[Football] No complaints

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Going into the tournament most people were, I think, aware that we're not the world's greatest team. Rather there were lots of comments along the lines of 'whatever stage we get knocked out, I hope we do it having played some decent, positive football.' That's what we did this morning/last night.

As a major positive Uruguay lost to Costa Rica and did so looking uninspired and unimpressive. If we can maintain our attacking play and improve in other areas(defending, obviously, and set plays)and Uruguay don't dramatically improve then we still have a fair chance of progressing to the knock out stages.

There's real hope that we have a decent looking team(rather than collection of individuals) forming. One that can get better over the coming few years. I don't think I've ever been this upbeat after an England defeat.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Really? They had one headed off the line, one off the post and one off the crossbar. I'd say they deserved to win, and thus us to lose.

That said, I thought we played pretty well overall...

I think it depends on what you see as deserving...number/quality of chances created versus quality of the finishing. The shot that hit the post was from a similar position to the chance that Rooney had in the second half. Rooney missed the target while the Italian hit the post. The one of the line was, IMO, because Hart just stood in no mans land like a dummy rather than getting back in goal. The crossbar was from a well taken free kick. We had a number of free kicks in similar positions but wasted them all.

So it can be argued that we were a little unlucky to lose as we created the same, if not more, chances that the Italians. Ultimately though, as Brighton experienced last season, it's the taking of the chances that is the most important. So, in that sense, you're right, we didn't deserve to win because we didn't capitalise on our chances like Italy did.

Edit: Just read that back and realised it's quite a long winded way of sitting on the fence and saying you're both right. So, a bit pointless, really. Sorry!

 

[Pavilionaire]

I really don't get this argument that we have the makings of a great side in 2-4 years time.

From what I've seen of Luke Shaw then Ashley Cole was a better players at the same age. Who are these young central defenders who can emulate Rio, Campbell and Terry? Wilshere is injury prone and lightweight, we lack a centre forward who will get on the ends of these crosses in the 6 yard box, the skilful players that we have lack consistency.

Alll in all, a nothing special generation, no different to where we've been before.

At the end of the day we're nothing special. I see that's 9 World Cup matches without a goal for Rooney too.

For us to progress Hodgson will have to work hard with this squad.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Alll in all, a nothing special generation, no different to where we've been before.

For us to progress Hodgson will have to work hard with this squad.

Agree with some of the above, but i think Hodgson is working very hard and doing well.

It's nice to see us get close to one another and play simple short and quick football after years of watching us give it to the undoubtedly talented Beckham/Lampard/Gerrard/Rooney/Scholes etc, sit back and wait for them to 'do something special'

 

[Goldstone1976]

I think it depends on what you see as deserving...number/quality of chances created versus quality of the finishing. The shot that hit the post was from a similar position to the chance that Rooney had in the second half. Rooney missed the target while the Italian hit the post. The one of the line was, IMO, because Hart just stood in no mans land like a dummy rather than getting back in goal. The crossbar was from a well taken free kick. We had a number of free kicks in similar positions but wasted them all.

So it can be argued that we were a little unlucky to lose as we created the same, if not more, chances that the Italians. Ultimately though, as Brighton experienced last season, it's the taking of the chances that is the most important. So, in that sense, you're right, we didn't deserve to win because we didn't capitalise on our chances like Italy did.

I guess I was meaning that Italy weren't lucky to win; they simply played a bit better than we did, particularly, as you say, in taking their chances. I would agree with your analysis completely with the exception of the phrase "...it can be argued that we were a little unlucky to lose...". Given you analysed why we scored fewer goals than they did in a sensible and, imo, correct way, I think that if the conclusion is that they won because they took their chances and we didn't, luck doesn't come into it in any way.

 

[fratsomrover]

In my eyes it was promising. We didn't do enough to win but possibly did not deserve to lose either.
I'm happy with Hodgson's approach and welcome the inclusion of Sterling, Sturridge, Barkley etc.
It would have been nice to see Lallana get more time and possibly see Lambert up alongside Sturridge for the last 10-12 mins.
I couldn't see what Wilshere was introduced to provide. He is the least talented of our midfielders.
Shrek was disappointing and should have been subbed. He abandoned Baines last night and didn't help him one bit.
He's nowhere near world class and it showed last night.
We are maybe a team for the future with the youngsters coming through.
If you add Oxlade Chamberlain to the squad for the next match we'll have more attacking options, so I'm not too downhearted

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

I guess I was meaning that Italy weren't lucky to win; they simply played a bit better than we did, particularly, as you say, in taking their chances. I would agree with your analysis completely with the exception of the phrase "...it can be argued that we were a little unlucky to lose...". Given you analysed why we scored fewer goals than they did in a sensible and, imo, correct way, I think that if the conclusion is that they won because they took their chances and we didn't, luck doesn't come into it in any way.

Yeah, maybe unlucky is the wrong word to use. I can't think of another way of saying it though. Perhaps its the difference in meaning (in my mind at least!) between deserving to win and deserving to lose. Is it possible to say that Italy deserved to win for being more clinical while England didn't necessarily deserve to lose?

Regardless, there's still plenty to be positive about.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Yeah, maybe unlucky is the wrong word to use. I can't think of another way of saying it though. Perhaps its the difference in meaning (in my mind at least!) between deserving to win and deserving to lose. Is it possible to say that Italy deserved to win for being more clinical while England didn't necessarily deserve to lose? Yes,I guess it is possible to say that!

Regardless, there's still plenty to be positive about.

