Nigel Farage MEP v Russell Brand - Question Time BBC1 22:35 *** Official Match Thread ***

[Westdene Seagull]

Not that hard to define really;

"The working class is the class of people employed for wages, especially in manual or industrial work. Working-class jobs include blue-collar jobs, but also include large amounts of white-collar and service work."

So basically anyone that is employed ? That covers around 90% of the workers in this country !

Just out of interest how many of these professions would you class as working class :

Bank Manager
IT Consultant
Deputy Head in a School
Vet
Army Officer
Farmer

 

[Dub-67]

So front pages of tat papers - and in 2011 and 2013 - are evidence now are they ? Couldn't spot the date on the last link as Dani distracted me

Er yes.

Of Course.

They are evidence of the campaign in the media to demonise immigrants.

 

[Dub-67]

So basically anyone that is employed ? That covers around 90% of the workers in this country !

"manual or industrial work."

You think 90% of the workers in this country are employed in manual and industrial work??
You arent really making sense.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

"The working class is the class of people employed for wages, "

"manual or industrial work."

You think 90% of the workers in this country are employed in manual and industrial work??
You arent really making sense.

Oh, I've worked in the manual sector, the industrial sector and professional / commercial sector in my work - what does that make me ?

 

[JCL666]

I am sure that they stand up to criticism and as far as EU immigrants are concerned, then they are presumably right. However, this report, as you may know, has been roundly criticised, as it takes no account of the stresses on the infrastructure. Whilst immigrants working will undoubtedly have a positive effect, it does not state the consequences of them not working! Also, it does not mention non EU immigrants at all, which I think probably worries folk more, due to its implications for social cohesion. Also, it has since emerged that the chap was the same one who told us that 13,000 Poles would come here . . In the event 700,000 arrived! Don't be so believing of "studies".

Wrong on so many levels.

It has not been "roundly criticised". There have been some critics, obviously there will be. That's what happens when papers get published.

It did consider them not working as it is about the NET effect.

It's focus is on EU migrants, but it does mention non EU migrants.

As for 13000 vs 700000. The net migration to this country has been specified in a number of sources including the ONS.


The bit in bold, a nonsensical thing to say.

 

[Dub-67]

Oh, I've worked in the manual sector, the industrial sector and professional / commercial sector in my work - what does that make me ?

a ****?

 

[sahel]

Originally Posted by sahel View Post



I thought the best points made last night were

1. Why do we go on and on about immigration. Why weren't we discussing tax evasion by individuals and companies which is much more important and salient

2. It is not immigrants that cause stresses and strains in housing education etc. It is lack of investment which is why point 1 was so relevant.

We are a low tax country and even then that tax is massively evaded. That is why we have poor public services and inadequate housing - it is not immigration - that is just an excuse and an easy target for populists like Farage

I know from previous posts that you have an obsession about taxes, and how people are dodging them. In this respect, you are quite right, but it is possible to be worried about this and immigration, you know. It is annoying that big corporations are seemingly getting away with it, though I doubt that this would be more of an issue for many folk than worries over what is widely perceived to be uncontrolled immigration, hence why this debate seems to take centre stage, even if you don't like it.
Your second point is way too simplistic -it might be a combination of the two, of course, but to say that immigration has had no effect on education/housing etc (note you didn't mention the NHS!) is a sweeping statement designed to lend a bit of credence to what you say. How can you possibly be in a position to make such a generalised comment?
As an aside, I would also think that whatever the government spends, most activists would say the service is under-funded.

This country obsesses about immigration. We never as a society debate the level of tax we should pay. We are much lower taxed than successful european countries like Germany and Sweden. In fact we are lower taxed than just about any other developed country except the US and Australia. Why is this never discussed? Do people understand this is the case? The current Tory plans would have public expenditure down to 35% of GDP by 2020 the lowest since the 30s and some 5 or so percent lower than other European countries. 5% of our GDP accounts for about 80 or 90 billion a year. And yet we say we cannot afford to put more money into the NHS. Why is this not discussed? It is a major change in society and we are becoming a low taxed low public expenditure society. This is much more important than immigration yet gets precious little coverage. Why not?

