[Politics] Next leader of the Labour party

[BLOCK F]

Mmmm...OK, but I was merely expressing my exasperation, and her 'establishment' quote is sufficient justification. As I said, maybe I'm wrong, and she will turn out to have all the political nous and common sense middle ground instincts that won Blair three GEs

Poor old Bold Seagull, he and his ilk must have taken a right mental bashing since the electorate rejected his crew and his echo chamber ain't echoing anymore.
So beaten up, his once strong left wing will barely lift him off the ground these days.
He dished it out whilst squawking away in his chamber so he'll have to poke up with others of a more balanced view now having their say!
Will he ever get over the tragic loss and stop being so grumpy?

 

[CHAPPERS]

It is behind a paywall... but the headline is: Labour leadership: Two thirds have never heard of any of the contenders to replace Jeremy Corbyn

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...7SXZlmv9bmOULOMMuM5dvyr87U#Echobox=1578383141

Does Boris Johnson still write racist articles for this newspaper?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Sure, wait.

Then once RLB says and does exactly what HWT has listed, she wins the leadership campaign and Labour stays to the left, instead of moving back to the centre where they can actually win elections.

10 more years out of power.

Politics is rarely that simple. Blair won elections in the centre ground because the traditional voters would vote Labour anyway, so all the Red Wall etc. and Tony got many of the metropolitan and seats in the South East as well as Scotland. However that has all changed. London and seats elsewhere have voted Labour moving to the left, but the heartlands where they usually wanted Labour of the left have voted with Brexit as their main political goal.

Now Brexit is done, Labour moving to the centre ground is no guarantee of all those Red Wall voters returning to Labour that occupies a space that pitches them with the Lib Dems and potentially a Tory party bending over backwards to keep them, nor does it attract Scottish or Welsh voters.

This whole centre ground argument is on the assumption that Labour lost purely on policy, not on Brexit, Corbyn, McDonnell etc. Many of their policies and ideas poll well, but no doubt the throw everything into the mix approach of the last election played very badly.

Labour playing to the assumption the electorate will look to the centre ground could be just as damaging in the next election. Tony Blair won 3 elections, but he also succeeded in reducing Labour's vote to 10.7m in 2001 and 9.5m votes by 2005. Corbyn's last 2 elections have been 12.9m votes and 10.3m. Yes that didn't equate to seats of course which is what it is all about, but it also doesn't prove Labour's policies have been universally unpopular either.

 

[Gwylan]

OK, but now you say a couple of their policies were popular.

Because they were - various polls backed that up

Anyway, two of your huge problems will be out the way, Brexit and Corbyn, so if the Corbynista RLB wins, do you believe everything will be fine and dandy in the Labour Party and that the hordes will come back and vote for the party?

No, I think RLB would add to the problems. She hasn't got Corbyn's history (one that was so off-putting to the electorate) but she doesn't strike me as someone who's the sharpest knife in the drawer. Nor does she have the personality to appeal to the public. Starmer and Thornberry certainly have the edge over her in the intellectual stakes, while Philips could strike a chord with the electorate.

For what it is worth, I reckon there were a few more worrying policies in the Labour manifesto, appropriation of capital from listed companies and the proposed nationalisation of companies without paying shareholders the full value of their assets, just to name a couple, but we can let those go for now.

I'm not sure either of those would have resonated as bad ideas with most people - the additional tax burden would have been more of a worry. But I think the main problem with Labour's campaign was that there was no overall strategy - no catchy slogan like "Get Brexit done" and, far from having no policies, had far too many, almost as if they were thinking on the hoof. I don't think the ideas they had were unpopular, per se, but the random way they were presented was highly off-putting.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Maybe these Labour candidates need to waste millions in public money on bullshit vanity projects or unusable water cannons, or have multiple children in order to build some mystery about their persona.

Alternatively, of course, they could assist in having a journlist beaten up.

Then people might know who they are.

 

[BLOCK F]

Maybe these Labour candidates need to waste millions in public money on bullshit vanity projects or unusable water cannons, or have multiple children in order to build some mystery about their persona.

Alternatively, of course, they could assist in having a journlist beaten up.

Then people might know who they are.

Wow, you are touchy aren't you!

 

[Bold Seagull]

Wow, you are touchy aren't you!

Look at you trying to get a rise out of people, like a little puppy after attention.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Wow, you are touchy aren't you!

To be fair, at no point have I addressed you.

 

[BLOCK F]

Because they were - various polls backed that up

Fair comment, but it is pretty easy to put a counter argument forward.


No, I think RLB would add to the problems. She hasn't got Corbyn's history (one that was so off-putting to the electorate) but she doesn't strike me as someone who's the sharpest knife in the drawer. Nor does she have the personality to appeal to the public. Starmer and Thornberry certainly have the edge over her in the intellectual stakes, while Philips could strike a chord with the electorate.

We agree about RLB. In the words of Craig Revell Horwood..............' a disaster, darling!' As a moderate Tory voter, I want to see a strong sensible opposition, capable of holding the Government to account and also one that is capable of being elected.
Wow, sorry Gwylan, this post has come out all wrong and it looks like I have bastartised your post. Sorry, but I haven't got a clue how to alter it back!


I'm not sure either of those would have resonated as bad ideas with most people - the additional tax burden would have been more of a worry. But I think the main problem with Labour's campaign was that there was no overall strategy - no catchy slogan like "Get Brexit done" and, far from having no policies, had far too many, almost as if they were thinking on the hoof. I don't think the ideas they had were unpopular, per se, but the random way they were presented was highly off-putting.

