[Politics] Next leader of the Labour party

[Nitram]

You havent really answered my question - what are the specific policies in the current labour program that momentum support that you have a problem with?

That’s because it’s Momentum that is the problem just as it was in the 80’s with Militant Tendency. The electorate see through it and until the issue is addressed then Labour will remain unelectable. Obviously you want to keep hanging on to a dream but that was just trashed in the latest election. It’s not going to happen comrade.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Okay.... so why did he also vote for May's deal?

Because he folded in a game of poker. If you remember, the talk at the time of that last vote was that it was May’s deal or we would end up remaining.

 

[Lever]

Because he folded in a game of poker. If you remember, the talk at the time of that last vote was that it was May’s deal or we would end up remaining.

Mmh.... you make him sound like a conviction politician; not much evidence of that, I'm afraid.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

This from Alan Johnson sums it up for me.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_C6wrSgqtA

Wow...’the voters of Putney.’
Words fail me. I also agree with Alan Johnson. Student union politics does not win elections.

 

[Guinness Boy]

You havent really answered my question - what are the specific policies in the current labour program that momentum support that you have a problem with?

He's answered the correct question though. Momentum is simply an organisation within an organisation. There really seems little point in it existing unless it is agitating within conference and the membership. And what it does there is to back specific, ideologically approved, candidates (for example only backing 12 Labour candidates in the B&H Council elections in May).

There were many good policies in Labour's manifesto. But there were WAY too many of them. It read like a confused wish list rather than something that could actually be done. Like a 1970s Italian restaurant where everything is on the menu, rather than a modern bistro with perhaps five dishes in each section. And that's a direct result of Labour's confused membership structure.

The worst policy of all of them was the "free broadband" one. It reads as a nice idea but it is totally and utterly unachievable. The second worst policy was the confused attitude to Briexit. No one understood it.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Mmh.... you make him sound like a conviction politician; not much evidence of that, I'm afraid.

That was not my intention. I am simply pointing out that in politics, sometimes we have to choose the least worst option.

 

[Doonhamer7]

During the election I listened to a debate with normal people over in West Country and one of things that came out was that as well as Momentum driving in new members was the hundreds and thousands of Tory’s that joined to vote for Corbyn. The bloke in the radio (sounded like a stereotypical Tory - well he sounded like he had a plumb in his mouth) admitted he and other members of the local conservatives had all joined as £3 members to back Corbyn. If true then this was a brilliant tactic and shows lack of thought that went into selection rules by labour. ....on second thoughts maybe labour supporters joined the Tories and voted for Boris, thinking he’d be a liability?

Labour needs to go back to the centre so that normal people (whether blue or white collared) as this is what the British electorate wants - probably generally centre right, do the closest to centre will always win.

 

[Lever]

Whoever heads the Labour Party next must have all the usual qualities we associate with leadership.... but in my opinion should not have any 'history' of having been closely aligned to the current regime (e.g. Jess Phillips). Likewise the new Libdem leadership should not have had a role in the Coalition. (e.g. Leila Moran)

 

[Mayonaise]

However much left wing Labour supporters may want it - Corbyn & Momentum's marxists policies are simply unelectable in modern Britain.

The only Labour prime minister that the country have elected in modern times was Tony Blair and his version of socialism was moderate and centrist.

I often wonder that if Labour had elected David Miliband instead of his brother Ed, we might be in a very different place now but I guess we will never know.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

However much left wing Labour supporters may want it - Corbyn & Momentum's marxists policies are simply unelectable in modern Britain.

The only Labour prime minister that the country have elected in modern times was Tony Blair and his version of socialism was moderate and centrist.

I often wonder that if Labour had elected David Miliband instead of his brother Ed, we might be in a very different place now but I guess we will never know.

This political illiteracy that Corbyn’s policies are/ were Marxist, or “extreme”, really needs to stop.

 

[lawros left foot]

I have read this thoroughly depressing thread, and feel that I should throw in my opinion, for what it's worth.
Labour is in big trouble, the party is split along fundamental lines,the left on one side, the right of the party on the other. There is no leader in the horizon who will unite both wings of the party, as both sets of beliefs are entrenched as we have seen over the last 3 years.
Neither side seems prepared to compromise, the left scream class traitor, and the right anti semitic.As a member of the party, I'm at a loss what we have to do, I thought we had by far the best policies in this election, although, as said earlier, too many of them. I thought Corby n out up a good showing in the election, I'm sure if people just judged him on his performance in this election, he came out ahead of Johnson, but, unfortunately, he had too much of a past history and some previous iffy decisions, to ever be popular with the ordinary voter. The mainstream media played their part in his and Labour's demonisation, but they always demonize Labour. Having the BBC join in this time was a surprise though.

