive vastly more than we do in a season? That, and some fat parachute payments will serve Norwich just fine. I really can't understand why they'd be in difficulty in the slightest.

They might lose a few players, but probably because those players want to be in the PL, more than due to a desperate need to raise funds.

El Presidente might be able to verify or deny this.

 

[AZ Gull]

Doesn't even the bottom placed side in the PL receive vastly more than we do in a season? That, and some fat parachute payments will serve Norwich just fine. I really can't understand why they'd be in difficulty in the slightest.

They might lose a few players, but probably because those players want to be in the PL, more than due to a desperate need to raise funds.

El Presidente might be able to verify or deny this.

Last season the bottom club in the Premier League (QPR) received £65 million. The central distribution to Football League clubs was £4.5 million.

Norwich also stand to receive an estimated £87 million in parachute payments over the next three seasons (£40 million, £33 million, £14 million).

 

[BUTTERBALL]

I don't fancy Norwich next year, top 6 at best, definitely not top 2. And i think WE will be the "team to beat". You can't buy spirit.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Doesn't even the bottom placed side in the PL receive vastly more than we do in a season? That, and some fat parachute payments will serve Norwich just fine. I really can't understand why they'd be in difficulty in the slightest.

They might lose a few players, but probably because those players want to be in the PL, more than due to a desperate need to raise funds.

El Presidente might be able to verify or deny this.

Agreed. I would be very surprised if they are in trouble. They cannot, under the PL rules, spend more than +- 55m of their PL TV revenue on wages for a start. Their staff costs including Directors was 48m in 2014-15, which included 11m in promotion bonuses. They made a loss of 8.5m which includes those bonuses, without them they made a profit of 2.6m (in the Championship). So it would be pretty good going if they are financial difficulties now after a season in the PL.

 

[pishhead]

Bar perhaps Klose and Brady I really don't think top flight teams will be fighting for any Norwich players.

 

[Marshy]

Bar perhaps Klose and Brady I really don't think top flight teams will be fighting for any Norwich players.

Redmond and Ruddy you would imagine will go

 

[atomised]

Last season the bottom club in the Premier League (QPR) received £65 million. The central distribution to Football League clubs was £4.5 million.

Norwich also stand to receive an estimated £87 million in parachute payments over the next three seasons (£40 million, £33 million, £14 million).

Don't doubt the logic but do they not just get the 2 years parachute payments as they were only up for one season or does that start next season.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

Continued paying their squad Premier wages, which was double what they earnt in the Championship previously. Then bought Andre Gray from the parachute payments and Bartons high wages but this was partially offset by selling Ings to Liverpool. Plus they paid a reputed £6m for the CB from Brentford.

Here you go again, little if any fact but plenty more lazily regurgitated gossip and opinion of others being tediously claimed as such.
1) Burnley's financial year, like the Albion's, finishes at the end of June 2016 with their accounts needing to be with Companies House and therefore in the public domain by end March 2017. These will show whether their overall club wage bill is maintained/lower/higher for this season; at this stage neither you nor I know, just as we don't know what Joey Barton's salary is.
2) Their accounts for 2014/5 are in the public domain and show they made a net profit for the season of £30.1M with a club wage bill of £29.4M (up from an overall £21.5M previously). All external debt and directors loans have now been repaid as have their club bondholders, who helped finance the buy back of Turf Moor and Burnley's training a few years back. There's a £10M commitment to upgrade some aspects of Turf Moor and their training facility by end 2017 (presumably June) but basically Burnley FC seem to have had £20M or so of cash available from July 2015.
3) The tribunal award for Ings this spring was for £6.5M upfront (in the public domain) plus some appearance bits 'n pieces; as he was out of contact their is no amortisation charge to the accounts so this will register fully as income. Whatever Burnley received from Spurs for Trippier (£3.5M educated guess), Wallace (Wednesday) and their other disposals this season may be accounted for similarly (I don't know). However, this more than balances the charges to their accounts this season for Tarkowski (£0.86M if your reputed £6M purchase price is correct) and Gray at £3M, assuming he cost them £9M. There are other purchases but it looks to me that just the fee received for Ings will more than cover all Burnley's acquisitions this season with significant change.

Basically, Burnley looked to have coped financially pretty comfortably this season and have not required the PL parachute payment to maintain the club wage bill.