Well, I think once people cottoned on to what it would actually entail, they might start to catch on. Especially those who understand what the implications would be for stockmarket investments, pension funds and foreign investment in this country, let alone the legal rumpus and challenges that would ensue, and that is just for starters!
If you decide to rejoin the Labour Party and vote at least I can rest in peace with the thought that you won't vote for RLB.
Sorry Gwylan, somehow it looks like my post bastardised your quote. I didn't mean to. My answer seems to have got muddled up in your quote and I have no idea how to alter it.It wasn't my intention so please accept my apologies and alter your quote back to its original form!

 

[BLOCK F]

Look at you trying to get a rise out of people, like a little puppy after attention.

Oh you are sore aren't you!
You can dish it out, but you can't take it!

 

[Chicken Run]

Wow, you are touchy aren't you!

He’s not touchy he’s...

 

[Bold Seagull]

Oh you are sore aren't you!
You can dish it out, but you can't take it!

I'm genuinely amused at your craving for attention on this thread. I'm not sure what has given you the impression I can't take it, is it because I called you a puppy?

 

[BLOCK F]

He’s not touchy he’s...

To be fair, I haven't got an argument with Chappers, it is Bold Seagull who is beyond bitter and is off the scale undrinkable!

 

[Bold Seagull]

 

[Guinness Boy]

Vote RLB, get the Tories until 2030 at least. That’s your choice Labour members.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BLOCK F]

I'm genuinely amused at your craving for attention on this thread. I'm not sure what has given you the impression I can't take it, is it because I called you a puppy?

No, I am too old to be considered a puppy and I certainly do not crave attention. I have no such need or desire, and if you even have the slightest teeny weeny knowledge of my politics and posts, you will realise I am pretty moderate in my views. I dislike extremism in all its forms, left and right.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Poor old Bold Seagull, he and his ilk must have taken a right mental bashing since the electorate rejected his crew and his echo chamber ain't echoing anymore.
So beaten up, his once strong left wing will barely lift him off the ground these days.
He dished it out whilst squawking away in his chamber so he'll have to poke up with others of a more balanced view now having their say!
Will he ever get over the tragic loss and stop being so grumpy?

To be fair, I think [MENTION=16159]Bold Seagull[/MENTION] is better than that. More of a case hoping that his crew (and my crew, actually) were actually a real crew in disguise and not Alexander, or

 

[BLOCK F]

:

To be fair, I think [MENTION=16159]Bold Seagull[/MENTION] is better than that. More of a case hoping that his crew (and my crew, actually) were actually a real crew in disguise and not Alexander, or

View attachment 118919

Fair enough Harry, but from what I can recall about some of Bold's 'previous', we may have to disagree about that.
Best Wishes from the attention seeking puppy.........yap, yap!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Politics is rarely that simple. Blair won elections in the centre ground because the traditional voters would vote Labour anyway, so all the Red Wall etc. and Tony got many of the metropolitan and seats in the South East as well as Scotland. However that has all changed. London and seats elsewhere have voted Labour moving to the left, but the heartlands where they usually wanted Labour of the left have voted with Brexit as their main political goal.

Now Brexit is done, Labour moving to the centre ground is no guarantee of all those Red Wall voters returning to Labour that occupies a space that pitches them with the Lib Dems and potentially a Tory party bending over backwards to keep them, nor does it attract Scottish or Welsh voters.

This whole centre ground argument is on the assumption that Labour lost purely on policy, not on Brexit, Corbyn, McDonnell etc. Many of their policies and ideas poll well, but no doubt the throw everything into the mix approach of the last election played very badly.

Labour playing to the assumption the electorate will look to the centre ground could be just as damaging in the next election. Tony Blair won 3 elections, but he also succeeded in reducing Labour's vote to 10.7m in 2001 and 9.5m votes by 2005. Corbyn's last 2 elections have been 12.9m votes and 10.3m. Yes that didn't equate to seats of course which is what it is all about, but it also doesn't prove Labour's policies have been universally unpopular either.

1. Brexit isn't done. When it is done, why would they go back to Corbyn/momentum labour? They were never with them in the first place. Boris won them their Brexit...Labour (Corbyn labour) are now saying they made a mistake over Brexit. How is that going to recruit brexit supporting, Boris-voting former labour voters?

2. The whole centre ground argument, actually, is that this is the only time labour wins. And Brexit, Corbyn, McDonnell etc is not centre ground.

3. So did Mussolini have some popular policies. I'm certainly in favour of the trains running on time. However....

4. So you think your presumed perception that staying where they are (on the 'far' left - let's not debate that bit) isn't 'playing an assumption'? Your figures are not in context. Next you'll be telling us that labour actually won the last election (like one of their spokesmen said, 'inadvertently' on the radio after the election before).

Here is the mindset:

Our policies are brilliant.
We nearly won.
We must have failed to explain our policies properly.
Let's go again with more of the same - bound to win this time!

Einstein's definition of stupidity: doing the same thing again and expecting a different outcome.....<sigh>

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

It’s brilliant isn’t it, who’s got your vote?

Genuine question if Corbyn was on that list as an option for members to vote for him to stay on , would you vote for him?

Absolutely - yes - with the hope that he had learned that there is no point in trying to compromise with the Blairites to keep them onside.