Nigel Farage MEP v Russell Brand - Question Time BBC1 22:35 *** Official Match Thread ***

[Felpham Seagull]

Guys! Guys! Look at us! Squabbling! Bickering, like children. What's happened to us? We never used to be like this!

Sorry couldn't resist.

yes we did

 

[Seagull on the wing]

And this is why I shall be voting for UKIP
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30456785

And related to that
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...eetheart-tax-deals-sullied-reputation-eu-head

Sooner people wake up to the EU the better. Stop telling people what to do.

Couldn't have put that better...100% agree.

 

[Bold Seagull]

you get wronguns in every political party and UKIP are no exception... scrutinised in practically everything they do, rightly so and I hope the ex tory c*nt gets his comeuppance.
UKIP have pledged to stamp out this kind of nonsense, each elected mp has a responsibility to serve and answer to the public from his or her own represented constituency (not his or her own whip)...the people are the governor's not the politician's themselves, if anyone is known or seen to be corrupt he or she will be ousted straight away and replaced by someone of public choice without having to wait for the nearest election to crop up. regular referendums will take place on certain important issues... I could go on.
overall the average person benefits from UKIP'S fairer policy system where common sense is applied foremost... something you lot on the left fail to grasp.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...om-Ukip-selection-as-expenses-questioned.html

Par the course Dave...show me one political party that has not been involved in a scandal of rent boys,affairs,dodgy expense claims,corruption...all parties do it, so to marginalise one is for a scandal is being rather selective to suit your political views.

 

[aolstudios]

Par the course Dave...show me one political party that has not been involved in a scandal of rent boys,affairs,dodgy expense claims,corruption...all parties do it, so to marginalise one is for a scandal is being rather selective to suit your political views.

But he'd already exposed more than once for being a complete corrupt wrong'un. Yet the kippers welcomed him with open arms (due to his reality tv profile). Really couldn't've been a surprise

 

[Buzzer]

Predictable.

The Left "Communism has never worked, because it has never been accomplished"

To which the right says "How about East Germany, Soviet Union, Maoist China and so on"

To which the left says "That wasn't communism, that was despot dictators exploiting communist ideologies for personal gain"

... I could go on for pages... this discussion has occurred so many times, I know exactly how it goes. I don't personally support communism, but it is ignorant to dismiss it completely as a concept.

If you're going to play that game then let's compare like with like. If you're going to rail against capitalism and laissez-faire economics in action in the real world (as you have done repeatedly in the past) then I think it's fair to compare that against socialism in its many guises that has been tried and failed many times in many countries. If you're going to claim that communism hasn't had a proper chance then I could counter that neither has the pure libertarian model. It's hypocritical for socialists to moan about capitalism practised in social democracies unless they acknowledge that socialism has a tendency towards totalitarianism.

My own view is that right-wing concepts such as individualism and personal freedom (those innate human qualities that socialism doesn't like very much) are the very things that act as a check on the unbridled socialism that then leads to all these terror states. In other words communism has never and will never work because it goes against human nature. The same human nature that makes someone like Russell Brand, who moans about inequality of wealth and how selfish big corporations are, surround himself with nice shiny things rather than figure out what he really needs and give the rest to the needy.

 

[daveinprague]

Par the course Dave...show me one political party that has not been involved in a scandal of rent boys,affairs,dodgy expense claims,corruption...all parties do it, so to marginalise one is for a scandal is being rather selective to suit your political views.

Of course, I dont disagree, I just posted that link in ref to what Brightonfella was saying.

' lets face it anything has got to be better than the current pile of crap we are faced with, who instead of serving us (the people) are serving their own pockets instead and have been doing so since the creation of parliament itself'

Everybody knows it goes on, I doubt if there are many walks of life where it doesnt, but UKIP being different in this respect? I dont believe so.

