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[Football] Newcastle fans and YouTuber support Saudi, confront protesters



The Fish

Exiled Geordie
Jan 5, 2017
403
I do, and I would not be celebrating, making up chants about how rich my club was now, waving a Saudi Flag, or be able to enjoy any success, because it would be their success.
I get that no one liked Mike Ashley, and he might not have run things well, but he did not asset strip your club, apart from sacking Keegan, and selling Andy Carroll, what was it that Ashley did that supposedly ruined your club? He was trying to run the club sustainably from what I can tell, but surrounded himself with shit advisors. Your fans wanted an Abramovich, or other money laundering, sportwashing, FFP busting owner, and now you have one and are closing your eyes to where the funding is coming from. I wouldn't, and it isn't hard to imagine how I would feel about it.
Hardly any of that is true.

He didn't sack Keegan, Keegan resigned and successfully sued for constructive dismissal.
Ashley put nothing into the training ground, academy, stadium for 14 years. Allowing them all to fall into disrepair. He arbitrarily changed the name of the stadium to promote his sportswear shop, he plastered the stadium in tacky adverts for the same. He paid Newcastle United nothing for the until the final season where he paid the princely sum of £1m.

He consistently cut costs throughout the club failing to employ a professional backroom team, relying instead on one man (Lee Charnley) to do the job of dozens. He was successfully sued by Jonas Gutierrez for disability discrimination. He falsely accused fans of making threats on his life. He consistently lied to fans, managers, players, and press. He treated ex-managers, ex-players appallingly, was petty and vindictive (refusing to allow a statue of Shearer to be placed on club grounds and changing the name of the bar from Shearer's to Nine). He gave jobs to mates who had no proven ability for the roles like Wise and Llambias, hadn't done anything in top flight football for years like Keegan, Kinnear, Pardew, and ousted managers who did well and were well liked by the fans; Hughton, Benitez. As I've said he turned a team who for the 14yrs prior had regularly been playing Europe, into one regularly flirting with relegation. A club existing solely to exist, no interest in chasing cups, or striving to be the best it could be, just an entity existing to exist.

I remember the game against Wolves in October 2021, just before the takeover, it was probably the least I've cared about a Newcastle game in my life. A soulless, joyless, emptiness. It wasn't just the defeat or the manner of it, I just didn't care. If we went down we might win some more games but who cares, if we stay up we'll end up in another relegation fight so who cares? What's the point? Nobody at the club wants us to do more, Bruce admitted his remit was to keep us "ticking over". That's not what football is about. It's about striving to be the very best you can be, and Newcastle United could be better than relegation fodder. Even under Ashley we could have been better, employ the right people, trust them to do the job of meeting long term goals. Bloom does it, Benham is doing it, and starting with a much smaller budget than we had. It was Ashley's ego, Ashley parsimony, Ashley's arrogance and incompetence that turned a club from a joyful roller coaster ride, into traffic jammed Mondeo with a knackered stereo. 10,000 people felt the same, and got off the ride.

Our fans wanted change and were keen on takeovers from a group lead by Peter Kenyon, the Orleggi group from Mexico, Henry Mauriss from America, a Saudi individual Sheikh Khaled, and so on. The Athletic ran a poorly worded poll, which detractors have taken liberties with. They asked "Are you in favour of the Saudi takeover", and of course all but a minority voted yes. Now, had the survey asked "Are you in favour of a takeover?" You would have had the same results. Had they asked "Would you rather be owned by the Saudi state, the Orleggi Group, a Group lead by Peter Kenyon or Mike Ashley?" you would have seen far fewer Saudi votes and a more accurate reflection of reality. But you didn't, because clickbait.
 




The Fish

Exiled Geordie
Jan 5, 2017
403
It's not your football club anymore, it belongs to PiF and Newcastle fans are merely shiny accessories being used to sell their sports-washing project to the world. Well done, bravo!
I refer you to what the late great Sir Bobby Robson once said;

What is a club in any case? Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes.