So, the who should the next leader be?
We need a safe pair of hands, someone who won't scare the electorate, but, it's the leader after the next one is the important one, the Tories are safe for 10 years now, barring some huge calamity, Labour must use that time to somehow find a consensus amongst the membership, if not, the party will split, and, maybe it should.
Brexit was the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of Labour voters, as a remainer, I thoughts party's policy was sensible, as the leadership had to appease both sides of the argument, but, that was always a hard sell,and, indeed proved impossible.
I do fear for the next decade, out of Europe, a right wing Government, the possible privatisation of the NHS, the removal of the safety net for less fortunate or able members of our society,and an executive that is proven to lie, and cheat to achieve their aims.

 

[Lever]

However much left wing Labour supporters may want it - Corbyn & Momentum's marxists policies are simply unelectable in modern Britain.

The only Labour prime minister that the country have elected in modern times was Tony Blair and his version of socialism was moderate and centrist.

I often wonder that if Labour had elected David Miliband instead of his brother Ed, we might be in a very different place now but I guess we will never know.

I suspect you are right.... and that is where things started to come unstuck for Labour.

 

[Hugo Rune]

However much left wing Labour supporters may want it - Corbyn & Momentum's marxists policies are simply unelectable in modern Britain.

The only Labour prime minister that the country have elected in modern times was Tony Blair and his version of socialism was moderate and centrist.

I often wonder that if Labour had elected David Miliband instead of his brother Ed, we might be in a very different place now but I guess we will never know.

It was the Unions that got ‘weird Ed’ in. Unions are all about blind short-termism. They are the reason we have such an appalling PM.

 

[lawros left foot]

This political illiteracy that Corbyn’s policies are/ were Marxist, or “extreme”, really needs to stop.

View attachment 118205

View attachment 118206

View attachment 118207

I think you're wasting your time, mate.The msm, the BBC, and the Tories have told the electorate that it's Marxism, and they are happy to believe that. You're fighting many ,many years of indoctrination.

 

[BenGarfield]

That’s because it’s Momentum that is the problem just as it was in the 80’s with Militant Tendency. The electorate see through it and until the issue is addressed then Labour will remain unelectable. Obviously you want to keep hanging on to a dream but that was just trashed in the latest election. It’s not going to happen comrade.

I really dont understand. Clearly you have a problem with "momentum" a group in the labour party which I dont really know much about. Could you explain to me what are their specific policies that you oppose? You seem not to know. Im really curious because maybe I should be alarmed too.

 

[Cirina]

Whats the point now?

The Tories have basically made it Impossible to ever be beaten. They have too many fingers in so many pies. The next Labour leader will be targeted just like Corbyn was. Same goes for all future leaders. Conservatives have so much power now it would be foolish to even try. Though I don't support them at all I have hit the point where trying to change things just won't work so come the next election I'lll just not vote. Whats the point when they will just win it again.

 

[portslade seagull]

I have read this thoroughly depressing thread, and feel that I should throw in my opinion, for what it's worth.
Labour is in big trouble, the party is split along fundamental lines,the left on one side, the right of the party on the other. There is no leader in the horizon who will unite both wings of the party, as both sets of beliefs are entrenched as we have seen over the last 3 years.
Neither side seems prepared to compromise, the left scream class traitor, and the right anti semitic.As a member of the party, I'm at a loss what we have to do, I thought we had by far the best policies in this election, although, as said earlier, too many of them. I thought Corby n out up a good showing in the election, I'm sure if people just judged him on his performance in this election, he came out ahead of Johnson, but, unfortunately, he had too much of a past history and some previous iffy decisions, to ever be popular with the ordinary voter. The mainstream media played their part in his and Labour's demonisation, but they always demonize Labour. Having the BBC join in this time was a surprise though.

So, the who should the next leader be?
We need a safe pair of hands, someone who won't scare the electorate, but, it's the leader after the next one is the important one, the Tories are safe for 10 years now, barring some huge calamity, Labour must use that time to somehow find a consensus amongst the membership, if not, the party will split, and, maybe it should.
Brexit was the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of Labour voters, as a remainer, I thoughts party's policy was sensible, as the leadership had to appease both sides of the argument, but, that was always a hard sell,and, indeed proved impossible.
I do fear for the next decade, out of Europe, a right wing Government, the possible privatisation of the NHS, the removal of the safety net for less fortunate or able members of our society,and an executive that is proven to lie, and cheat to achieve their aims.

