NORMAN BAKER! Good or bad MP?

[Gwylan]

Looking at the list of Lewes MPs, can anyone explain why Sir Tufton Beamish's father ceased to be an MP in 1931 and came back in 1936. It can't be because he lost because it was a Conservative who replaced him, nor did they have deselection then. Any of the Lewes residents know?

As for De Vecchi, she deserves all she gets. Simster's right: you can't compare her to the FPC, who were only fighting their corner. She was manipulative, devious and full of spiteful dirty tricks.While we won't be able to stop her, I hope we cause as much misery as possible.

I wonder if this little spat will feature in Private Eye's Rotten Boroughs.The writer appears to live in Lewes, or very near, and has been stridently anti-Falmer. He 's normally keen to expose councillors' hypocrisy and abuse of authority, something tells me he won't be in a hurry this time.

 

[Dandyman]

The view I take is that Lewes MPs often have funny names. I thought Sir Tufton Beamish ruled in a hang 'em, flog 'em sort of way. From that website, I have now learned of the existence of a Viscount Cantelupe MP. This wins hands down. If he wasn't on Herbie Hancock's original recording of Canteloupe Island he should have been.

Dandyman, are you moving from champagne-quaffing, hell-raising socialism to woolly-minded soft liberalism?

Tufton Beamish (later Baron Chelwood) had the odd "One Nation" moment including supporting the nursery school at Wallands but prior to Baker most of the Lewes MPs have treated the seat as little more than a country retreat.

The Lib Dems are not going to win my vote but they have been more progressive than Labour on a number of issues IMO including civil liberties, Iraq and some aspects of public transport.

 

[Dandyman]

Looking at the list of Lewes MPs, can anyone explain why Sir Tufton Beamish's father ceased to be an MP in 1931 and came back in 1936. It can't be because he lost because it was a Conservative who replaced him, nor did they have deselection then. Any of the Lewes residents know?

Not sure but the 1931 Election was contested at the height of the Depression and resulted in a National government. The Election fought by "National Conservative" and "National Labour" candidates and it may be that the Rear Admiral did not want to be part of that arrangement. Only a guess, mind you.

 

[Gwylan]

Not sure but the 1931 Election was contested at the height of the Depression and resulted in a National government. The Election fought by "National Conservative" and "National Labour" candidates and it may be that the Rear Admiral did not want to be part of that arrangement. Only a guess, mind you.

There were splits in the Labour and Liberal parties over the National Government but AFAIK there were no pro or anti National Government Tories. The government, although led by a Labour PM was a Tory government in all but name (bit like today really) so I'd be amazed if a Conservative MP didn't want to be part of it.

 

[Ringmer Seagull]

Norman Baker is the man who went on record as saying that he would rather see the Albion go to the wall than get Falmer. For that alone I can`t forgive him.

That aside he`s an unashamed publicity seeker. I remember laughing out loud once when I heard a news item on the radio saying that he had upset the people of Tasmania (!!) by wading in on some local issue that frankly had nothing to do with him.

 

[Danny-Boy]

As a constituency MP, he's probably among the hardest working. Let's face it, if you're a venal, career obsessed, power-crazed politico you're hardly likely to join the Lib Dems, are you?

I think he was very misguided over Falmer but he had a particular view and he stuck to it, and from what I recall he was gracious in defeat.

I'd vote for him (a) because of his consituency work and (b) he's the only real alternative to the Tories in Lewes. But if the Lib Dems are planning to prop up a minority Tory government in the event of a hung Parliament, sorry, but he loses my vote.

I went to a Q and A session by Nick Clegg in Eastbourne last thursday night, and when he was asked who he'd support in the event of a hung parliameent with neither of the two main parties getting an overall majority, he said he'd wait to see if the party with the largest number of seats (Con or Lab but let's face it, it looks like Con) could form a government without the LDs.

Then he said it was down to what he thought he could get the best deal for getting as many of the LD policies put into effect.
I remember what happened in 1974, then we ended up with the Lib-Lab pact, and eventually Mrs Thatcher....

 

[Danny-Boy]

Norman Baker is the man who went on record as saying that he would rather see the Albion go to the wall than get Falmer. For that alone I can`t forgive him.

That aside he`s an unashamed publicity seeker. I remember laughing out loud once when I heard a news item on the radio saying that he had upset the people of Tasmania (!!) by wading in on some local issue that frankly had nothing to do with him.

That was about the creation of a load of hydro-electric stations which involved flooding a load of untouched Tasmanian forest. The Taswegians are not quite as concerned about global warming and carbon footprints as some others I could name. Apparently they put out a virtual fatwa on the leader of the Green Party in Australia.