It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city. It’s a small boy clambering up the stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him, and without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love.
 




Neville's Breakfast

Well-known member
May 1, 2016
13,450
Oxton, Birkenhead
I think you're conflating two distinct topics there. I said that the club is what people are tied to, not success, and furthered that point by referencing our attendances have been high regardless of 5 decades without 'success'. And separately I said that Man Utd fans are clamouring for a Qatari takeover, to illustrate that Newcastle fans are not unique in acceptance of ownership from a questionable state.

I didn't say Newcastle "MUST" operate in the same bracket as Manchester United. At all. I didn't even hint at it.
But it seems that Newcastle can only compete with Man U with the Saudi money. The 24 year olds and grandads you used in your example could just protest Saudi ownership and accept a level below Man U. They won’t because they want the success.
 


The Fish

Exiled Geordie
Jan 5, 2017
403
And your club is now the sportswashing vehicle of murders. Nothing more.

Your clown supporters are doing their part in celebrating a vile regime for owners as being more than acceptable.
You really are impenetrable to sense and reason, aren't you? Just trot out the same paper thin cliches without giving any effort to contemplate deeper considerations.
 




The Fish

Exiled Geordie
Jan 5, 2017
403
But it seems that Newcastle can only compete with Man U with the Saudi money. The 24 year olds and grandads you used in your example could just protest Saudi ownership and accept a level below Man U. They won’t because they want the success.
The examples I gave are deliberately not about success, they are both about the more abstracts of football fandom. The former is about ambition and reach, the latter about familial and communal ties. Neither is about success.

Newcastle United aren't playing in the same theatre as Manchester United and even with the blood money we won't be for some time yet. They are arguably the biggest club on the planet, they can attract the very best coaches and the very best players. They can justifiably expect to compete for honours, domestic and international. We cannot. Who knows what might happen next season, or in 5 years time.

As it stands, the current owners have made changes to the backroom, the facilities, the commercial side of the club. Areas that have been neglected for over a decade (arguably longer). The changes to the playing staff have been impressive, but this is not the team of Galaticos that people feared would follow the mega-rich ownership.

We've abided by FFP, we've largely signed players with promise, rather than the finished article. Those players in their prime aren't players out of reach for clubs in the top half; Trippier, Burn, Pope. All were bought for <£20m fees, none are on budget busting wages and all have the right personality.

Even after all of that, we're still light years behind the real elite. No where near to any guarantee of silverware. Success is still a dream to enjoy, rather than a reality to expect.

I'm confident that when the novelty of being run as a professional club wears off the appetite for protesting the ownership will grow. But not yet.
 


Jim in the West

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 13, 2003
4,952
Way out West
You really are impenetrable to sense and reason, aren't you? Just trot out the same paper thin cliches without giving any effort to contemplate deeper considerations.
I have some sympathy with that observation! But - fundamentally - Tyrone is correct - NUFC is a sports-washing vehicle of murderers. It's shameful that the EPL allowed the takeover. It's shameful that so few NUFC fans seem interested in protesting. I have huge sympathy with genuine fans who are doing their best to raise the issues. But using the "barren" Ashley years as a sort of excuse for the acceptance of the Saudi takeover is ridiculous. You won The Championship (twice, I think), were mostly mid-table Premier League, and even had a good run in the Europa League. Ashley was a bad owner....but he didn't sell the club's ground and leave it destitute.
 


aolstudios

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2011
5,276
brighton
I have some sympathy with that observation! But - fundamentally - Tyrone is correct - NUFC is a sports-washing vehicle of murderers. It's shameful that the EPL allowed the takeover. It's shameful that so few NUFC fans seem interested in protesting. I have huge sympathy with genuine fans who are doing their best to raise the issues. But using the "barren" Ashley years as a sort of excuse for the acceptance of the Saudi takeover is ridiculous. You won The Championship (twice, I think), were mostly mid-table Premier League, and even had a good run in the Europa League. Ashley was a bad owner....but he didn't sell the club's ground and leave it destitute.
Or, to state the bleedin obvious. Have anyone sawn into little pieces...
 




