[Politics] Next leader of the Labour party

[Dave the OAP]

The Tories are desperate for long-bailey to win.

They see her as a younger version of comrade corbyn who wears a skirt!

 

[Dave the OAP]

I don't think that many were unworkable on their - although nationalising OpenReach may have been a bit of a commitment - but there were so many policies that they couldn't have been paid for in one parliament.

I think their manifesto for the previous election was much better and more manageable, this one looked like they were making stuff up on the hoof.

My mate works for openreach and the general consensus was that only openreach could do it, especially out in the countryside and the cost would be astronomic...even if they decided to nationalise openreach too. It is economically unviable.

 

[beorhthelm]

Boris Johnson says:



The difference is that Johnson has absolutely no plan to get on with this. Just like his outright lie about his 'plan' over social care which he said he had last year.

dont recall any plan from Labour, beyond nationalise telecoms. sadly our politicians are very good at this, promising headline policies without any detail on how they'll actually be delivered.

 

[CHAPPERS]

dont recall any plan from Labour, beyond nationalise telecoms. .

Doesn't mean they didn't have one does it.

https://labour.org.uk/press/british...delivering-free-full-fibre-broadband-for-all/

 

[BLOCK F]

There was a proposal for free university education but there was no plan to write off the debt of graduates.

Free university education is a good idea - Germany has it and they're not doing too badly.

Hmm, not too sure about that across the board.
Just research some of the weird degrees that are on offer at some unis! Why should the taxpayer payfor students to study these?
I reckon too many people are going to uni and will be sorely disappointed with their job prospects when they graduate. Unis don't have to care about 'employability', they get their fees regardless.
The whole system seems a mess to me and before contemplating free uni education for all, I reckon we need to sort out the unis themselves.
Do we really need so many unis offering a myriad of courses, many of which will be of little or no use to the gullible youngsters when they come out and seek employment in the real world? At a guess, I would say no!
What are the views of the academics out there?

 

[beorhthelm]

Doesn't mean they didn't have one does it.

https://labour.org.uk/press/british...delivering-free-full-fibre-broadband-for-all/

that isnt a plan for delivery, its a sales pitch, says why they think we need it and what they think it will benefit. how would they actually deliver full fibre to the premises by 2025? how many additional engineers would be recruited, what legislation would be needed to circumvent leeway issues, road access, what infrastructure upgrades to backbone networks and properties? all they said was we want this and it'll be free.

 

[CHAPPERS]

: all they said was we want this and it'll be free.

No they didn't they said they were going to raise taxes on multinationals to pay for it.

How much detail on delivery do you want? Down to which engineer will connect your house?

 

[BLOCK F]

The Tories are desperate for long-bailey to win.

They see her as a younger version of comrade corbyn who wears a skirt!

Well, this Tory isn't desperate for her to win.
For the sake of decent democracy in this country, I want to see a return to a centre left Labour Party that can provide a competent opposition to the Government and would be an electable party of Government.
It is time for a huge injection of pragmatism and commonsense to be administered to the Labour Party.
Neither the country nor the Labour Party needs anyone like RLB prolonging the failed 'legacy' of Corbyn and the ghoul of Hillingdon, John McDonnell!

 

[Billy the Fish]

Boris Johnson says:



The difference is that Johnson has absolutely no plan to get on with this. Just like his outright lie about his 'plan' over social care which he said he had last year.

Doesn't mean they didn't have one does it.

https://labour.org.uk/press/british...delivering-free-full-fibre-broadband-for-all/

So two identical pie in the sky sales pitches - one of them you instantly disbelieve and the other you're a cheerleader for. I wonder why

I support the red team ra ra ra, you support the blue team booooooooooo

 

[Machiavelli]

Boris Johnson says:



The difference is that Johnson has absolutely no plan to get on with this. Just like his outright lie about his 'plan' over social care which he said he had last year.

The Tories manifesto was (in stark contrast to Labour's) almost entirely empty of content. It was just PR-puff. This does leave somewhat of a 'blank sheet' for Johnson to do things over the next half-decade. My wager is that he'll do as little as possible, but we shall see.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Labour is already showing signs of not learning lessons. How 22 MP's think Emily Thornberry should be leader is totally beyond me and now some very prominent Momentum supporting MP's are backing Richard Burgon for deputy rather than Angela Rayner. WTAF. It has to be Starmer and Rayner. They can begin to unite the party and then try and be relevant to people's lives. Appoint a shadow cabinet which brings back some of the credible, sensible Labour MP's ( Copper, Benn, Reeves etc) and give big jobs to Nandy and Phillips. That would be a start in providing some opposition, rather than the politics of protest - which characterised the Corbyn era - as the Brexit lies unfold.