 

[Danny-Boy]

There were splits in the Labour and Liberal parties over the National Government but AFAIK there were no pro or anti National Government Tories. The government, although led by a Labour PM was a Tory government in all but name (bit like today really) so I'd be amazed if a Conservative MP didn't want to be part of it.

One amazing fact I discovered while wikipediing some history is that the Conservative MP Stanley Baldwin who I think was PM from about 1934 to 1938 had a son Oliver, who at the same time was sitting as a Labour MP - when he wasn't following Oswald Mosley that is.

Apparently the two Baldwins continued to talk to each other, even when Stanley found out his son was openly gay as well. However Rudyard Kipling who was Baldwin's first cousin openly attacked young Oliver for his decline in moral standards.

When Kipling died Ollie attacked him in print, another scandal. He eventually became a Minister in Attlee's government after the War but succeeded to the Barony, then again created a scandal when he was shipped off to the West Indies to be a governor of some island. He took his longterm boyfriend with him, the locals didn't like it and he was recalled.

 

[Gwylan]

One amazing fact I discovered while wikipediing some history is that the Conservative MP Stanley Baldwin who I think was PM from about 1934 to 1938 had a son Oliver, who at the same time was sitting as a Labour MP - when he wasn't following Oswald Mosley that is.

Apparently the two Baldwins continued to talk to each other, even when Stanley found out his son was openly gay as well. However Rudyard Kipling who was Baldwin's first cousin openly attacked young Oliver for his decline in moral standards.

When Kipling died Ollie attacked him in print, another scandal. He eventually became a Minister in Attlee's government after the War but succeeded to the Barony, then again created a scandal when he was shipped off to the West Indies to be a governor of some island. He took his longterm boyfriend with him, the locals didn't like it and he was recalled.

Marvellous stuff - I didn't know any of that (although I think Kipling was Baldwin's mother's cousin not Baldwin's cousin).

I've also found that Sir Tufton Beamish's daughter is a Labour candidate in Scotland - I wonder how many MPs have followed in a parent's footsteps - but for a different party.

EDIT: Just checked and DB was right, Kipling was Stanley Baldwin's first cousin

 

[Danny-Boy]

Tufton Beamish (later Baron Chelwood) had the odd "One Nation" moment including supporting the nursery school at Wallands but prior to Baker most of the Lewes MPs have treated the seat as little more than a country retreat.

The Lib Dems are not going to win my vote but they have been more progressive than Labour on a number of issues IMO including civil liberties, Iraq and some aspects of public transport.

Tufton Beamish did however have one moment of glory in the late 1960's when he openly attacked the British Government policy of handing over Aldabra Island in the Indian Ocean to the USA so their B-52s could refuel there en route to bomb Vietnam.

The Labour Defence Minister or whatever they called it then was furious, as the Foreign Office had agreed it with the Yanks even though Harold Wilson as PM wisely kept us out of Vietnam.

The inhabitants of Aldabra were a particular kind of giant tortoise plus vast flocks of birds. They won out; losers were the inhabitanyts of nearby Diego Garcia - homeless to this day - who were shipped off their tropical idyll into slums in Mauritius.

The Labour Defence Minister met his obligations, he is now Lord Healey of Riddesden, resident of Alfriston, member of the South Downs Conservation society and I believe a past opponent of Falmer....

 

[Storer68]

Sir Tufton Beamish MP (Lord Chelwood)
Tufton Beamish was born on 27 January 1917, the older of two sons of Rear-Admiral T P H Beamish (see below). He was educated at Kings Mead Preparatory School, Seaford; Stowe School; and Sandhurst Military Academy, taking part in a public schools expedition to explore Newfoundland in 1934
He was commissioned in the Royal Northumberland Fusiliers in 1937, seeing service in Palestine in 1937-39, France and Belgium in 1940, Singapore and India, 1942-43, North Africa in 1943-44, and Italy in 1944. He was awarded the Military Cross for his part in the evacuation from Dunkirk, and had a notable escape by rowing boat from the Japanese when Singapore was taken
He was elected Conservative Member of Parliament for Lewes in 1945 in succession to his father, remaining so until 1974. He was knighted in 1961, and in 1974 was created a Life Peer as Lord Chelwood of Lewes. Sir Tufton's distinguished parliamentary career, and his involvement in Europe, are illustrated in the papers listed below, while a full list of dates and offices can be seen in Who's Who (qv)
Of particular interest here are the files relating to individual subjects, for example the alleged repatriation of Soviet Nationals from Austria and Hungary from 1945; his rôle as an observer of the 1980 Zimbabwe General Election; and (lastly) his opposition to the Poll Tax in 1988. He also had a strong interest in Middle East affairs, particularly in what he saw as the unfair treatment of the Palestinian people. He published books and many articles (most represented here), and had a particular interest in nature conservation. After his father's death he lived at Chelworth, Chelwood Gate, and then from 1976 at Plover's Meadow, Blackboys. He died on 6 April 1989
The family correspondence in particular (CLW/1/6) makes some reference to his only brother, Capt John Beamish, who was with Tufton at Stowe, and who served in India during the last War. He was killed in the advance on Mandalay in 1945. There were also sisters - 'Vi' (Vivien), and 'Gilly' (Gillian). Gillian was married first in the name of O'Connor, and then to the Italian sculptor Enzo Plazzotta, who designed the memorial in Lewes commemorating the Battle of Lewes in 1264. The papers also make some mention of his aunt (his mother's sister) Lady Hamilton (née Eleanora Simon), of Cransford Hall, Saxmundham, Suffolk
Tufton Beamish was married in 1950 to Janet Stevenson of New York, and they had two daughters - Claudia (1952) and Andrea (1955, who married Christopher Plowman). The marriage was dissolved in 1973, and she died in 1975. He was remarried in 1975 to Mrs Pia McHenry (née von Roretz), who survives him

