[Albion] No red card?

[timbha]

I remember at the Goldstone many years ago, v Bolton I think that Nobby Horton made a magnificent diving save on the line that any goalie would be proud of.
Penalty and sent off I think.
I was in the North Stand right behind it. Does anyone else remember that?

Rod Thomas did this at Gillingham. One of the highlights of the season.

 

[Triggaaar]

It was Undav's shot

Oh yeah

but the keeper was behind the ball and *might* have saved it.

And the one that got Murray sent off also might not have gone in. And when someone is through on goal and fouled before they shoot, that's a pen and red card if the foul is deliberate, despite not knowing if they would have scored or not.

With the Murray one, I remember it was going in and there was nobody behind him.

Stockdale was behind him. 19:34 here:

The bigger issue, for me, I the one that wasn't given as Oliver clearly signalled he had his hands down by his sides...when he clearly didn't.

I also agree with that. Defenders should not have their arms out to the side, making their bodies bigger.

 

[Da Man Clay]

It was Undav's shot, but the keeper was behind the ball and *might* have saved it. Either that or he's seen Undav before.

With the Murray one, I remember it was going in and there was nobody behind him.

The bigger issue, for me, I the one that wasn't given as Oliver clearly signalled he had his hands down by his sides...when he clearly didn't.

Surely yesterday’s that it wasn’t a clear intentional denial of a goal scoring opportunity? It’s just his hand is an in a unnatural position and not that he has tried to save it like Willian did. Whether or not the keeper behind is an irrelevance

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

I think the reason a red card wasn't given was because the defender had his back turned to the ball, so although his arm was in an un-natural position and it's a penalty, the ref decided it wasn't a deliberate hand ball because of the fact he wasn't facing the ball (although that said when watching the reply the player is looking at the ball just before the shot and sticks his arm out and turns his head and body late, so it could be argued he did know what he was doing).

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Do you think that other defender could have got a challenge in before Buonanotte managed to get a shot away? To me that seems unlikely, given that he'd already got his shot away.

Presumably the ref had a different opinion. From the above it sounds like he is given the responsibility to make that call and I don’t actually see any other way.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Rod Thomas did this at Gillingham. One of the highlights of the season.

And Kevin Bremner at the Goldstone in, I think, a pre season friendly. Got away with it.

 

[WATFORD zero]

From where I was sat behind and slightly left of it, the handball was absolutely deliberate but the keeper 'may' have saved it. I thought deliberately denying a goal scoring opportunity was a red

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I remember at the Goldstone many years ago, v Bolton I think that Nobby Horton made a magnificent diving save on the line that any goalie would be proud of.
Penalty and sent off I think.
I was in the North Stand right behind it. Does anyone else remember that?

I remember that as well. Can't recall if he was sent off though.

 

[macbeth]

From where I was sat behind and slightly left of it, the handball was absolutely deliberate but the keeper 'may' have saved it. I thought deliberately denying a goal scoring opportunity was a red

this is what i don’t get though. if you take a man down through on goal, you’re last man and it’s a red, even though the striker still has to beat the keeper, making the keeper’s presence irrelevant in terms of the law. and yet when it’s a shot blocked by an arm the presence of the keeper is a decisive factor

 

[GrossTurn]

this is what i don’t get though. if you take a man down through on goal, you’re last man and it’s a red, even though the striker still has to beat the keeper, making the keeper’s presence irrelevant in terms of the law. and yet when it’s a shot blocked by an arm the presence of the keeper is a decisive factor

It shouldn’t be, and I don’t think that’s why the ref didn’t send him off. No-one can in anyway deny it was a goalscoring opportunity, that part is obvious. It must come down to the ref deciding that Hickey didn’t deliberately save the ball with his arm. Not enough to not give the pen, of course, but enough to not send him off. This bit still feels a very grey area, but I’m pretty sure if Oliver had to come out and explain his reasoning it’d be along those lines, nothing to do with Undav’s shot still having to beat the keeper or anything.

 

[Bodian]

I think the reason a red card wasn't given was because the defender had his back turned to the ball, so although his arm was in an un-natural position and it's a penalty, the ref decided it wasn't a deliberate hand ball because of the fact he wasn't facing the ball (although that said when watching the reply the player is looking at the ball just before the shot and sticks his arm out and turns his head and body late, so it could be argued he did know what he was doing).

If it wasn't a deliberate hand-ball, he shouldn't have got booked for it.

 

[Curious Orange]

Can I ask about our corner taking on the subject of rules.
Ball is placed in the corner with the usual 1mm just over the line and a second player is stood over the goal line and off the pitch which, in therory, is in front of the ball. The ball is knocked back a yard and the second player enters the pitch in what would be an offside position and kicks it into the centre. Whilst it must be legal, why?

The linesman was actually quite hot on making sure the second player had their feet on the line, so they weren't coming on to the field of play after the corner was taken as the line is part of the playing area.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Rod Thomas did this at Gillingham. One of the highlights of the season.

It wasn’t one of the highlights - it was probably the only highlight of that season!

 

[nsclurker]

Highly debatable as to whether the Murray one was going in, and Stockdake was behind him. If that was a red, then yesterday’s should have been as well.

Here’s the link at about 8 mins for the Murray incident, but worth watching the entire video just because it’s marvellous:

I stand corrected, thanks.

In that case it would be deliberate (both hands up to block the ball) vs. un-natural arm position (non-deliberate) in Oliver's opinion, yesterday.

Not saying he was correct, just what he might have use as his reasoning. Which was especially poor in the 2nd half..

 

[nsclurker]

Surely yesterday’s that it wasn’t a clear intentional denial of a goal scoring opportunity? It’s just his hand is an in a unnatural position and not that he has tried to save it like Willian did. Whether or not the keeper behind is an irrelevance

Possibly. That's the big problem. Absolutely zero feedback from ref or VAR on the decision-making leaves a vacuum for everyone else to try and work out the what, whys, and wherefores. Needs to be done the way it is in Rugby, with refs miced up to explain each decision. They should be explaining them on the pitch, anyway, so just needs the audio feed to be used.

 

[Eeyore]

There are huge grey areas. I thought he would be sent off but wasn't. There are arguments for and against.

It is what it is. It will never be perfect as humans aren't perfect in their judgement.

 

[beardy gull]

From where I was sat behind and slightly left of it, the handball was absolutely deliberate but the keeper 'may' have saved it. I thought deliberately denying a goal scoring opportunity was a red

It is. But Hickey didn’t deny a goal scoring opportunity. Undav had the shot. If Hickey had handled and prevented Undav shooting that would have been a red card.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

The handball looks deliberate to me.
He extends his arm towards the ball.

Red card all day long.
I doubt it would have made any difference though.