 

[5mins-from-amex]

[QUOTE=Dub

So the daily hatchet jobs on the BBC about ukip are ok then? the Panorama that they did on Farage was the most biased piece of propaganda that I have ever seen, but because the BBC is seen as the great bastion that it is people believe all the slurs that they report.

 

[Dub-67]

Oh, I've worked in the manual sector, the industrial sector and professional / commercial sector in my work - what does that make me ?

a dickhead?

 

[Dub-67]

BBC isnt owned by Murdoch or big corporations though is it?

 

[Dub-67]

So the daily hatchet jobs on the BBC about ukip are ok then? the Panorama that they did on Farage was the most biased piece of propaganda that I have ever seen, but because the BBC is seen as the great bastion that it is people believe all the slurs that they report.

BBC isnt owned by Murdoch or big corporations though is it?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

a ****?

a dickhead?

Ahhhh .... the answer of the brainless then You carry on having that 'working class' chip on your shoulder - I'm sure it will serve you well in life.

 

[spring hall convert]

This country obsesses about immigration. We never as a society debate the level of tax we should pay. We are much lower taxed than successful european countries like Germany and Sweden. In fact we are lower taxed than just about any other developed country except the US and Australia. Why is this never discussed? Do people understand this is the case? The current Tory plans would have public expenditure down to 35% of GDP by 2020 the lowest since the 30s and some 5 or so percent lower than other European countries. 5% of our GDP accounts for about 80 or 90 billion a year. And yet we say we cannot afford to put more money into the NHS. Why is this not discussed? It is a major change in society and we are becoming a low taxed low public expenditure society. This is much more important than immigration yet gets precious little coverage. Why not?

For one simple reason. Since Thatcher, including the "Labour" government, like America, we've become slaves to Milton Friedman. It's not even questioned here now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Friedman

A credible left wing alternative in this country would be a help. That might be The Greens in time - it's definately never going to be Labour again.

 

[spring hall convert]

Ahhhh .... the answer of the brainless then You carry on having that 'working class' chip on your shoulder - I'm sure it will serve you well in life.

As juvenile as it was, you did tee it up!

 

[5mins-from-amex]

BBC isnt owned by Murdoch or big corporations though is it?

No, but its funded by the public ( and receives funds from the EU ) and is suppose to remain impartial, do you see the BBC as neutral in its political bias? Because I don't.

 

[goldstone]

Farage just wants to stop immigration because he doesn't like anymore foreigners coming in as it's 'crowded' and a burden on services. He really didn't expand any further than that soundbite. He was left stumped by the point that many of those services are backed and delivered by the exceptional skill sets of many immigrants contributing to the economy, society and their communities.

These "services" you speak of functioned perfectly well (or at least as well as or better than they do now) before we opened the doors to mass immigration. The need for immigrant labour in these jobs is fuelled by the number of immigrants allowed into the country. There are plenty of British people who could be trained to do the jobs that immigrants are doing now. Do you believe that immigrants possess "exceptional skill sets" that are beyond what we could find on this island?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

As juvenile as it was, you did tee it up!

Indeed I did but he's still failed to answer the questions at hand.

 

[spring hall convert]

do you see the BBC as neutral in its political bias? Because I don't.

Nor do I http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...ays-bbc-leftwing-bias-bollocks_n_5458619.html

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

These "services" you speak of functioned perfectly well (or at least as well as or better than they do now) before we opened the doors to mass immigration. The need for immigrant labour in these jobs is fuelled by the number of immigrants allowed into the country. There are plenty of British people who could be trained to do the jobs that immigrants are doing now. Do you believe that immigrants possess "exceptional skill sets" that are beyond what we could find on this island?

Certainly there tends to be a much higher level of service in bars and restaurants where non-Brits are doing the serving. The Amex being an obvious exception.

 

[fat old seagull]

Ahhhh .... the answer of the brainless then You carry on having that 'working class' chip on your shoulder - I'm sure it will serve you well in life.

I'm not sure the 'expected' answers were as bad as I'd feared, when I saw you'd asked NCR's " what does that make me" ?
A bit like giving someone a set of darts in a pub, they're going to be thrown.