No excuses from Brighton managers

[Goldstone Rapper]

Spot on. Large crowds and big budgets are no guarantee of success - although they DO help! If that's was all that mattered there would be no point in playing for actual league points, they'd just allocate positions based on crowds and cash. No one can say what next season will bring. Sure we should do better than say Yeovil, but even that can't be taken as a 100% given.

Very good post.

 

[wellquickwoody]

This is the sort of attitude that leads to clubs doing a Portsmouth and getting into financial trouble.

No it doesn't, overspending does.

As a club we need to start believing in ourselves as a major championship force, and stop harking back to being a tinpot, two bob community club from a ramshackle converted athletics track.

We are Brighton, be proud!

 

[Rugrat]

I think palace have exploited the very poor quality in the championship this season. Hull and Cardiff hardly ooze quality, hull in fact look exceptionally ordinary. The relegated teams this year SHOULD have done much better. Wolves have a massive fan base and sold £23m worth of players in the summer. Bolton's squad was largely premier league quality, as was blackburn's. these clubs, and the relegated clubs this season will all do better. We've ****ed up our chance in my opinion. We will be in this league for a few more years, at least until revenue from the stadium really starts putting us into the higher end of the table for budgets. I'm not expecting a top 6 finish next season.

Agree, it was a "poor" league this year and the task is going to get way more difficult even without the current uncertainty

Get real.. Having 30,000 through the turnstiles means nothing... Look at other clubs in the Championship: Leeds, Forest, Sheff Wed, Ipswich, Leicester, Bolton, Derby, Birmingham, Middlesboro - these are big clubs with large fan bases - Large crowds or lots of money are no guarantee of success. How long our fan base will stay at its present level is anyone's guess, but it's not going to last forever. Palace struck lucky - the playoffs are a lottery. Poyet began to create a solid squad structure, and that is why we were successful this year. What will happen next season? Who knows? What players will remain? What players will be sold? Who knows? Will the squad click together or fall apart? Who knows? That's football... we'll just have to wait and see. What effect will the new financial rules have, now that we are over the maximum debt level? Who knows?

Agree this too ... no real relationship that I'm aware of between attendances and success, except that success may lead to larger attendances. If gives us supporters a nice feeling and I s'pose some can gloat about it but that's really about it

 

[The Merry Prankster]

The suspended manager's absurd sense of ENTITLEMENT to a top Premier League job put paid to that. Anybody normal manager would have thrown heart and soul into the task of making the Albion manager's job that top Premier League job instead of regarding it as some shabby temporary fill-in of a job til he got the job he thinks is his by right. What a delusional wanker.

I agree.

The attitude of the manager rubs of on the players. He was completely unable to install any pride or passion in his team (as opposed to Worzel) and that counts for a lot however that may be dismissed by technocrat managers of the Poyet, Wenger type.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

The suspended manager's absurd sense of ENTITLEMENT to a top Premier League job put paid to that. Anybody normal manager would have thrown heart and soul into the task of making the Albion manager's job that top Premier League job instead of regarding it as some shabby temporary fill-in of a job til he got the job he thinks is his by right. What a delusional wanker.

Well put, and I totally agree.

I also trust Tony to do what is in the best interests of BHAFC.

 

[drew]

With this attitude you display a lack of knowledge of this club and no doubt you failed to predict Brighton selling out Falmer. If you knew your history Brighton got 30,000 crowds in the Third Division South. Brighton's problems are as a result of a failure to expect the success that the size of the fanbase should require. This has now ended. Brighton expect and require, not ask and request. Little clubs like Palace and Wigan can succeed on small gates. There are no more excuses. As for Leeds, well if this doesnt alter your mindst then nothing will, Leeds are a club that get 8000/to 10000 less than us every week. Now in their history they have won in comparison to us? This has to end, we now require success that matches the size of our support . Just imagine if we actually did have some success.

I follow and those other sides have had success (which in part explains their support). Brighton have not had success but still get 8000 to 10000 more than Leeds. Time to change the mentality. We expect. Follow?

I love the way you pick a period over 50 years ago to highlight our support and use that as a justification to demand success but you fail to make any comparison to other teams at the time and what support they had. Also, the last few years of the Division Three south saw Brighton having successful seasons culminating in winning the division. Since then, what have our average attendances been? 76/77, 77/78 and 78/79 were golden years in terms of attendance but since then, including when we were in the top flite, we have very rarely sold out. The last two years are still the honeymoon period for the Amex and the final positions at the end of each season have probably surpassed the expectations of most supporters if asked in August 2011.

