North stand stewards AGAIN

[Storer 68]

True, but I'm not sure DCMS care that much themselves. They're just happy with the status quo on this and so they take all their advice on policy from the subject matter experts, SGSA. And SGSA know that if policy on persistent standing is changed then there's no major role for SGSA in future, so guess what their advice to DCMS is .....

But really it's down to the extent that the local SGSA inspector wants to push it, and how much leverage he has with the local authority to enforce things. Some club CEOs and Safety Officers push back and point out that these regulations are unenforcible if large numbers are determined to stand. In that case the emphasis generally changes to making sure that aisles and walkways are kept clear. Chis Baker was in this camp - sounds like he's losing the battle to stand up (geddit?) against SGSA!

unsuprisingly you are right. we couldn't give a toss. We have a couple of bigger events to deal with this summer than some plebs who want to stand up during a bog standard division game between brighton and middlesbrough

 

[NMH]

You know nothing about me. I have no idea why you think I could never be persuaded. I am happy to be persuaded on issues by sound argument and explanation of issues and aspects I may have misunderstood or not appreciated.

I hope you would be happy to be influenced. I know you like to take umbrage at my posts quite often, you never respond to my posts unless you do!

Funnily enough - if I am told to "try to think" or somone tells me they are going to type slower it tends to make me think they do not have the strongest argument and in fact have not really thought through what they are saying.

Oh, believe me I thought through what I was saying, and I have had experience of both sides of the issue in question. Whenever I present the side that doesn't suit people (who insist that standing is for everyone is certain areas now) I get biting comments that don't appear to me to be "thought through".
Once, one poster in particular asked for opinions on the doffing of caps inside The Sportsman, and when presented with a calm perspective that didn't suit his agenda I got all kinds of spiky bileous invective launched at me. INVITED opinion yet couldn't handle the one that took the other side to his own! I sense that from you also DKM, this ready and willingness to take up the sword on my input.

Anyway thanks to those like Superphil and westdene who can discuss an issue in a civil manner.

I am sure the issue will all be sorted. The club get more things right than otherwise.

Which serves to underline exactly what I mean. I did not post anything much different from Westdene or Programme Seller, but you come up with some abrupt response to my post and not theirs. I don't mind, but I won't mind responding in kind either - much to your chagrin, evidently.

I thought this post through too.

 

[NMH]

There were no concessions to standing, only tolerance, which seems to have been rather one-sided.

Some poeple are also ignoring the clubs requests not to park in Coldean or Moulscoomb. Oh well, let's just hope none of this ever comes back to bite us

I think you are right on the first point. Not sure about the "one sided", though this thread represents a poor response to the tolerance that was offered by the club, yes.
But it doesn't represent everyone - there are loads in the North Stand who HAVE appreciated the acceptances and moved with it, to excellent results.
I don't know - but perhaps there are still miscreants who insist that they should still have a right to stand wherever they are, simply because they spotted standing elsewhere....and those people might be under scrutiny simply because they take that adversity! Yes, there will be individuals who will push ANY afforded liberties until they are back to being 'rebels'. Any stewarding or crowd management is like a pariah to them, so if they can't live with things as they are/have to be, then they may have to live without. Troublemakers exist, that's a given.

The parking is another request for the sake of keeping people happy elsewhere - not everyone wants to have their lives changed by our football stadium, as we remember from Withdean and John Catt...but other less vocal people didn't want their parking compromised.
Of course it will eventually be heard by the local authorities who may put it up when we want to increase the crowd capacity, and then parking violations will be conjured up as a punitive way to redress the situation....and that'll again effect the locals too when they have desirable visitors. The only way around these issues is reason, thinking things through, and the making of wiser decisions.....mostly asked of our fanbase when attending matches. The club is just doing what they can, or what they have to do, to get everything to run as smoothly as possible for all concerned.
It's not much to ask, .....for most people.

 

[NMH]

Incidentally, one BHA fan I know had his tires slashed by a Withdean resident a while back. He was asked not to park there but he decided there was no actual law preventing him. Both parties think the other was unreasonable, one even broke the law in criminally damaging his property.

Think about how and why that situation arose. Can anyone take one person's side and not see the other's?
What if one fan persisted and had nothing happen to his car, then he told his mates and they started parking there.... then others saw the Seagulls stickers and decided it must be alright..... and then the residents had nowhere to park when they came home, and even got tickets or into accidents when they parked somewhere else?

 

[Goodfella]

f*** me I really don't get why everyone is moaning about this, I bought my season ticket in row 'x' in the North stand (2 rows from the back) as I was specifically told by the club they would tolerate standing in this area, and this area alone, anyone who has a ticket in front of those 4 rows has NO right to moan if they are told to sit down Simples really.

So sit down shut up.

 

[ifuhatepalacestandup]

Bigger clubs than us (including Manchester United) have had parts of their grounds closed because of persistent standing.

Safe standing areas take up too much space (because they would need to be converted to seating for any UEFA designated game such as the Kombi system) and are quite expensive to install, compared to just bypassing the issue by istalling seats..

what happens to all the season ticket holders who do sit down, if they close the stand ?. surely not enough space to move half the north stand who do comply to other seats

 

[raymondbriggs]

In principal I 100% agree with every sentiment around standing at football matches, I would want a safe standing area in the 1901 section if it became allowed in the English game. However, for now, that is not the case, and there is no point people getting on high horses about the club trying to enforce the Act. Behaving like they are at the moment is only going to make the stewards get more officious, and the club more pissed off, thus escalating the problem further. The club has to get these planning applications through, there will be many people objecting, and trying to find any excuse to derail the process, anything the club can do to prove the Amex is 100% in line with regulations and the Act is a
We all know the stewards won't tell you to sit down during exciting parts of the match, and we have plenty of them at the Amex, and there has been tolerance of the back 4 rows standing.