Baldseagull

Well-known member
Jan 26, 2012
11,839
Crawley
Hardly any of that is true.

He didn't sack Keegan, Keegan resigned and successfully sued for constructive dismissal.
Ashley put nothing into the training ground, academy, stadium for 14 years. Allowing them all to fall into disrepair. He arbitrarily changed the name of the stadium to promote his sportswear shop, he plastered the stadium in tacky adverts for the same. He paid Newcastle United nothing for the until the final season where he paid the princely sum of £1m.

He consistently cut costs throughout the club failing to employ a professional backroom team, relying instead on one man (Lee Charnley) to do the job of dozens. He was successfully sued by Jonas Gutierrez for disability discrimination. He falsely accused fans of making threats on his life. He consistently lied to fans, managers, players, and press. He treated ex-managers, ex-players appallingly, was petty and vindictive (refusing to allow a statue of Shearer to be placed on club grounds and changing the name of the bar from Shearer's to Nine). He gave jobs to mates who had no proven ability for the roles like Wise and Llambias, hadn't done anything in top flight football for years like Keegan, Kinnear, Pardew, and ousted managers who did well and were well liked by the fans; Hughton, Benitez. As I've said he turned a team who for the 14yrs prior had regularly been playing Europe, into one regularly flirting with relegation. A club existing solely to exist, no interest in chasing cups, or striving to be the best it could be, just an entity existing to exist.

I remember the game against Wolves in October 2021, just before the takeover, it was probably the least I've cared about a Newcastle game in my life. A soulless, joyless, emptiness. It wasn't just the defeat or the manner of it, I just didn't care. If we went down we might win some more games but who cares, if we stay up we'll end up in another relegation fight so who cares? What's the point? Nobody at the club wants us to do more, Bruce admitted his remit was to keep us "ticking over". That's not what football is about. It's about striving to be the very best you can be, and Newcastle United could be better than relegation fodder. Even under Ashley we could have been better, employ the right people, trust them to do the job of meeting long term goals. Bloom does it, Benham is doing it, and starting with a much smaller budget than we had. It was Ashley's ego, Ashley parsimony, Ashley's arrogance and incompetence that turned a club from a joyful roller coaster ride, into traffic jammed Mondeo with a knackered stereo. 10,000 people felt the same, and got off the ride.

Our fans wanted change and were keen on takeovers from a group lead by Peter Kenyon, the Orleggi group from Mexico, Henry Mauriss from America, a Saudi individual Sheikh Khaled, and so on. The Athletic ran a poorly worded poll, which detractors have taken liberties with. They asked "Are you in favour of the Saudi takeover", and of course all but a minority voted yes. Now, had the survey asked "Are you in favour of a takeover?" You would have had the same results. Had they asked "Would you rather be owned by the Saudi state, the Orleggi Group, a Group lead by Peter Kenyon or Mike Ashley?" you would have seen far fewer Saudi votes and a more accurate reflection of reality. But you didn't, because clickbait.
Yeah, not a great or ambitious owner, treated his workers unfairly, don't think he treated any so badly that they were effective slaves, or died through lack if health and safety measures though. Petty and vindictive to the point of changing the name of a bar from Shearers to Nine, but didn't have someone chopped up because he didn't like what he said about him.
 