 

[Buzzer]

But he'd already exposed more than once for being a complete corrupt wrong'un. Yet the kippers welcomed him with open arms (due to his reality tv profile). Really couldn't've been a surprise

I'd agree and add that Russell Brand is equally a wrong 'un. He's clearly a narcissist with dubious moral values (especially when it comes to women) and as Bry Nylon said, he's incredibly shallow substituting verbosity for substance. Look at the people he surrounds himself with: Mo Ansar for instance. Seriously...just google "Mo Ansar liar" and see what comes up...time and time again, he's been exposed and still this is someone that Brand loves to quote as a serious academic reference. Owen Jones is another.

I'm really not sure if Brand has been seduced by his own hype or if he is playing a game but anyone who backs Russell Brand just because he's seen to be anti-disestablishment is making as big a mistake as someone voting UKIP for the same reasons.

 

[beorhthelm]

... What we currently have is socialism for the rich, capitalism for everyone else - it needs to be the other way around.

how is it possible to seem to understand the socialism/capitialism symbiosis (capitialism pays for socialism, which guides capitialism), then abruptly turn about to such a ridiculous conclusion. as if you cant bring yourself to acknowledge the reality. its patently absurd to say we have "socialism for the rich" when the rich dont need welfare, privately educate and use private healthcare.

 

[beorhthelm]

...one recent example of this is the bailing out of the banks, which taxpayers had to pay for.

which is a nonsence example as this was done to shore up the economy and protect everyone from Mrs Brown the pensioner to Mr Brooks the company director. social support isnt being taken away from regular people, who are those in regular full time work and not in receipt of social support.

 

[brighton fella]

Of course, I dont disagree, I just posted that link in ref to what Brightonfella was saying.

' lets face it anything has got to be better than the current pile of crap we are faced with, who instead of serving us (the people) are serving their own pockets instead and have been doing so since the creation of parliament itself'

Everybody knows it goes on, I doubt if there are many walks of life where it doesnt, but UKIP being different in this respect? I dont believe so.

im not saying they are any different at all.. all I am saying is they are streets ahead of the current pile of crap.

oh & for such a feared and dangerous party as some of you lefties would suggest UKIP are "even comparing UKIP to a Nazi party ffs" you tell me whereabouts UKIP stood in the Iraq war.. afghan war.. Syrian intervention.. Libyan intervention.. Ukraine crisis and so on and so on. ? what is their stance regards all of these pointless missions ? come back and tell me that they are still dangerous when you've looked it all up.

 

[Soulman]

im not saying they are any different at all.. all I am saying is they are streets ahead of the current pile of crap.

oh & for such a feared and dangerous party as some of you lefties would suggest UKIP are "even comparing UKIP to a Nazi party ffs" you tell me whereabouts UKIP stood in the Iraq war.. afghan war.. Syrian intervention.. Libyan intervention.. Ukraine crisis and so on and so on. ? what is their stance regards all of these pointless missions ? come back and tell me that they are still dangerous when you've looked it all up.

Unfortunately it is a case of close eyes, stick fingers in ears and sing loudly La La La. These stances do not make good print in the tabloids.

 

[Hastings gull]

This is a mixture of misinterpreting what I say and downright making it up.

I don't like having to defend myself on an internet forum, but this is clear defamation, so I'll reiterate my views for clarification.

- I think American people are fantastic, it is their government that is one of the great evils in the world. They are imperialist warmongers, they have formed a militarised police state full of brutality and intemperate incarceration rates, they are sustaining a nation of great inequality which is shocking considering the wealth at their disposal. I could go on - these are objective truths about the US government, the American people deserve better.

- I have never once said all UKIP voters are far-right, I have described the parties ideology as far right and I base this view on analysis of their roots and policies. I believe UKIP voters are largely regular people who just want drastic political change, like most of us do. Mostly they have identified the EU or immigration as serious problems which the main parties don't address - and they believe that UKIP can make a difference in that respect. I absolutely disagree that most UKIP voters are racist or even xenophobic, although I would imagine they have attracted some people who are, such as former BNP voters.