That is tolerance, something that should be a two-way thing.

The persistence of standing, and the refusal to comply with requests, as well as the recent escalation of standing in front of the back 4 rows, and the general barracking and baiting aimed at the stewards does you no favours.

A bit of decorum, some appreciation of what the Club has to do to meet its obligations, and some common sense should make it a win-win situation, at the moment, those in danger of being thrown out or banned will be winning nothing.

Or
How about the Club taking on board the clearly expressed wish of its customer base,years of this conflict between paying customers wishing to stand v stewards attempting to enforce a pointless rule but only actually generating conflict,and take a stand on behalf of the fans to get the rules changed.
Safe standing is here,it happens in every ground every game and the club
can help itself and the fans by pushing the safe standing case.

 

[Garage_Doors]

Did you really think only the last four rows of the North Stand would stand ?

Yes i did, ans also so did the club, otherwise they would not have been tolerant of the back 4 rows.

If they had thought it would have ended in a free for all as it has done they would not have made the gesture.
Which is why i believe it will not be continued next year.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Same at Middlesbrough this season.

And Leeds

 

[Postman Pat]

I don't understand why the policy has suddenly changed without any real contact from the club, if they had put something in the programme, on the screens, on the website, on here to say that as of the Derby game the stewards will start enforcing sitting in all areas of the ground in order to support planning application/because we have been warned/ just because.....there would be less aggro.

It just seems like the stewards (and especially that one female steward), has taken it apon themselves to get people to sit when they didn't seem to care before.

I assume this request has come from somewhere and it would be nice to know where. If this had been the way from the start of the season there would probably be less aggro now.

 

[Dirk Gently]

what happens to all the season ticket holders who do sit down, if they close the stand ?. surely not enough space to move half the north stand who do comply to other seats

Exactly - no stands have yet been closed, this has never got past the "threat" stage at a number of clubs. The typical tactic is to reduce the allowed away allocation (even though this financially affects the clubs they are visiting, when it's not their supporters who are the problem.)

 

[Dirk Gently]

I don't understand why the policy has suddenly changed without any real contact from the club, if they had put something in the programme, on the screens, on the website, on here to say that as of the Derby game the stewards will start enforcing sitting in all areas of the ground in order to support planning application/because we have been warned/ just because.....there would be less aggro.

It just seems like the stewards (and especially that one female steward), has taken it apon themselves to get people to sit when they didn't seem to care before.

I assume this request has come from somewhere and it would be nice to know where. If this had been the way from the start of the season there would probably be less aggro now.

I'd suspect that there has been pressure from SGSA at a meeting of the Safety Advisory Group. SAG meetings typically only happen twice a year, so apparent changes of policy like this tend to happen shortly after them.

Is there supporter representation on the SAG who could report back? Or even a FoI request to Brighton & Hove City Council, as they technically convene the SAG.

 

[swervy_123]

I'd suspect that there has been pressure from SGSA at a meeting of the Safety Advisory Group. SAG meetings typically only happen twice a year, so apparent changes of policy like this tend to happen shortly after them.

Is there supporter representation on the SAG who could report back? Or even a FoI request to Brighton & Hove City Council, as they technically convene the SAG.

nothing to do with the club just found out the manager of the north stand as moved to the west and another steward as taken over managering the north . the same old bint who used try to make you sit down in the south at withdean what ajobsworth its been fine all season then she comes along and causes all this shit

 

[Superphil]

nothing to do with the club just found out the manager of the north stand as moved to the west and another steward as taken over managering the north . the same old bint who used try to make you sit down in the south at withdean what ajobsworth its been fine all season then she comes along and causes all this shit

You have to understand, it is those who refuse to comply with the ground regulations who have 'caused' the shit, not some 'jobsworth' doing their job.

 

[swervy_123]

You have to understand, it is those who refuse to comply with the ground regulations who have 'caused' the shit, not some 'jobsworth' doing their job.

you sir are an utter arse if the goverment of the day told you to stick your head in the oven im sure you would, i no all about the rules thankyou but you only have to watch tv to see far more people stand at other grounds than the amex if people choose to stand in the north i for one wont berate them i was just letting people no the reason why the policy has changed in that stand but you seem to be on some crusade let us no we all have to abide by the rules thankyou for your input but it seems ive just found another jobsworth

 

[Superphil]

you sir are an utter arse if the goverment of the day told you to stick your head in the oven im sure you would, i no all about the rules thankyou but you only have to watch tv to see far more people stand at other grounds than the amex if people choose to stand in the north i for one wont berate them i was just letting people no the reason why the policy has changed in that stand but you seem to be on some crusade let us no we all have to abide by the rules thankyou for your input but it seems ive just found another jobsworth

Thank you for making your case, it appears we have different opinions.

BTW, I didn't need to insult you to have an alternative point of view.

 

[wehatepalace]

nothing to do with the club just found out the manager of the north stand as moved to the west and another steward as taken over managering the north . the same old bint who used try to make you sit down in the south at withdean what ajobsworth its been fine all season then she comes along and causes all this shit

The chunky one ? Size 16 you're having a laugh ? That one?

 

[k2bluesky]

Chelsea, whole home end standing for all the game v Benfica and in front of TV cameras, think the stewards tried to make them sit or even make a fuss about it? NO

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The chunky one ? Size 16 you're having a laugh ? That one?

She's worked in the north stand all season, so hasn't just moved there.

 

[wehatepalace]

She's worked in the north stand all season, so hasn't just moved there.

Oh I see, not seen her apart from passing her outside, I actually quite liked her although she did threaten to throw me out once !