Norwich fan on Hughton

[oneillco]

Some of the negative comments most probably come from when you was taking a couple of our players and we had a few Norwich fans on here being wum.

I haven't seen any negative comments about Norwich? I think it's good when people like Derby Canary come on NSC when they have interesting observations to make; it's useful to get an outside perspective. I also think NCFC are a decent club in a very similar mould to Albion.

 

[Bombadier Botty]

Lambert seemed obsessed with our players at one point. It was as though your entire scouting network was camped out at Withdean stadium a few years back, which raised some strong feelings on here.

 

[Seagull1989]

I remember being surprised that Norwich sacked CH , when they did and thought if they had kept him you would have stayed up. But obviously you were watching every week and could see it all going wrong.

The lack of plan B and not playing to strikers strengths is worrying though

 

[DerbyCanary]

If there is any animosity from us towards Norwich it is probably to do with you raiding us for Crofts and Bennett and a certain arrogance from NCFC fans ( especially as represented on The Pink Un) that they could have whoever they wanted from the gay boys on the south coast. It hasn't always been pleasant (any more than our "six finger" responses).
Nice summary of a manager who does well in some clubs but just can't fit in at others. It really is how it works isn't it. Hopefully for CH we are more a Newcastle or a Birmingham than a Norwich - a club who will surely have to change managers again soon as Adams clearly doesn't cut it.

Aye, The Pinkun is full of absolute muppets. NorwichTalk is our sensible forum which has a higher calibre of contributions and smaller minority of idiots. I wasn't aware you'd had some of the idiots migrate over here (wasn't one called "FirstWizard" or "Wiz" was there? He's infamous as the Pinkun's biggest kn*bhead, and has a habit of trolling other clubs forums). Most of us aren't like that.

We won't get rid of Adams yet. He won the FA Youth cup (in quite spectacular fashion) with our academy for the first time in 30 years, and has been around the club for 20 years now, he has a lot of good will from the fans. Mike Phelan coming in as assistant has done much to alleviate the concerns about Adams lack of experience. We had a rocky couple of months but have won 3 (including a 5-0 and a 6-1), and drawn one (away to Derby) in our last 5. He's safe for a fair while yet.

 

[Insel affe]

Firstly, I was disappointed to see all the negative comments about NCFC in that thread. Not sure why so many of your fans seem to have taken issue with us

No way.....................


speak to the hand..............

 

[Ernest]

Why not mention his first season with Norwich ? Probably because it was a success and doesn't fit in with the slag off Chris Hughton AGENDA

 

[HCxUK]

Really struggle to see how Hughton finishing 11th in his first season, and being sacked whilst 5 points above the relegation zone is having a nightmare

 

[The Fifth Column]

No doubt he was working against circumstance with the position we were in at the lower end of Prem, but he spent 12 million on strikers and then played a system which played to neither Hooper nor Van Wolfswinkel's strengths, resulting in a haul of just 6 goals between them, which was the primary reason we went down to be honest.

Easy to blame CH for that but it could simply be that neither Hooper or Van Wolfwinkel were good enough for the PL? Hooper scored 6 in 32 league games, Van Wolf 1 in 25! At St Etienne on loan Van Wolf has only scored 4 in 15 appearances. In fact it could be that Norwich City simply were not good enough for the PL and sometimes thats just the way it is. £12million is not a lot for 2 PL strikers, it may just about get you one decent one!

Overall i'm not putting too much faith in CHs performance at a poor quality premier league team and would think a more reliable guage of his quality is his time in the Championship which isnt to shabby.

 

[symyjym]

No, we sacked him too late. Our CEO publically apologised as the fans wanted CH out before Christmas and the board failed to act. Called the failure to sack Hughton when he should have "The biggest failure of my 32 year career". Nobody at Norwich feels his sacking was premature. He needed to go. He's not a bad manager though because it didn't work out for us, Newcastle and Birmingham fans all love him, and if you look on our forums, you will see everyone wishes him well, although we don't share quite the same love for him due to what happened with him in charge of us, we all recognise he is a thoroughly nice bloke, and hope he finds success elsewhere.

That was a self fulfilled prophecy. Wanting a manager out before the halfway stage when14th (one win away from mid table) kills team spirit and belief. That was your problem, not Hughton, you paid the price, he didn’t get you relegated, the club did.
I think you were 5 points above the relegation zone when he left on 32 points, and you got relegated on 33 That was 1 point from a possible 15 without him.

 

[Mackenzie]

Apologies for starting a new thread, I did read the one when he was appointed, but can't seem to locate it now after I had to wait a day or two for mods to accept my account.

Firstly, I was disappointed to see all the negative comments about NCFC in that thread. Not sure why so many of your fans seem to have taken issue with us, as we generally get on well with other team's fanbases, and I have particularly fond memories of Brighton away about 10 years ago, my first away game with my mates and how well we were treated by Brighton fans, who were nothing but absolute gentlemen towards us, and helped us out with getting the bus to the ground etc.