Yes, we can certainly be positive. However, as I said in a post in another thread, in the last 3 WC finals 46 teams lost their first game and only 4 of them made it out of their group. One of them was, ofc, Spain in 2010...

 

[Skaville]

Yes, we can certainly be positive. However, as I said in a post in another thread, in the last 3 WC finals 46 teams lost their first game and only 4 of them made it out of their group. One of them was, ofc, Spain in 2010...

As soon as I saw the draw my initial thought was that it would be very tough and I would be happy if we didn't qualify but played well. I'm bored of seeing the type of performances we gave on South Africa. That was a wonderful game of football last night.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Yes, we can certainly be positive. However, as I said in a post in another thread, in the last 3 WC finals 46 teams lost their first game and only 4 of them made it out of their group. One of them was, ofc, Spain in 2010...

Well, that's a bit of a downer.

 

[nwgull]

Yes, we can certainly be positive. However, as I said in a post in another thread, in the last 3 WC finals 46 teams lost their first game and only 4 of them made it out of their group. One of them was, ofc, Spain in 2010...

It's not that uncommon though, and it just so happens that our first game was against the best team in this group and deserved top seeds. I'd rather have lost narrowly to them than be in Uruguay's position of having lost 3-1 to the supposed weakest team.

We don't have anything to fear from Uruguay or Cost Rica if we attack as well as we did last night; their defences are nowhere near as strong as Italy's.

 

[origigull]

In my eyes it was promising. We didn't do enough to win but possibly did not deserve to lose either.
I'm happy with Hodgson's approach and welcome the inclusion of Sterling, Sturridge, Barkley etc.
It would have been nice to see Lallana get more time and possibly see Lambert up alongside Sturridge for the last 10-12 mins.
I couldn't see what Wilshere was introduced to provide. He is the least talented of our midfielders.
Shrek was disappointing and should have been subbed. He abandoned Baines last night and didn't help him one bit.
He's nowhere near world class and it showed last night.
We are maybe a team for the future with the youngsters coming through.
If you add Oxlade Chamberlain to the squad for the next match we'll have more attacking options, so I'm not too downhearted

This. We had some really good chances to score some more goals but just not clinical enough in front of goal. On another night it could have been. There were some big gaps down the left hand side which needs plugging, if that means dropping Rooney or putting him in his preferred position only Hodgson knows. England were unlucky with the penalty shout with Gerrard, some refs would have given that. I take the positives from the game and we should (if we play similar) beat the other teams in the group.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Basically Woy should have taken better defenders - we have a great fast attack but are easily undone in defence. It might be better if they got some assistance from Captain Marvel and his apprentice who was nowhere to be seen for for most of the game.


Big mistake not taking Cole and Woys preference for attacking defenders could be costly.

Uruguay is massive for us now - with a fit /unfit Suarez the key and if Costa Rica are as good against Italy as they were up front against Uruguay we will be out because if we can beat Uruguay then Italy will.

 

[nwgull]

Basically Woy should have taken better defenders - we have a great fast attack but are easily undone in defence. It might be better if they got some assistance from Captain Marvel and his apprentice who was nowhere to be seen for for most of the game.


Big mistake not taking Cole and Woys preference for attacking defenders could be costly.

Uruguay is massive for us now - with a fit /unfit Suarez the key and if Costa Rica are as good against Italy as they were up front against Uruguay we will be out because if we can beat Uruguay then Italy will.

Costa Rica looked decent, but against a poor team; Uruguay are nowhere near as good as Italy, particularly in defence.

 

[Goldstone1976]

It's not that uncommon though, and it just so happens that our first game was against the best team in this group and deserved top seeds. I'd rather have lost narrowly to them than be in Uruguay's position of having lost 3-1 to the supposed weakest team.

We don't have anything to fear from Uruguay or Cost Rica if we attack as well as we did last night; their defences are nowhere near as strong as Italy's.

It's 8.69% likely, given the last three WC finals, which I would describe as pretty uncommon. That said, I do still have hope that we will get out of the group.

 

[Kevlar]

yet another great game
the only game with less than 3 goals
was the Mexican game and they had 2 good ones disallowed!
difficult to find fault with the team
think we got a little outnumbered in the middle
pirlo dictated more than gerrard
if we get out of a tough group
may have to be a little more pragmatic when facing teams
as good as Italy
maybe 4 3 1 2
with sterling in the hole behind sturridge and Rooney
with an extra midfielder giving the full backs cover
then they can overlap when we attack
both our full backs are better going forward than defending
but our central defenders were great
do not think terry would have reached that chip
Prilos free kick was something else from a stride "run" up

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Do you really think Hodgeson will be manager after this World Cup?

If we won it maybe but I can't see him being there for the Euros I thought he was a stop gap for this World Cup.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Do you really think Hodgeson will be manager after this World Cup?

If we won it maybe but I can't see him being there for the Euros I thought he was a stop gap for this World Cup.

I think he has done an absolutely superb job bringing through the youngsters whilst phasing out the old guard. He's got us playing the best football for years, the difference between yesterday and 2 years ago was remarkable.

He's obviously not long term and won't be manager at the next world cup but he deserves to continue working with these players until the euros even if we do get knocked out at the group stage. Hodgson seems to have brought this group close together and the players look like a real team, IMO he's the best man to continue that progress. It's no shame getting knocked out of a group with Italy and Uruguay.

 

[Napper]

We did alright and didn't embarrass ourselves at all . Probably just about deserved a point .


I do think that we were playing above ourselves though and Italy are not a good side .


We are what we are . Happy if we see same passion and compete again.


Let's face it . If we get out this group we have done well .



2 wins needed IMO