[Help] Non footy...any legal eagles? Advice please

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Good advice. Thanks. We're quite prepared to do that and, you have to believe this, are law abiding and not given to lying to protect our driving licences.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Thank you mate. Truly, thank you. I will do this today. And thanks to all of you who have helped. All she wanted was to have the opportunity to show the court the lengths we have gone to to identify who it was. We genuinely don't know. If they refuse to accept that and THEN fine her and give her points equivalent to those given by causing death by careless driving for a minor speeding offence we will accept it in good grace.

It's not being allowed to offer any defence that's so seemingly unfair.

 

[Baldseagull]

Thank you mate. Truly, thank you. I will do this today. And thanks to all of you who have helped. All she wanted was to have the opportunity to show the court the lengths we have gone to to identify who it was. We genuinely don't know. If they refuse to accept that and THEN fine her and give her points equivalent to those given by causing death by careless driving for a minor speeding offence we will accept it in good grace.

It's not being allowed to offer any defence that's so seemingly unfair.

good advice can be found here http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=5

A few years ago now, but a fairly senior Police Officer used the defence that neither he or his wife could be sure who was driving, and so neither party was given a fine or points. If you get things reset to the point of naming the driver, this example can be mentioned when offering the same defence, and suggesting that you should not be treated any differently than a Police Officer.

 

[OzMike]

This is very poor advice.

It might have worked in OzMike's case as it was a hire vehicle and depending on when it was the law might have been different - the law has recently been tightened up to avoid this sort of thing. When you are the registered keeper you are responsible for knowing who is driving the car - it will not go away.

Think what you like, if you are going to get solicitors involved you may as well accept the points, if you have none or only a few, as they will all disappear all at the same time in 3 years and pay the fine.
Can't see solicitors being a cheaper alternative and would probably cost more overall.
The fact that you do not have to give information that might incriminate yourself still stands, as I know someone there that played the same game recently and got the same result I did, but as I said, think what you like.
As long as the person in the photo is not identifiable, it could be anyone.

 

[LadySeagull]

Can't see solicitors being a cheaper alternative and would probably cost more overall.

Yes but they may well not need a solicitor.

good advice can be found here http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=5

This.

Get yourself over to pepipoo forum:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=5

And ask them for advice about the Statutory Declaration needed.

They are the experts and it's free, solid advice from people who know what they are talking about. Some are legally qualified and some are ex-Police, I understand; there is plenty of knowledge given freely by all regulars and they share a genuine intent to support the motorist against injustice.

 

[GT49er]

few years ago now, but a fairly senior Police Officer used the defence that neither he or his wife could be sure who was driving, and so neither party was given a fine or points. If you get things reset to the point of naming the driver, this example can be mentioned when offering the same defence, and suggesting that you should not be treated any differently than a Police Officer.

The most significant factor in that example is "Senior Police Officer" which doubtless had a huge bearing on the case! Anyway, I believe they've modified the law since then.

 

[McTavish]

Think what you like, if you are going to get solicitors involved you may as well accept the points, if you have none or only a few, as they will all disappear all at the same time in 3 years and pay the fine.
Can't see solicitors being a cheaper alternative and would probably cost more overall.
The fact that you do not have to give information that might incriminate yourself still stands, as I know someone there that played the same game recently and got the same result I did, but as I said, think what you like.
As long as the person in the photo is not identifiable, it could be anyone.

Yes, but in this case the car is identifiable and so the registered keeper gets 6 points and a v large fine for failure to disclose whereas accepting the speeding fine results in 3 points and a smaller fine. Just saying nothing is a really bad idea.

 

[carlzeiss]

My advice would be to stick to the speed limits when driving on a public highway .

 

[The Clamp]

When I lived in Brighton I hired a van and went through a speed trap which took a picture, I was only going about 7 mph over, no excuse I know.
Anyway, they checked with the van hire company and found that I had hired it and sent me the demand with a photo on it.
I had a beard at that time and wore sunglasses, it was a cold bright morning and I had a black beanie on as well, the picture could have been anyone, they threatened me with all sorts of stuff.
I stuck to my guns and wouldn't give any information that might incriminate myself, so I didn't say anything, the van hire guy said that it was me who drove the van out of the yard, but he didn't know if anyone else drove it after I had left.
They kept on at me and I said nothing, anymore points would have brought me close to maximum.
They got fed up and left me alone in the end and I never heard anymore about it.
If you don't know who was driving say nothing, don't say it was you, but don't say it wasn't, say nothing.