 

[CHAPPERS]

So two identical pie in the sky sales pitches - one of them you instantly disbelieve and the other you're a cheerleader for. I wonder why

I support the red team ra ra ra, you support the blue team booooooooooo

That depends on whether you think the Labour plan that they costed and put in the manifesto is pie in the sky or not I guess.

Tories are deliberately paper thin in these areas.

 

[beorhthelm]

So two identical pie in the sky sales pitches - one of them you instantly disbelieve and the other you're a cheerleader for. I wonder why

I support the red team ra ra ra, you support the blue team booooooooooo

exactly. we need to stop and ask do we need this policy, or if this is the right way achieve an objective. we dont need either gigabit fibre either way, but get bogged down in which team is promising it.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

re-nationalising industries appeals to neither the young who now work differently nor the old who had seen it, done it and glad they were privatised.

Yet support for re-nationalisation generally runs between 2:1 and 3:1 in favour - and support is even higher the younger you go - around 6:1 in favour of railway re-nationalisation among 18-24 year-olds. Support for re-nationalisation of the railways among the over 65s stand at 56% while just 32% are opposed to re-nationalisation.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

The ludicrous promise to abandon ALL current student loans and write off the debt of graduates. That policy would have bankrupted the U.K. in one fell swoop.

To start with - Corbyn didn't promise to "abandon ALL current student loans and write off the debt of graduates" - what he promised in 2017 is that students going to college the following year would not be charged fees. He also said that the LP would look at ways of reducing the burden on graduates who currently have high levels of student debt. In contrast the Tories have been selling off student debts to vulture funds at less than half the value of the loans - and the vulture funds have been hiking the interest on the loans piling additional debt on graduates - many of whom cannot afford basic living expenses as a result.

Corbyn should have committed to wiping out graduate debt - the IFS put the current cost of eliminating graduate debt at £30billion - this could be paid for by a one-off emergency tax of 10% on the richest 20 billionaires - yes - 20 individuals who have individual wealth of at least £6billion - in the UK.

 

[Lower West Stander]

No they didn't they said they were going to raise taxes on multinationals to pay for it.

How much detail on delivery do you want? Down to which engineer will connect your house?

A little more realism on the cost would’ve been good.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Weststander]

Labour is already showing signs of not learning lessons. How 22 MP's think Emily Thornberry should be leader is totally beyond me and now some very prominent Momentum supporting MP's are backing Richard Burgon for deputy rather than Angela Rayner. WTAF. It has to be Starmer and Rayner. They can begin to unite the party and then try and be relevant to people's lives. Appoint a shadow cabinet which brings back some of the credible, sensible Labour MP's ( Copper, Benn, Reeves etc) and give big jobs to Nandy and Phillips. That would be a start in providing some opposition, rather than the politics of protest - which characterised the Corbyn era - as the Brexit lies unfold.

Car Crash Burgon, really? Should we laugh or cry? That would seal the party’s fate for the worse.

One of many incompetent performances:

 

[Billy the Fish]

Yet support for re-nationalisation generally runs between 2:1 and 3:1 in favour - and support is even higher the younger you go - around 6:1 in favour of railway re-nationalisation among 18-24 year-olds. Support for re-nationalisation of the railways among the over 65s stand at 56% while just 32% are opposed to re-nationalisation.

What's your source for this?

 

[Weststander]

There was a proposal for free university education but there was no plan to write off the debt of graduates.

Free university education is a good idea - Germany has it and they're not doing too badly.

You’ve picked an example that proves the exact opposite.

In the UK approaching 55% go to uni.

In Germany it’s 31%. Instead 60% undertake vocational training programs, the equivalent of apprenticeships, dual-track with an employer and studying. These may be with any of the 250,000 ‘Mittelstand’ highly focused small and medium sized companies. Accepted as the driving force for their economic miracle.

Immediately we see that pure academic study in media, tourism, football finance (@El Pres), journalism, costs the German state a relatively fraction than it does England and Wales undergrads.

 

[Bold Seagull]

You’ve picked an example that proves the exact opposite.

In the UK approaching 55% go to uni.

In Germany it’s 31%. Instead 60% undertake vocational training programs, the equivalent of apprenticeships, dual-track with an employer and studying. These may be with any of the 250,000 ‘Mittelstand’ highly focused small and medium sized companies. Accepted as the driving force for their economic miracle.

Immediately we see that pure academic study in media, tourism, football finance (@El Pres), journalism, costs the German state a relatively fraction than it does England and Wales undergrads.

Think your figures are out of date by over 20 years for German Universities. It's getting closer to 60%.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/584155/first-year-students-share-germany/

http://dref.de/en/research/student-numbers-in-germany/