New winger / triallist from Chelmsford City

[El Presidente]

Yes thats true, but if you are a young English player then you need to be be given an advantage to progress ahead of others that aren't English, similarly with local ahead of non local, accepting that the talent pool is similar and your aim is for English/local players to succeed.

I think perhaps the dynamic is different at the very top clubs, they scramble to sign those at the very top tier of young talent, there are less of them and there of a premium, but as soon as you look beyond those talented few into perhaps the Championship the development coach could if capable enough find successes nearer home.

But that would then make the Academy recruitment departments redundant.........

But the majority of fans don't care about background. Look at the abuse directed towards JFC, a product of the Academy, here on NSC.

 

[Bold Seagull]

But the majority of fans don't care about background. Look at the abuse directed towards JFC, a product of the Academy, here on NSC.

Not sure you can take what happens on here as an indication of what a majority of fans think.

 

[BigGully]

But the majority of fans don't care about background. Look at the abuse directed towards JFC, a product of the Academy, here on NSC.

I think you might be mistaking owners with fans, if your owners and their coaches are foreign then there is unlikely to be a rush to implement changes that would advantage young English talent, there are always decision to be made regarding young players, always an alternative, I do not condone the abuse, but he had quite an easy passage through the system up to now, its really not the JFC's that I am talking about.

This isnt aimed at JFC, but once a player has his million pound contract then the player probably becomes a high fee commodity for the club so things tend to get resolved quite quickly, its the young talent that can somehow get lost for all the wrong reasons that needs addressing.

 

[AZ Gull]

Getting back to Joe Ward......

Interesting article on him two years ago from the guy that coached him for two years at Chelmsford College's football academy, former West Ham, Celtic and Ipswich pro Stuart Slater - Stuart Slater urges Ipswich Town to sign up ‘exciting’ teenage trialist Joe Ward

Slater – who made more than 80 appearances for the Blues during the 1990s – has been coaching 17-year-old striker Ward at Chelmsford College’s football academy over the last two years.

The youngster may have started last season playing Sunday League football, but Slater is convinced the speedy goalscorer has got what it takes to make it in the professional game after breaking into Chelmsford City’s first-team squad at the back end of the campaign.

“I started coaching this lad at 15 and couldn’t believe that he had not been in an academy before,” said Sudbury-born Slater, who made his name at West Ham and went on to make a £1.5m switch to Celtic.

“He’s a humble lad though, quite laid back, and I don’t think he knows how good he is. He’s got blistering pace, great feet – right and left – and a super end product. He knows where the goal is and I prefer him up front, but he has got the ability to beat a man if you wanted to play him deeper or out wide.

“As a football fan you want to be excited and this lad is the sort that gets you off your seat. I was an academy coach at West Ham for five years and I know he has what it takes to make it.”

Slater continued: “I used some of my contacts in the game and got him a trial at West Ham towards the back of last season and he scored three goals in four games for their development side – against the likes of Liverpool, Stoke and West Brom.

“West Ham were so impressed they said they would take him, but they couldn’t guarantee that he would be getting many games.

“I didn’t think that would be right for his development so I called Bryan Klug (Town academy director) and Steve McGavin (Town academy recruitment) and got them to take a look.

“He scored for Ipswich (at Chippenham) last weekend and has had a couple of training sessions with Mick McCarthy.

“I’d love him to go to Ipswich because they always had such a strong youth policy when I was there and they have certainly got the right man in Bryan Klug to get that back.

“Both he and Steve McGavin know a good young player when they see one.”

He added: “I’m putting my neck on the block, but I’ve seen him develop from boy to young man and I think he’s got what it takes. I played with a lot of players in my career who had half his talent and pace.

 

[BigGully]

Getting back to Joe Ward......

Interesting article on him two years ago from the guy that coached him for two years at Chelmsford College's football academy, former West Ham, Celtic and Ipswich pro Stuart Slater - Stuart Slater urges Ipswich Town to sign up ‘exciting’ teenage trialist Joe Ward

In some ways it shows what I mean, if Stuart Slater became tomorrow a decision maker at a professional football club or was a recruitment manager, who do you think he would be vouching for when the inevitable decision between Joe and another young player are being made, Slater feels he has a stake in Joe Ward and is making every effort to recommend him.

The West Ham saga doesnt ring true to me, but good luck to him.

 

[AZ Gull]

In some ways it shows what I mean, if Stuart Slater became tomorrow a decision maker at a professional football club or was a recruitment manager, who do you think he would be vouching for when the inevitable decision between Joe and another young player are being made, Slater feels he has a stake in Joe Ward and is making every effort to recommend him.

The West Ham saga doesnt ring true to me, but good luck to him.

Simon Rusk has coached Jimmy Muitt for over three years now, two at U-18 level and for the last few months in the development squad. Surely the best person to have a view on his potential to make it at Championship level (the minimum requirement for it to be worthwhile for Albion to keep him longer term) is Simon Rusk?

Or are you suggesting that Simon Rusk wanted to keep him, but he has been over-ruled by others in the academy to somehow justify their existence?

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

If we are interested in him does that signal the end for Monakana?

Carlisle didn't work out, apparently injured early on.

Always looked okay for the U21s....