The Fish

Exiled Geordie
Jan 5, 2017
403
I have some sympathy with that observation! But - fundamentally - Tyrone is correct - NUFC is a sports-washing vehicle of murderers. It's shameful that the EPL allowed the takeover. It's shameful that so few NUFC fans seem interested in protesting. I have huge sympathy with genuine fans who are doing their best to raise the issues. But using the "barren" Ashley years as a sort of excuse for the acceptance of the Saudi takeover is ridiculous. You won The Championship (twice, I think), were mostly mid-table Premier League, and even had a good run in the Europa League. Ashley was a bad owner....but he didn't sell the club's ground and leave it destitute.
But consider this, the fanbase was so divorced from Newcastle United that a normally sold out St James' was 10k down. That, to me, is the best measure of the disconnect between the fans and the club. We've consistently packed out home and away, so consider what the consensus must be to drive 10,000 committed fans away.

I'm 42yrs old and can remember the 'bad' times under Ardilles, the 'glory' of Keegan and Robson, and a whole load of results not matching ambition under a raft of poor managers like Souness, Allardyce etc. At no point did I feel ambivalent to the club. Reducing club to the lame beast that Ashley turned us into, ignores what we were before him. No, we didn't ever flirt with dissolution as other clubs have. And I've never said Ashley was the worst owner of any club. He just sucked the life out of mine. Dad's couldn't convince their children to come with them to the match, shirts of other clubs worn around the city, attending matches was a chore.

So, getting Ashley out mattered more than who replaced him. Tinfoil hat on, but I'm sure that was a factor in choosing Newcastle. With the fans at such a low ebb, we were way more likely to be enthusiastic towards a takeover. If the Saudis had turned their tendrils to Brentford, say, their fans would not be as welcoming. Had we not been bought and the Saudis were still sniffing, I'm sure Everton fans would be equally welcoming. Said before, a good number of Manchester United fans are keen for a Qatari takeover, and their 'troubles' make ours like catastrophic.
 


The Fish

Exiled Geordie
Jan 5, 2017
403
Yeah, not a great or ambitious owner, treated his workers unfairly, don't think he treated any so badly that they were effective slaves, or died through lack if health and safety measures though. Petty and vindictive to the point of changing the name of a bar from Shearers to Nine, but didn't have someone chopped up because he didn't like what he said about him.
Yes, Mike Ashley isn't as villainous as the Saudis are. We've swapped a Dickensian villain for a Bond Villain. You'll get no argument from me on that.
 




Tarpon

Well-known member
Sep 12, 2013
3,801
BN1
I have self-respect. I love my football club, and I think the owners are disgusting and shouldn't be anywhere near an community institution. If the UK Government decided tomorrow that no foreign states could own an English football club, then us and Man City would need to find new owners, just like Chelsea had to. I'd be fine with that. If Brighton were bought by Brunei, it would be rotten, but I sure as shit wouldn't blame the fans.
Dress it up how you like but the bottom line is that you personally condone and actively support / encourage them as owners every time you hand your money over.
 




The Fish

Exiled Geordie
Jan 5, 2017
403
Dress it up how you like but the bottom line is that you personally condone and actively support / encourage them as owners every time you hand your money over.
That isn't the bottom line, the only way that would be the bottom line is if you deal solely in absolutes. I do not condone, support, encourage or defend the owners from criticism at all. I've repeatedly and loudly stated they shouldn't own any football club. But the players are not the owners, the manager isn't the owners, the club isn't the owners and the fanbase certainly isn't the owners. Their politics do not trickle down, just as our politics will be highly unlikely to trickle up.
 










hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
62,759
Chandlers Ford
I'm confident that when the novelty of being run as a professional club wears off the appetite for protesting the ownership will grow. But not yet.
This is brilliant. Your best line yet.

So effectively you are telling us that the Newcastle fans actually ARE against the ownership, but that (for now) the excitement of your shiny new Brazilian / Italian baubles (after those dismal Ashley years of only signing ONE £40m superstar each season) compel you to put your disgust to one side.

But that once you've all settled down and reached a level of entitlement / complacency about your new standing higher up the food chain, THEN you'll all start protesting against these hideous scum?

Great work :bowdown:
 








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