Herne Hill Seagull
Well-known member
I stand corrected. Am I to judge from your response that you're not necessarily in favour of it, m'lud, or are you merely stating the financial facts?
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Norman Baker
- Thread starter kevo
- Start date
Screaming J
He'll put a spell on you
I can appreciate why - if he has helped you personally - you would say that and fair play to him on that. But for most of us who have only come into contact with him through his anti Falmer stance over the years, our views are likely to remain somewhat different!
If at the general election the choice in Lewes was just between him and the BNP I MIGHT (assuming I lived there!) just vote for him as opposed to spoiling my ballot paper. But not otherwise.
Fatty Soames is, as you say, useless and appears mostly to exist purely as an apologist for the increasingly erratic pronouncements from our royal Dauphin.
Dover
Home at Last.
Looking at lord Bracknells map, who is far more informed than I will ever be, the new line still has issues when it gets to outer and inner London.
Quite simply I cannot see that the Capital can cope with any more trains.
Quite simply I cannot see that the Capital can cope with any more trains.
juanpablotheseagul
New member
- Mar 8, 2011
- 28
Mackenzie
Old Brightonian
Bog off.
Largest cities of the European Union by population within city limits - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1. London
2. Berlin
3.Madrid
4.Rome
5.Paris
6. hamburg
7. Budapest
8.Vienna
9. Warsaw
10. Bucharest
1. London
2. Berlin
3.Madrid
4.Rome
5.Paris
6. hamburg
7. Budapest
8.Vienna
9. Warsaw
10. Bucharest
The Grockle
Formally Croydon Seagull
Istanbul, although a good chunk of that is probably on the Asian side.
The Grockle
Formally Croydon Seagull
Sorry should have read your reply first! Incredibly Istanbul’s population is over 13 million!
juanpablotheseagul
New member
- Mar 8, 2011
- 28
My point exactly.
Look MacKenzie, it's fair enough to dislike the man and what he has said and done, but comments such as yours are just a little much, the man has a family!
Not Andy Naylor
Well-known member
Incorrect. It was closed so that a road could be built in Lewes. And of course the original line came in from the east, so trains could go through to Brighton without having to reverse.
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Not Andy Naylor
Well-known member
Why is that incredible?
The Grockle
Formally Croydon Seagull
Seems very large for a country with a population a little over 70 million when it's not even the capital city.
West Hoathly Seagull
Honorary Ruffian
It used to be the capital of the Ottoman Empire. I think I'm right that Angora (Ankara) was Ataturk's base and so it became the capital of Turkey in 1923. Paris's metropolitan area has more people than London, but the city limits don't go beyond the Peripherique. This means that the poor suburbs don't get any of the benefit of the economic activity of Paris, a major controversy for many years. London was expanded to take in its suburbs in 1965. Before then, our dear friends were in Surrey.
As for Norman Baker, Lewes was supposed to become part of a Lewes and Brighton East constituency, meaning Baker would face very tough competition from Labour and the Tories. It seems the Lib Dems have kicked that idea out.
On to the main topic, of course BML 2 is not viable. Hart's scheme involved taking over part of Tramlink, which was built on part of the old Selsdon to Woodside line (if you travel from East Grinstead or Uckfield, you can still see the abandoned Selsdon Station). However, to reopen the Uckfield to Lewes line would be a good idea. Lord B's objection was that going via Hamsey, trains couldn't go directly to Brighton. They could go to Seaford instead. People from the northern parts of the line have to go to Redhill, so I don't think having to change at Lewes would be that great a barrier. That closure, along with the ones in the East Grinstead area, was extremely short-sighted, although to be generous perhaps it was unfortunate timing. Crawley was being developed and Gatwick becoming the main employer in north Sussex at the same time as the EG to Three Bridges line was shut, leaving inadequate roads as the only way to travel.
Also, returning to the Lewes to Uckfield argument, I know Lord B and some on here are very enthusiastic about buses. I find the 28/29 from Lewes to Falmer fine, but if I was travelling from Tunbridge Wells or Crowborough to Brighton I would drive to Lewes, park in North Street and take the bus or train from there. The bus is just too uncomfortable for a journey of that length. You might get drivers in urban areas to use buses instead, but for those from outside a rail-based solution is needed, as shown by Nottingham and Manchester.
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total lies Norman has always supported Uckfield-Lewes, what he doesn't su[pport is a vasly more expensive scheme which would eff3ectively bypass Lewes, and cause a major potential threat to the South downs National Park.
Mackenzie
Old Brightonian
Many Brighton fans (including my grandfather) lost their lives in the delays his actions made to the stadium. I'm allowed to feel the way I do, however unpalatable it may seem to you.
Do I wish Baker dead? No. Will I mourn his passing? No way.
Lord Bracknell
On fire
Even if an economic case can be made for re-opening the Lewes - Uckfield line (and Connex tried to make a case - as part of their last franchise bid - for running all Eastbourne - Victoria trains via Uckfield, to free up capacity on the Brighton Main Line), I'd still give priority to other investment opportunities in South London (for example, dealing with the pinch point north of Croydon). BML2 is a crazy idea, however you look at it, though.
Not Andy Naylor
Well-known member
Reopening the old Lewes-Uckfield line where possible and reconnecting it via Hamsey has some economic logic and would be relatively cheap. BML2 involves tunnelling and therefore wouldn't be.
Uter
Well-known member
The problem for him is that his scheme can only possibly make economic sense if it's linked to measures to create more train paths through South London. That's why he's come up with the idea of a tunnel under Canary Wharf to Stratford (which would cost billions). But even if this tunnel, or any alternative (more plausible) scheme, went ahead in London, it alone might allow enough additional London to Brighton trains to run on the existing route to satisfy decades of future passenger growth, without the need for BML2, especially if and when ERTMS is implemented.
Comedy Steve
We're f'ing brilliant
Isn't the whole point behind BML2 that the London to Brighton line is hitting full capacity and this is about the future? In that currently it's not commercially viable, but soon it will have to be, else growth in the south will be throttled?
I'm all for it, sounds a great solution.
I'm all for it, sounds a great solution.