Large crowds do not guarantee success, ask any Newcastle fan. Over the whole season, we were two goals short of promotion! Having said that, it does seem that, going into the playoffs, Poyet was not as motivated as he should have been.

Going back to the manager situation, I think any manager, and for that matter any player, will come here and will be striving for success because if they don't, then their next move won't be up, it will be down the footballing ladder. However, they are, and will always be in the main, employees of a club and not lifelong fans.

 

[Simster]

It is depressing how some people are re-writing history based on a miserable play off defeat to the Nigels and their subsequent success. For all his faults, Poyet remains one of the best managers we've ever had here. I can't really take the OP seriously - he set his stall out by concluding we are bigger than Leeds. Leeds FFS! We are a middle-sized provincial club enjoying the best gates in our history. Putting it into context, I stumbled across the Leicester board a week ago and they were debating the idea of Gus coming in now that Pearson had gone, and a fair few of them believed that Leicester was a step up from Brighton! That might be wrong too (we are clearly of a similar size) but it does go to show how deluded some football fans are, and some of ours are no different.

Conclusion. Rein in the hurt for now. Our time will definitely come.

 

[LamieRobertson]

It is depressing how some people are re-writing history based on a miserable play off defeat to the Nigels and their subsequent success. For all his faults, Poyet remains one of the best managers we've ever had here. I can't really take the OP seriously - he set his stall out by concluding we are bigger than Leeds. Leeds FFS! We are a middle-sized provincial club enjoying the best gates in our history. Putting it into context, I stumbled across the Leicester board a week ago and they were debating the idea of Gus coming in now that Pearson had gone, and a fair few of them believed that Leicester was a step up from Brighton! That might be wrong too (we are clearly of a similar size) but it does go to show how deluded some football fans are, and some of ours are no different.

Conclusion. Rein in the hurt for now. Our time will definitely come.

Seconded

 

[Rugrat]

[/QUOTE]I stumbled across the Leicester board a week ago and they were debating the idea of Gus coming in now that Pearson had gone[/QUOTE]

Am I in a time warp?

 

[westy]

If a club like Palace who struggle to get 14000/15000 to pay to watch them can get promoted then as fans of a club who can get 30000 through the door without much difficulty then we should not take any excuses from our managers. Poyet came close but fell short. If Poyet goes then the next manager should be greeted with a roar of expectation, and he will have to be big enough to deal with that in my opinion. Excuses wont wash anymore. This club should never be below clubs with the fan base of Palace and Wigan. I hope Bloom is hurting today and that he comes back with a real anger and desire. I hope that is then drilled into the next manager and all the " we are so lucky to have Poyet" mentality is consigned to history. Brighton should in my view start to expect and require, not ask and hope.

Great post.

 

[Guinness Boy]

If a club like Palace who struggle to get 14000/15000 to pay to watch them can get promoted then as fans of a club who can get 30000 through the door without much difficulty then we should not take any excuses from our managers. Poyet came close but fell short. If Poyet goes then the next manager should be greeted with a roar of expectation, and he will have to be big enough to deal with that in my opinion. Excuses wont wash anymore. This club should never be below clubs with the fan base of Palace and Wigan. I hope Bloom is hurting today and that he comes back with a real anger and desire. I hope that is then drilled into the next manager and all the " we are so lucky to have Poyet" mentality is consigned to history. Brighton should in my view start to expect and require, not ask and hope.

We don't get 30,000 though do we? We have sold this number of tickets twice but take off the away fans and the no shows and it's more like 24,000, half of whom are off as soon as we concede or the trains look like they might be getting a bit busy. This is not The Goldstone in 1978 and as ever you are living in the past.

As for the season just gone, we'd have gone up automatically if we'd just taken a few more chances and the defence had concentrated for a full 90 mins. We were a few lapses of concentration away from the best side in that league.

Now the team will probably break up and whoever comes in will need a season of consolidation. We'll do much worse next season in an even poorer quality league unless the club pull their finger out.