All efforts should be made to get Momentum out of the party but with the unions supporting them that's a big ask. Peter Kyle would because great leader imho

 

[DIFFBROOK]

I have read this thoroughly depressing thread, and feel that I should throw in my opinion, for what it's worth.
Labour is in big trouble, the party is split along fundamental lines,the left on one side, the right of the party on the other. There is no leader in the horizon who will unite both wings of the party, as both sets of beliefs are entrenched as we have seen over the last 3 years.
Neither side seems prepared to compromise, the left scream class traitor, and the right anti semitic.As a member of the party, I'm at a loss what we have to do, I thought we had by far the best policies in this election, although, as said earlier, too many of them. I thought Corby n out up a good showing in the election, I'm sure if people just judged him on his performance in this election, he came out ahead of Johnson, but, unfortunately, he had too much of a past history and some previous iffy decisions, to ever be popular with the ordinary voter. The mainstream media played their part in his and Labour's demonisation, but they always demonize Labour. Having the BBC join in this time was a surprise though.

So, the who should the next leader be?
We need a safe pair of hands, someone who won't scare the electorate, but, it's the leader after the next one is the important one, the Tories are safe for 10 years now, barring some huge calamity, Labour must use that time to somehow find a consensus amongst the membership, if not, the party will split, and, maybe it should.
Brexit was the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of Labour voters, as a remainer, I thoughts party's policy was sensible, as the leadership had to appease both sides of the argument, but, that was always a hard sell,and, indeed proved impossible.
I do fear for the next decade, out of Europe, a right wing Government, the possible privatisation of the NHS, the removal of the safety net for less fortunate or able members of our society,and an executive that is proven to lie, and cheat to achieve their aims.

I don't think the Tories are safe at all for 10 years. Many of the seats they have won from Labour were on the basis of Brexit and many of the advantages (or lies) of it. Boris has to deliver on the economy, at a time when it will be under considerable strain from being out of EU on inferior trade deal. There will undoubtedly be more talk of medicines etc in a US trade deal. He also has to deliver on NHS and infrastructure. He won the talk, now he has to deliver.

That alone will not see Labour win. It has to elect a leader who connects with all parts of the country. Moderate. Progressive.

I've had my fill of Momentum. They are like a cancer within the party. Blinded by ideology. I dont want a protest party. I want a Labour Government. If that means sacrificing some principles, or abandoning ideals so be it. A centrist left party is far better than what this country has elected.

But, [MENTION=19800]lawros left foot[/MENTION] , moderates like you need stand up for the party you love and fight for its future.





Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

 

[jimhigham]

Whats the point now?

The Tories have basically made it Impossible to ever be beaten. They have too many fingers in so many pies. The next Labour leader will be targeted just like Corbyn was. Same goes for all future leaders. Conservatives have so much power now it would be foolish to even try. Though I don't support them at all I have hit the point where trying to change things just won't work so come the next election I'lll just not vote. Whats the point when they will just win it again.

To a point but I don't agree that the system is invincible. I was chatting about this with my daughter earlier today. We remarked that the American political establishment is trying very hard to suppress Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez. She is very hard to pin down, as she has the support of a politically engaged youth, she has the measure of social media and is too young to have any skeletons in her closet. I can't see where anybody like that will emerge from the Labour ranks but I'm hopeful that somebody will do so in the not too distant future.

 

[BenGarfield]

He's answered the correct question though. Momentum is simply an organisation within an organisation. There really seems little point in it existing unless it is agitating within conference and the membership. And what it does there is to back specific, ideologically approved, candidates (for example only backing 12 Labour candidates in the B&H Council elections in May).

There were many good policies in Labour's manifesto. But there were WAY too many of them. It read like a confused wish list rather than something that could actually be done. Like a 1970s Italian restaurant where everything is on the menu, rather than a modern bistro with perhaps five dishes in each section. And that's a direct result of Labour's confused membership structure.

The worst policy of all of them was the "free broadband" one. It reads as a nice idea but it is totally and utterly unachievable. The second worst policy was the confused attitude to Briexit. No one understood it.

Ok, does that mean you are opposed to all sub-groups within labour, with suggestions as to who you should support, such as Labour Friends of Israel or Progress, or is it just the left-wing ones you dont like.

Was the free broadband idea specifically sponsored by momentum and Im not sure why it should be unachievable. I agree about Brexit - again I dont know if that was particularly a momentum thing though? I think the party should have, as at the laqst election categorically stated that it supported the result of the refarendum but go for a soft brexit. again this is not a particularly left/right argument but splits both ways. You may be right about too many ideas at the forefront of the campaign but are there any that you regard as particularly objectionable?