Anyway, the main point of my post was to give my insight as to Hughton. I think he is a good appointment for you, with the position you are in at the moment.

He didn't work for Norwich, but I do think he is a very good Championship manager, as opposed to a capable Premier League one.

No doubt he was working against circumstance with the position we were in at the lower end of Prem, but he spent 12 million on strikers and then played a system which played to neither Hooper nor Van Wolfswinkel's strengths, resulting in a haul of just 6 goals between them, which was the primary reason we went down to be honest. He presided over a record transfer spend, then employed awful, negative tactics and never had a plan B. This is epitomised at 2-0 down after 30 mins against Man City, and he took a striker off and brought a Defensive Mid on to limit the damage. You might say that's sensible, but when you're in the moment, it's the most embarassing, disappointing display of lack of faith in his players. Basically he looked out of his comfort zone, and out of his depth.

My main problems with him was the negative, horrible football, lack of Plan B, (at Easter in his first season, we went 4 of 6 games without registering a shot on or off target) and absolute ineptitude with subs. He made 64 subs last year before any of them came on and scored, or even got an assist. No other manager in any division managed to have such little impact when making subs last season.

I do think, with another manager, we would have comfortably stayed up last season, and I said in November that if he was still in at Christmas, we were going down. The football we played was diabolical, I've never been less impassioned about Norwich than I was under CH. You may say that's circumstance, bottom end of the Prem etc. But Swansea, So'ton prove that is not necessarily the case if you have the right man in charge.

Overall CH just didn't fit with us, and what we wanted to achieve, and he never looked like a comfortable fit for the club. He did do some good things in the first season, we went on a 10 game unbeaten run, and put several of the big boys to the sword.

Having said all of that though, I do think he is a top manager at this level, and I think you will do well with him at the helm. Personally, I would not want him at Norwich for round 2, but that is purely based on the baggage that would be attached to that reality, rather than lacking faith in his ability. He had Bham and Newcastle playing lovely stuff. What he did at Newcastle is slightly marred by the fact they were a Premier League squad playing in the Champs, but he worked miracles at Birmingham and you only have to look at their struggles since he left to realise what an excellent job he did there.

I wish Chris nothing but good fortune, although it did not work out with us, he is a really nice bloke and deserves to be successful. I would be concerned if I were you with his ability to change a game if you go behind, but he will certainly make you more solid at the back so hopefully that won't happen too often.

It is absolutely nailed on you will sign Bassong off us by the way - he refers to Hughton as a "father". I suspect you may take Elliot Benno too, seems Adams doesn't like him for whatever reason - I think he's a decent player, but he doesn't seem to get a look in with us at the moment so I think best for all parties if he gets the move that I presume he wants, to BHA.

Good luck to Hughton, and good luck to yourselves for the rest of the season, genuinely hope he can help you put the struggles behind you and pushing on up the table.

Thank you for taking the time to write all of that out.

We're generally very happy with his appointment, but to be honest even Neil Adams would have been an improvement over Hyypia.

Can we have Benno back please.

 

[DerbyCanary]

Why not mention his first season with Norwich ? Probably because it was a success and doesn't fit in with the slag off Chris Hughton AGENDA

I think you'll find that actually, a lot of fans wanted him gone at the end of the first season, and if you trawl far enough back through the Pinkun, you will find several threads to that effect. The position of 11th was false, in so much as we beat West Brom who had nothing to play for and somehow beat Man City away in the final game, when they had nothing to play for (neither did we to be fair) and those 6 points shot us up the table from 17th. We were only 3 points ahead of 16th place in the final table. The 10 game unbeaten run saved us that season, if you look at the form for the rest of it, we were terrible and got sucked back into the relegation battle after being a fair way clear of it. No agenda here, as I've said several times, I really hope he finds success with you as he's a nice bloke, seems some of you can't reconcile an honest opinion with your own thoughts on it.

 

[Dave the OAP]

I remember Norwich taking the defeat in the fa cup in 1983 rather badly and there was certainly some animosity when we played up there a few years ago for some reason.

It will be interesting how he gets on here and I am cautiously optimistic!

 

[DerbyCanary]

That was a self fulfilled prophecy. Wanting a manager out before the halfway stage when14th (one win away from mid table) kills team spirit and belief. That was your problem, not Hughton, you paid the price, he didn’t get you relegated, the club did.
I think you were 5 points above the relegation zone when he left on 32 points, and you got relegated on 33 That was 1 point from a possible 15 without him.

Knowing our run of the final 5 games of the season, and having watching 18months of hopeless dross, with no hope of improvement, you'd have said the same. As previously posted, our 5 games after he was sacked, we played Fulham away, Liverpool home, Chelsea away, United away, and Arsenal home in our final 5 fixtures. How many points do you think Hughton would have got out of that run in?