 

[Working class pride]

I'm pleased the mindset of most on here is the same. If we had been competing against say a Villa who had dropped down but who were pulling in 35000 / 40000 then I would not expect to finish above them. But Poyet was not, a club who struggled to get 15000 through the door beat him to promotion and all he tried to blame his budget. We had players in the squad like Bridge from man City, a keeper from United and of course Vicente. Poyet failed to gain promotion and got beaten to it by a smaller club. I supported Poyet and liked his football but on results and so far (as he has not gone yet) he has failed at Brighton. It is not acceptable for a club with capacity crowds all season, gates averaging 27000 and when expanded, 30,000 to get beaten to promotion by a smaller club. Brighton no longer want a large support in the lower leagues, we now demand the players understand they are in the big time at Brighton and they have pressure on them to bring success. The next manager had better be big enough to understand that. For those that will make excuse after excuse then just ask yourself, if Brighton struggled to get 14000 through the door then would you expect promotion? i wouldnt.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I'm pleased the mindset of most on here is the same. If we had been competing against say a Villa who had dropped down but who were pulling in 35000 / 40000 then I would not expect to finish above them. But Poyet was not, a club who struggled to get 15000 through the door beat him to promotion and all he tried to blame his budget. We had players in the squad like Bridge from man City, a keeper from United and of course Vicente. Poyet failed to gain promotion and got beaten to it by a smaller club. I supported Poyet and liked his football but on results and so far (as he has not gone yet) he has failed at Brighton. It is not acceptable for a club with capacity crowds all season, gates averaging 27000 and when expanded, 30,000 to get beaten to promotion by a smaller club. Brighton no longer want a large support in the lower leagues, we now demand the players understand they are in the big time at Brighton and they have pressure on them to bring success. The next manager had better be big enough to understand that. For those that will make excuse after excuse then just ask yourself, if Brighton struggled to get 14000 through the door then would you expect promotion? i wouldnt.

The playoffs are like a cup game. We were at Withdean with 6000 crowd and yet managed to knock a full strength Manchester City out of the Carling cup. It happens.
Howard Wilkinson said once, There are only 2 sorts of managers. Those who have been sacked and those who will be sacked.

 

[Se20]

I'm pleased the mindset of most on here is the same. If we had been competing against say a Villa who had dropped down but who were pulling in 35000 / 40000 then I would not expect to finish above them. But Poyet was not, a club who struggled to get 15000 through the door beat him to promotion and all he tried to blame his budget. We had players in the squad like Bridge from man City, a keeper from United and of course Vicente. Poyet failed to gain promotion and got beaten to it by a smaller club. I supported Poyet and liked his football but on results and so far (as he has not gone yet) he has failed at Brighton. It is not acceptable for a club with capacity crowds all season, gates averaging 27000 and when expanded, 30,000 to get beaten to promotion by a smaller club. Brighton no longer want a large support in the lower leagues, we now demand the players understand they are in the big time at Brighton and they have pressure on them to bring success. The next manager had better be big enough to understand that. For those that will make excuse after excuse then just ask yourself, if Brighton struggled to get 14000 through the door then would you expect promotion? i wouldnt.

Why should you expect success just because you get big gates ?
It doesn't make you odds on for promotion, it creates pressure for the players and new manager if everyone had your mindset .
As much as it pains you to miss out on promotion to a small club, customers don't win anything, a great team spirit does.

 

[Working class pride]

Why should you expect success just because you get big gates ?
It doesn't make you odds on for promotion, it creates pressure for the players and new manager if everyone had your mindset .
As much as it pains you to miss out on promotion to a small club, customers don't win anything, a great team spirit does.

I'm surprised you have not noticed that Hartlepool dont expect the success of Notts County. Notts County dont expect the success of Swindon, Swindon dont expect the success of Leicester who in turn dont expect the success of Spurs who in turn do not expect the success of Man U. Big gates = big club, big club = expectation. Poyet spent his time with his head in the sand about the big gates and expectation at Brighton, the next manager better had be able to see what is in front of him.

 

[Se20]

I'm surprised you have not noticed that Hartlepool dont expect the success of Notts County. Notts County dont expect the success of Swindon, Swindon dont expect the success of Leicester who in turn dont expect the success of Spurs who in turn do not expect the success of Man U. Big gates = big club, big club = expectation. Poyet spent his time with his head in the sand about the big gates and expectation at Brighton, the next manager better had be able to see what is in front of him.