- I have never once said CEO's do very little, I have absolutely no idea where that came from. I perhaps may have criticised the CEO's of conglomerates and corporations, who will pay themselves millions for doing very little while their employees at the other end don't get living wage... and Paul Barber.

You may not like this, but OH yes you did! The contradiction in your last para would seem to be further evidence! You said that America is a despicable country - only now are you attempting to draw a distinction between the people and the government, as if somehow they are separate entities. Plus, of course, the usual arrogance -the American government is one of the evils of the world, you say, which you describe as an objective truth. Objective ? -that is your highly debatable opinion, my friend, and is no way objective!
I do fully agree with your middle para about UKIP, by the way, and in fact have agreed with what you have written of late describing UKIP, but I am referring to your description some time before of their supporters being far right.
By the way, why don't you like having to defend yourself? You are asked to defend your views, which is what a forum is all about. Would I be right in saying that you just don't like being questioned and disagreed with?

 

[Hastings gull]

Hello Mustafa,

Just looked again -you are right in that you did not describe the supporters of UKIp as far right -someone else did, so apologies on that score -only! You did, however, write:
The USA in general is just a horrible nation.

 

[brighton fella]

Hello Mustafa,

Just looked again -you are right in that you did not describe the supporters of UKIp as far right -someone else did, so apologies on that score -only! You did, however, write:
The USA in general is just a horrible nation.

there isn't a nation in the world that is horrible..it's the b*stards who control em who are

 

[Soulman]

Hello Mustafa,

Just looked again -you are right in that you did not describe the supporters of UKIp as far right -someone else did, so apologies on that score -only! You did, however, write:
The USA in general is just a horrible nation.

Strange thing is that many slate the USA, and some have used quite nasty terms. Not a great fan of the American way myself, but i do wonder what the posters would be called if the same was stated about countries in the Middle East or Asia.

 

[pastafarian]

Nice touch getting his mum to heckle from the back, at least we know where he got his early speaking education from.

Disappointingly it wasnt Russell Brands mum

It seems she is Bunny La Roche
Bit of a rent a mob activist with links to various socialist activist groups.And by all accounts has form for being a plank.

http://nopenothope.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/laroche-supported-race-play-sex-leader.html

http://socialistunity.com/swp-demand-stoke-anti-fascists-pay-1800/

the first article makes for quite bizarre reading,i never knew these groups like UAF,SWP and ISN were so deeply divided

 

[Soulman]

Disappointingly it wasnt Russell Brands mum

It seems she is Bunny La Roche
Bit of a rent a mob activist with links to various socialist activist groups.And by all accounts has form for being a plank.

http://nopenothope.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/laroche-supported-race-play-sex-leader.html

http://socialistunity.com/swp-demand-stoke-anti-fascists-pay-1800/

the first article makes for quite bizarre reading,i never knew these groups like UAF,SWP and ISN were so deeply divided

That first article is a real eye opener. With her blue hair and known past she was obviously known when the audience was vetted. Seems to me that her being a known UKIP hater she was brought in to cause damage, which begs to differ that the audience is balanced.
If she is like many of the left/swp/uaf etc, at demos, and sadly she is fairly typical, then we can see where a lot of trouble starts.

 

[Ditch]

Er...Russell Brand is teetotal. .

 

[pastafarian]

That first article is a real eye opener. With her blue hair and known past she was obviously known when the audience was vetted. Seems to me that her being a known UKIP hater she was brought in to cause damage, which begs to differ that the audience is balanced.
If she is like many of the left/swp/uaf etc, at demos, and sadly she is fairly typical, then we can see where a lot of trouble starts.

perhaps the blue hair was a disguise? (grabbing at straws)......you may well have a point,blows my balanced audience standpoint out of the water........brighton fella is going to have my guts for garters.