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I'd be fascinated to know what dodgy dealing is alleged to have happened at Beddingham. His house was knocked down to build the bridge over the railway.

wrong - not his house then (insider information, he made a fortune selling it just before the info about it needing to be demolished for the road improvements news was made public)

 

[dougdeep]

It was COLONEL Sir Tufton Beamish by the way.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

wrong - not his house then (insider information, he made a fortune selling it just before the info about it needing to be demolished for the road improvements news was made public)

Eh? The news about the demolition was known years before it actually happened.

 

[Danny-Boy]

wrong - not his house then (insider information, he made a fortune selling it just before the info about it needing to be demolished for the road improvements news was made public)

Err- I understood that he never OWNED the house. He just rented it, and moved out some time before it was demolished. It was known since about 2003 that the cottages would go, that was the preferred option for the fly-over rather than across the fields to the north of the old road.

Like your namesake Guy, I think you've been found out.

 

[The Tassie Seagull]

That was about the creation of a load of hydro-electric stations which involved flooding a load of untouched Tasmanian forest. The Taswegians are not quite as concerned about global warming and carbon footprints as some others I could name. Apparently they put out a virtual fatwa on the leader of the Green Party in Australia.

He was actually down here complaining about Forestry Tasmania's old growth logging practices, even though about 70% of this can't be touched.

Green issues are very deviceve down here, with the Greens on one side and the loggers on the other. In fact it cost Labour the federal election in 2004 when the forestry unions backed John Howard after Labour said they would lock up more forest. I would say that there are a great number of Taswegians who are very concerned about green issues. The Australian green party (the leader of which is Tasmanian) was born out of the Hydro demos in the 80's, and they always poll strongly here. The latest battle is about a new pulp mill which has been given planning permission (about 20mins from my house).

Can't say I am a greeny, but I know plenty who are, but just thought I should put in a more balanced point of view.

Still don't know why Baker thought it was anything to do with him though. Press coverage was minimal, mainly along the lines of "What the hell is this guy doing coming over here - what's it got to do with him?"

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

After the MP's expenses story broke - he had one of his apologists on here justifying his claims for all his food when he is in London. Twat.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Err- I understood that he never OWNED the house. He just rented it, and moved out some time before it was demolished. It was known since about 2003 that the cottages would go, that was the preferred option for the fly-over rather than across the fields to the north of the old road.

Like your namesake Guy, I think you've been found out.

The first part of this post is wrong. He did own the house at Beddingham.

The rest is true.

 

[countrygull]

He stood up against the Albion in favour of his consituents in Falmer, which is what an MP would be expected to do: especially when, at the time, there was a chance of relocating the stadium. As it was when the final decision came through, he said `enough is enough` and he agreed to work with the club, rather than continuing guerilla tactics. I think that's doing reasonable work as an MP.

 

[Brovion]

He stood up against the Albion in favour of his consituents in Falmer, which is what an MP would be expected to do: especially when, at the time, there was a chance of relocating the stadium. As it was when the final decision came through, he said `enough is enough` and he agreed to work with the club, rather than continuing guerilla tactics. I think that's doing reasonable work as an MP.

What about his consituents who were in favour of the stadium? (He doesn't just represent Falmer village) What about the lies he told such as the hotel the club were planning to build? What about the fact he DIDN'T say 'enough is enough' in anything like a concilatory manner and he and remains an opponent of the project (and the club) to this day?

He's scum. End of.