Nigel Farage MEP v Russell Brand - Question Time BBC1 22:35 *** Official Match Thread ***

[Bold Seagull]

[/U][/U]

No he don't, how many times has it got to be explained to dullards like you that he wants CONTROLLED IMMIGRATION.

Okay, if I'm a dullard, please expand on what Farage means by this phrase. What is going to be his criteria for the controls; numbers / skills / economic need ? How is he going to determine those numbers and what constitutes crowded? Is he going to have a fixed annual cap on immigration regardless of economic skill needs, or is his policy one of proportional controls of some kind?

You're obviously satisfied with the word 'controlled'. I just need to know a little more about what that means thanks. If that makes me a dullard I'll take it as a compliment.

 

[daveinprague]

It was a bit of a letdown as a spectacle. Thought everybody did their best not to be to outrageous.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I also didn't understand the woman's comment that men talk over women on these shows and they don't get heard, making out it's a sort of sexist thing. Everyone talks over everyone else on that show, and others of this nature. It's got nothing to do with her being a woman and indeed, the labour woman later was shouting over the tory woman and wasn't pulled up for it?

I have to admit that somewhat annoyed me. Why bring gender into it unless of course you have a massive chip on your shoulder.

 

[daveinprague]

Come on , let's get off mums.................someone's probably just got off of yours

Shes 92. She did mention she had just had a halfwit humping her leg as his plumper wasnt interested.

 

[jimbob5]

It seemed to be doing what it said on the tin before I fell asleep after 20 minutes and woke up after it finished.

 

[daveinprague]

I struggled to keep my eyes open as it started at 11:35 here and I was knackered to start with.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Against all better judgment did watch most of it in the end, because it was clearly going to be setting the agenda today in however pitiful a way.

I'd agree with whoever scored it earlier Brand 5 Farage 5, I'd probably score the programme a couple of points higher, maybe 4. The Labour and Conservative representatives either didn't have anything to say at all, or did but couldn't get going.

Brand didn't have a good night. His self-portrayal as man of the people is always shaky, and it ran into big problems. Two members of the audience put him right on the spot; the bloke who called him out to stand up as a candidate, and the other one who pointed out that he was less likely to feel the pressures on education/health etc caused by immigration on working class people in particular areas from the comfort of his own pad in Hampstead or wherever. That isn't the front line that Farage is exploiting. Penny Mordaunt's point that Brand should do more with his 9 million Twitter followers than tell them not to vote was also fair.

I don't like Farage, and want to see him marginalised as soon as possible. But his biggest critics on the left do not understand the issues and pressures that immigration can put on resources in particular areas - because they live in different, nice middle-class places. So all they can do is basically abuse him, and as arguments go that is weak. If anything it is playing into his hands. Labour themselves admit that their open-door policy was a huge mistake, and it is not racist to want a sensible, controlled policy in place as suggested by the Sunday Times journalist, so you can plan and allocate resources properly.

Apart from a few Enoch Powell types I don't think anyone wants to stop immigration, it is part of this country's tradition to welcome people, give them a chance and it also helps the economy in many ways. But those slagging off Farage would be better trying to reassure voters in certain affected areas that they will increase resources to alleviate any problems, rather than simply personal abuse of Farage.

 

[The Spanish]

You couldn't make it up could you, typical of the stuff he says and then has to retract the day after. Was really surprised there was no breast feeding questions on breast feeding or making hand guns legal, he loves these topics !!!
The strange thing is you only have to look at the comments on these boards to realise he has stirred the 'socially acceptable side' of the far right and also getting traditionally working class voters to vote for them. UKIP voters are more than twice as likely as the general population to be over 60 (48% as opposed to 28%). As well as being older they probably not especially well off, probably not university educated, slightly more likely than average to be a working-class man, probably owning his home outright and living on a pension and some modest savings. This while a generalisation does go some way to explaining why they feel scared an vunerable especially in areas such as Canterbury where QT was last night.

In other societies unlike ours where youth is championed, and age is seen negatively, the party which secured a larger proportion of the older vote would be considered the more cerebral.

 

[User removed 4]

Shes 92. She did mention she had just had a halfwit humping her leg as his plumper wasnt interested.

92 ?? time the old bird slowed down a bit eh

 

[daveinprague]

92 ?? time the old bird slowed down a bit eh

She is old school. Will out live us both.

 

[User removed 4]

She is old school. Will out live us both.

I was commenting on her slowing down with the blokes , not outliving people.

 

[5mins-from-amex]

Okay, if I'm a dullard, please expand on what Farage means by this phrase. What is going to be his criteria for the controls; numbers / skills / economic need ? How is he going to determine those numbers and what constitutes crowded? Is he going to have a fixed annual cap on immigration regardless of economic skill needs, or is his policy one of proportional controls of some kind?

You're obviously satisfied with the word 'controlled'. I just need to know a little more about what that means thanks. If that makes me a dullard I'll take it as a compliment.

Farage has stated many times that he wants a point based system like Australia, if you want answers to numbers and what would qualify somebody to be granted a Visa then do some research on how I works other country's.
You stated NO immigration which has never been Farages viewpoint.

 

[Gwylan]

The trouble with this word "controlled" is that's it's completely meaningless.

There are two types of immigration. EU and non-EU. The latter is already controlled: all main parties agree on that and there's no debate there.