So it's all down to punters through the doors ?
Try telling that to Wolves, big gates and a £20 mill parachute payment, means jack shit if your team ain't up to it.

 

[u'vebeenamexed]

An excellent thread.

I was very much in the Poyet camp however recent events have made me step back a little and contemplate Albion life without Gus. Unfortunately, I do feel that we have just missed an ideal opportunity to gain promotion . The Palace issue rather throws up a smoke screen as had Watford won the play-offs people would have accepted this as they beat us comfortably at the Amex and finished above us - a form of injustice prevails with Palace going up.

I accept that Gus must now go however as he was allowed such a large input into everything concerning the Albion , not just the playing side, I think that a new man will take some time to adjust and bring his own style into the Club. Of course we should expect success but I don't think it is realistic of fair to expect it immediately. Whoever we get in give him a bit of time and our support.

 

[Working class pride]

So it's all down to punters through the doors ?
Try telling that to Wolves, big gates and a £20 mill parachute payment, means jack shit if your team ain't up to it.

Mate you state the bleedin obvious and miss the bleedin obvious. The bleedin obvious is that you win nothing if the team is "not up to it". The bleedin obvious you miss is that Hartlepool dont expect a team better than Notts County, who dont expect a better team than Leicester who dont expect a better team than Spurs who dont expect a better team than Man U. Brighton have always (even when at Withdean) had the largest gates in the division, and this year again topped the league support wise. Again, as through our history, our players let us down and a smaller club who struggled to find 14000 paying punters for many games won promotion. I and many many Brighton fans are calling this a watershed. We now will be telling managers that we expect the success that our crowds deserve and that has to be a good thing. As for your lot, with no debt after your insolvency and the mega bucks heading your way, you are in a very good position.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'm surprised you have not noticed that Hartlepool dont expect the success of Notts County. Notts County dont expect the success of Swindon, Swindon dont expect the success of Leicester who in turn dont expect the success of Spurs who in turn do not expect the success of Man U. Big gates = big club, big club = expectation. Poyet spent his time with his head in the sand about the big gates and expectation at Brighton, the next manager better had be able to see what is in front of him.

Quite. TB is no fool. When he got is Gus we were still playing in front 0f 7000. This time, as several have said, we have more and the club expects more.

Interview, here is what I would ask:

1. Where do you see yourself in 5 years time?
Correct answer: fighting to get the Albion into a European place, win every cup competition we enter, and building for an even better future

2. What do you see as the club's present weaknesses?
Correct answer: we are not yet in the premier league so we don't have the income stream ad cachet to attract good players who will want to play here to win

3. And your solution?
Correct answer: build on the culture of skill we already have to develop a winning mentality, a squad of players who would put their lives on the line for the club

4. And your strategy?
Correct answer: Indoctrinate the players we have, support and reward effort and commitment, replace those who lack the skill (or the effort and commitment) to deliver.

5. And your tactics?
Correct answer: use my knowhow, my passion, my connections, my discipline, to develop a team, a squad, and a pipeline of players who know how to use their skills and knowledge to the maximum, bringing pride to themselves and the club.

6. And how will you deal with setbacks?
Correct answer: Throw my toys out of the pram and looks for another job (oops! Wrong answer, Gussie) - I mean, Get Back In The Ring, learn from my mistakes and the mistakes of others and work with the chairman and CEO to make sure that next time its different.

Whoever answers those questions correctly, and with credibility (I know the answers but I could never deliver) gets the job.

 

[Se20]

Mate you state the bleedin obvious and miss the bleedin obvious. The bleedin obvious is that you win nothing if the team is "not up to it". The bleedin obvious you miss is that Hartlepool dont expect a team better than Notts County, who dont expect a better team than Leicester who dont expect a better team than Spurs who dont expect a better team than Man U. Brighton have always (even when at Withdean) had the largest gates in the division, and this year again topped the league support wise. Again, as through our history, our players let us down and a smaller club who struggled to find 14000 paying punters for many games won promotion. I and many many Brighton fans are calling this a watershed. We now will be telling managers that we expect the success that our crowds deserve and that has to be a good thing. As for your lot, with no debt after your insolvency and the mega bucks heading your way, you are in a very good position.

Would you class Cardiff and Hull as small clubs ?