To be fair sounds like you could do with a bit of a lesson. Being at near maximum points and then speeding again in a hire vehicle AND then not owning up when someone else could have easily ended up with criminal charges and/or losing their job is a gutless move. Cheap.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Think what you like, if you are going to get solicitors involved you may as well accept the points, if you have none or only a few, as they will all disappear all at the same time in 3 years and pay the fine.
Can't see solicitors being a cheaper alternative and would probably cost more overall.
The fact that you do not have to give information that might incriminate yourself still stands, as I know someone there that played the same game recently and got the same result I did, but as I said, think what you like.
As long as the person in the photo is not identifiable, it could be anyone.

It's not a game, and there is a charge of not supplying the name, which is what has happened. The only defence against that is showing you have taken every possible step to identify the driver. Proof of that is very difficult.

 

[The Clamp]

Does nobody else find it odd that the OP and his wife cannot remember who was driving the car?

I'd sit down, think about where we weredriving, if I was on my own, what were we both doing that day, appointments we may have each had etc. You'd soon come up with an answer. And why not just one of you admit to it if you knew it was one or the other of you?
Sound to me like you've tried the old deny and not face the consequences routine and come a cropper.

 

[dazzer6666]

Does nobody else find it odd that the OP and his wife cannot remember who was driving the car?

That was my first thought.............imagine the notice has the precise time/date on it, would've thought most people would be fairy able to recall the journey and who was driving.

 

[OzMike]

To be fair sounds like you could do with a bit of a lesson. Being at near maximum points and then speeding again in a hire vehicle AND then not owning up when someone else could have easily ended up with criminal charges and/or losing their job is a gutless move. Cheap.

Not sure where you got that end bit from, but you do what you got to do and if you are a driver and are telling me that at least a few times a day you don't stray a little bit over the limit then I won't believe you.

 

[OzMike]

Good advice. Thanks. We're quite prepared to do that and, you have to believe this, are law abiding and not given to lying to protect our driving licences.

Didn't lie, just didn't say anything.

 

[OzMike]

It's not a game, and there is a charge of not supplying the name, which is what has happened. The only defence against that is showing you have taken every possible step to identify the driver. Proof of that is very difficult.

Circumstances dictate.

 

[Baldseagull]

Does nobody else find it odd that the OP and his wife cannot remember who was driving the car?

I'd sit down, think about where we weredriving, if I was on my own, what were we both doing that day, appointments we may have each had etc. You'd soon come up with an answer. And why not just one of you admit to it if you knew it was one or the other of you?
Sound to me like you've tried the old deny and not face the consequences routine and come a cropper.

No, especially if it was local and at a weekend. I had the same situation, and only by the time on a shopping receipt could we work it out, if I had not kept the receipt I would not have been able to know for sure which of us it was. It was her by the way.

 

[GT49er]

No, especially if it was local and at a weekend. I had the same situation, and only by the time on a shopping receipt could we work it out, if I had not kept the receipt I would not have been able to know for sure which of us it was. It was her by the way.

Absolutely. If, as in my case, it's at a busy time for the family and self and daughter are dashing all over the place, it's very possible that a few weeks later you won't have a clue who was driving. This actually happened to us - I phoned them to see if we could get any help in identifying the driver. They weren't any help (so presumably there wasn't a photo) so eventually we more or less eeny-meeny-miny-mo'd it and I did the speed driving course (which was offered as an alternative to 3 points and a fine).

The safer driving course was so f**kin' useful that a month later I had my first ever (thankfully very minor) accident in over 40 years of driving!

 

[Marshy]

i often share driving if its a long journey and would have no idea who was at the wheel at a certain time.

Ask Edna is my advice. I am sure she would be happy to help.

 

[The Clamp]

Not sure where you got that end bit from, but you do what you got to do and if you are a driver and are telling me that at least a few times a day you don't stray a little bit over the limit then I won't believe you.

The end bit basically means the hire company will end up being charged and possibly prosecuted for your wrongdoing with somebody potentially losing their job over it, all because you wouldn't own up. I'm sure I do go over the speed limit, what I wouldn't do if I was caught is keep my mouth shut while others potentially took the rap for my mistake/slack attitude.

 

[Triggaaar]

Long story short. On Friday she got a letter from the court saying she had willingly failed to name the driver and was slapped with six points and an £845.00 fine. We hadn't recieved a summons (apparently they don't need to issue one) and they had found her guilty by omission.

Eh? They had a court hearing which she wasn't invited to?

The problem with using a solicitor is the amount they charge, so good idea asking here first. If you are in the right though, perhaps they can claim their costs against the other side?