EU immigration is obviously more problematic. Cameron has said he wants restrictions in place, but that has been slapped down by the EU, so that's not going to happen. Labour and Lib Dems are happy with the Status Quo and UKIP wants withdrawal from the EU so it can "control" immigration to share out resources better.

There are no problems with this: one is that it's not clear what this means - and Farage is not forthcoming on this point. The second is more worrying. We have almost as many British people living within the EU as there are EU migrants in the UK. Many of those expatriates are pensioners living in Spain, Portugal, Cyprus etc. If they have to return to the UK (as they will have no longer have rights of residence in their countries), we're doing nothing to relieve pressure on the health service, we're adding to it (although I grant you that it will relieve pressure on schools) and do nothing to relieve pressure on the health service. Farage continually evades this issue but it's one he's going to have to deal with sooner or later

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

I don't like Farage, and want to see him marginalised as soon as possible. But his biggest critics on the left do not understand the issues and pressures that immigration can put on resources in particular areas - because they live in different, nice middle-class places. So all they can do is basically abuse him, and as arguments go that is weak. If anything it is playing into hands.

The thing is so does Farage (live in nice middle class area) yet people still lap up everything he says. It stems from a base of ignorance though. Times aren't tough because of immigration, people not being able to find work isn't a result of immigration. There are actually more jobs than there are people in this country but the people are either unskilled or lack experience. You fight the anti-immigration, "I want my country back" brigade with facts about immigration and the benefits it does to the economy etc and how isn't a big drain on resources as they perceive it to be and they don't want to know. And THAT is when the word "racist" starts flying around. When people are so entrenched in this view that foreign = bad and refuse to see it from any other point of view.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Farage has stated many times that he wants a point based system like Australia, if you want answers to numbers and what would qualify somebody to be granted a Visa then do some research on how I works other country's.
You stated NO immigration which has never been Farages viewpoint.

We're discussing last nights show - why doesn't he expand these ideas from 'points system like Australia' to the actual point system he'd introduce and state what this is so I don't have to do the research? It sounds like you'd have done a better job than him on the show, you've already given more detail that he did.

I said 'stop' immigration if you want to be really pedantic, and that meant stop immigration as it currently stands as well you would have known but decided to pick apart on a bit of semantics.

 

[5mins-from-amex]

We're discussing last nights show - why doesn't he expand these ideas from 'points system like Australia' to the actual point system he'd introduce and state what this is so I don't have to do the research? It sounds like you'd have done a better job than him on the show, you've already given more detail that he did.

I said 'stop' immigration if you want to be really pedantic, and that meant stop immigration as it currently stands as well you would have known but decided to pick apart on a bit of semantics.

But its not pedantic to pick up on you're choice of word though is it, because people will see the word NO, hear the word NO, and then believe that is what UKIP stand for and its wrong.

 

[spring hall convert]

Apart from a few Enoch Powell types I don't think anyone wants to stop immigration, it is part of this country's tradition to welcome people, give them a chance and it also helps the economy in many ways. But those slagging off Farage would be better trying to reassure voters in certain affected areas that they will increase resources to alleviate any problems, rather than simply personal abuse of Farage.

Cameron's "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists" line set the agenda and played totally into Farage's hands. Conceited, lazy, politcs that showed awful judgement. It's biting him in the arse now.

Politics in general is to blame for the popularity of UKIP currently. Both Milliband and Cameron are scared of the debate with him and I'm really not sure why, it's not like Farage is coming up with anything new.

The rise of an "alternative" like UKIP tellls you all you need to know about the relationship that the established parties have with the electorate.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

It was much as expected really. Brand was a load of hot air with absolutely no solutions to all he moans about, being patronising to women ( pay their pensions then luv ), calling everyone " mate " playing to the crowd and Brand followers most of whom would clap and cheer if he farted in a milk bottle and being an absolute tosspot whilst having no answer to any serious question put to him " like why not stand yourself ? " the nutter in the crowd actually did him a disservice as she associated herself with him which Farage picked up on, Farage said nothing great or terrible either, kept his cool and just laughed off Brand's provocations which was the best reaction, the 2 mp's were inconsequential and the lady journalist made the lot of them look like clowns, lady journalist 9, farage 7, labour mp 5, tory mp 4, brand 1

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The trouble with this word "controlled" is that's it's completely meaningless.

There are two types of immigration. EU and non-EU. The latter is already controlled: all main parties agree on that and there's no debate there.

EU immigration is obviously more problematic. Cameron has said he wants restrictions in place, but that has been slapped down by the EU, so that's not going to happen. Labour and Lib Dems are happy with the Status Quo and UKIP wants withdrawal from the EU so it can "control" immigration to share out resources better.

There are no problems with this: one is that it's not clear what this means - and Farage is not forthcoming on this point. The second is more worrying. We have almost as many British people living within the EU as there are EU migrants in the UK. Many of those expatriates are pensioners living in Spain, Portugal, Cyprus etc. If they have to return to the UK (as they will have no longer have rights of residence in their countries), we're doing nothing to relieve pressure on the health service, we're adding to it (although I grant you that it will relieve pressure on schools) and do nothing to relieve pressure on the health service. Farage continually evades this issue but it's one he's going to have to deal with sooner or later

But your assuming something will happen when it probably won't. I know it will come as a shock but Brits live in almost every country on the face of the planet. Some require visas, some don't. EU countries aren't going to suddenly kick out Brits living there and paying taxes just because we leave the EU.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

This is one of the most sensible political discussion threads I've ever read on NSC. Very informative. Bravo!