We're not a massively arrogant fan base, we don't expect to be achieving like So'ton have or anything, but the football was dire, the tactics were dire and we simply weren't very good. Blame that on the club if you like but Hughton bought the players, Hughton set up the tactics, and Hughton would have got us relegated, as many fans were saying long before he sacked. That's the perspective from inside, I appreciate that it may have looked different from the outside, but the reality is Hughton was culpable for the relegation in my own, and 99.9% of other NCFC fans' opinion. The fact that so many of us wish him well, and think he will be successful with you, should give you an indication about the character of the bloke, and the fact that we feel he just ended up in a bad situation due to being a bit out of his depth, rather than being a bad manager. I'm sure if you asked him personally, he would hold himself accountable for relegation too, but I'm sure he will have learnt from it, and the Championship is an entirely different league, and one he has a proven record of thriving in. We couldn't keep him as we came down as things had gotten really sour, so I think he has a better chance of success with you than he would have if he had stayed with us.

Yes the fans were on his back, and wanted him out. That was for a reason though, you can't just put us down as expectant glory merchants, because it's not right. We wanted him out because things weren't working out and the writing was on the wall.

 

[DerbyCanary]

Really struggle to see how Hughton finishing 11th in his first season, and being sacked whilst 5 points above the relegation zone is having a nightmare

As mentioned above. 10 game unbeaten run was great, the rest of the season was dire, and we would have finished in the relegation zone had we not picked the points up in that run. 11th was not a true reflection of the season. 25% of that year was great, 75% was absolute nightmare.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I think we have reason for optimism with this appointment.

We are for now just concerned with Hughton's Championship record - we can 'worry' about the PL later ( if things go to plan ).

If CH can get us there, it is job done. If he's learnt from his time with Norwich, then bonus. If not, well we'll be looking for someone else at that time.

 

[The Fifth Column]

As mentioned above. 10 game unbeaten run was great, the rest of the season was dire, and we would have finished in the relegation zone had we not picked the points up in that run. 11th was not a true reflection of the season. 25% of that year was great, 75% was absolute nightmare.

I think with a top quality manager it is debatable if NCFC would have stayed up? Generally the table at the end of the season doesnt lie and the 3 worst teams are relegated. Perhaps you MAY have stayed up with a better manager but even then I still think you would have been bottom 6. Sometimes you have to accept that the TEAM simply wasnt good enough to a large degree.

 

[Insel affe]

The position of 11th was false, in so much as we beat West Brom who had nothing to play for and somehow beat Man City away in the final game, when they had nothing to play for (neither did we to be fair) and those 6 points shot us up the table from 17th. .

So what your saying is he did what he was paid to do win some games, and that's not good enough.......


Jebus, what do you want ?

 

[DerbyCanary]

Easy to blame CH for that but it could simply be that neither Hooper or Van Wolfwinkel were good enough for the PL? Hooper scored 6 in 32 league games, Van Wolf 1 in 25! At St Etienne on loan Van Wolf has only scored 4 in 15 appearances. In fact it could be that Norwich City simply were not good enough for the PL and sometimes thats just the way it is. £12million is not a lot for 2 PL strikers, it may just about get you one decent one!

Overall i'm not putting too much faith in CHs performance at a poor quality premier league team and would think a more reliable guage of his quality is his time in the Championship which isnt to shabby.

If you look at our squad last season, compared to other teams, we should never have gone down on paper. RvW has banged them in wherever he has been. Hooper scored 80 something in 120 odd games for Celtic and 29 for Scunthorpe before that. Last season we recorded our lowest EVER goals tally. If we had played to the strengths of Hooper or RvW then we would have stayed up. Even Steve Morison got 9 the year before under Lambert, got 1 under Hughton before being shipped out in January. Holt went from 15 goals under Lambert in his first PL season to scoring 7 under Hughton and looking a shadow of his former self. Pilkington went from 8 goals under Lambert to 5 under Hughton in season 1. We scored 52 under Lambert, then 41, then 28 under Hughton, our lowest ever total.

Even if you say we weren't good enough on paper (which I think is tenuous) then who do you blame for signing Hooper/RvW? Hughton was backed by the board and spent close to 30 million last summer. Consensus is he bought good players, Snodgrass, Fer, Garrido, Olsson, Tettey, Turner, Redmond. So whose fault is it if they don't perform? And whose fault is it for signing them if you don't think they are good enough?

I know you're all optimistic, and I think you're right to be because I think he will do well at this level, particularly given that he only needs to outperform Hyppia to be branded a success at the moment... and I think he potentially could do well in the Prem if he has learnt from his mistakes; but trying to absolve him of blame for his failings last year, just because he's the new messiah, is nonsensical.

 

[jimbob5]

Sir Alex Fergie started off as a very good manager but became great because 1. He was given time. 2. He had resources 3. He learned from his mistakes and adjusted. Maybe Hughton will learn that he has to have a plan B and C.

 

[DerbyCanary]

Winning meaningless games at the end of the season to bump the position up from 16th to 11th? Yeah I'd say that was pretty irrelevant to the conversation to be fair. It makes it look much better than it was on paper is the point.