 

[NooBHA]

Blah blah tinpot signing from non league bloom out. Barber out taken for mugs etc drone snore.


(just thought I'd save the usual muppets the trouble)

Neil Harris signed at age 20 from Non league for Millwall at age 20 and went on to score 141 goals.

Yannick Bolasie came from Non League and is currently playing brilliantly in the Premiership - Why be so dismissive of a young lad who probably no one on this board has even seen play.

Thats what I want at Brighton. A good scouting system where we pick up players on the cheap and go on to do wonderful things. Sounds like CH cant win with some people. Go for someone we havn't heard of and he gets slated. Go for someone realeased by other clubs and he gets slated. Why don't we wait and see if he even signs the lad and then wait and see how good he is.

He brought Nathan Redmond into the Birmingham team at 16 and Andy Carroll at Newcastle age 18 or 19 and Josh Murphy at Norwich age 17

 

[Mackenzie]

Neil Harris signed at age 20 from Non league for Millwall at age 20 and went on to score 141 goals.

Yannick Bolasie came from Non League and is currently playing brilliantly in the Premiership - Why be so dismissive of a young lad who probably no one on this board has even seen play.

Thats what I want at Brighton. A good scouting system where we pick up players on the cheap and go on to do wonderful things. Sounds like CH cant win with some people. Go for someone we havn't heard of and he gets slated. Go for someone realeased by other clubs and he gets slated. Why don't we wait and see if he even signs the lad and then wait and see how good he is.

He brought Nathan Redmond into the Birmingham team at 16 and Andy Carroll at Newcastle age 18 or 19 and Josh Murphy at Norwich age 17

Absolutely hkfc should be thoroughly ashamed of himself.

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

the Germans tend to get things right.

Apart from World Wars

 

[el punal]

Blah blah tinpot signing from non league bloom out. Barber out taken for mugs etc drone snore.


(just thought I'd save the usual muppets the trouble)

National League ready! (See how up to date I am on that one!)

 

[Megazone]

Apart from World Wars

Never listen to Austrians.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I agree with you to an extent, but there's now a record number of professional clubs in the game (most Conference clubs have gone full time) and so there is a route back for many of them.

Wes Fogden came back into the League with Bournemouth although he did play for Brighton first team for one year.

 

[BigGully]

Simon Rusk has coached Jimmy Muitt for over three years now, two at U-18 level and for the last few months in the development squad. Surely the best person to have a view on his potential to make it at Championship level (the minimum requirement for it to be worthwhile for Albion to keep him longer term) is Simon Rusk?

Or are you suggesting that Simon Rusk wanted to keep him, but he has been over-ruled by others in the academy to somehow justify their existence?

No I am not really making any such assumption, I am guessing Rusk has agreed to let him go and has moved onto what he has got.

It isnt really about Muitt, its more about how the dynamics of assessment might be flawed, this time 6 months ago the development coach was Simon Ireland he was the coach that signed that group of young professionals, it wouldnt surprise me if a good few are now deemed not good enough after one year and a new intake are taken in, with Rusk now holding the baton.

The discussion might be how often a coach is changed and how it impacts on a similar talented group of young players, to me it seems a schizophrenic approach to development.

Perhaps the critical factor throughout the club is the changes, 4 first team managers and 3 U21's managers, it creates an uneasy environment for all young players and effects the outcomes.

 

[Megazone]

Wes Fogden came back into the League with Bournemouth although he did play for Brighton first team for one year.

Russell Martin was playing for Lewes.

 

[Lurchy]

Russell Martin was playing for Lewes.

Yep... after coming up through the Brighton youth team and then being released for not showing enough potential.

 

[Megazone]

Yep... after coming up through the Brighton youth team and then being released for not showing enough potential.

Incorrect. Actually he left on mutual consent. He studied at BHASVIC doing some sort of PE course, instead of taking on a YTS contract with the Albion.

 

[AZ Gull]

It isnt really about Muitt, its more about how the dynamics of assessment might be flawed, this time 6 months ago the development coach was Simon Ireland he was the coach that signed that group of young professionals, it wouldnt surprise me if a good few are now deemed not good enough after one year and a new intake are taken in, with Rusk now holding the baton.

The discussion might be how often a coach is changed and how it impacts on a similar talented group of young players, to me it seems a schizophrenic approach to development.

Perhaps the critical factor throughout the club is the changes, 4 first team managers and 3 U21's managers, it creates an uneasy environment for all young players and effects the outcomes.

I would agree that stability at the coaching level would be desirable, but there are things outside the club's control. Simon Ireland was presumably highly thought of by us (or we wouldn't have employed him), and others, and QPR in particular. If you have ambitious coaches (and surely you WANT ambitious coaches), there is every likelihood that they will move on after two/three years, either internally or to another club.

What do you think the club should be doing differently?

 

[BigGully]

I would agree that stability at the coaching level would be desirable, but there are things outside the club's control. Simon Ireland was presumably highly thought of by us (or we wouldn't have employed him), and others, and QPR in particular. If you have ambitious coaches (and surely you WANT ambitious coaches), there is every likelihood that they will move on after two/three years, either internally or to another club.

What do you think the club should be doing differently?

Its not exclusively a comment on us, its more of an acknowledgement of the dynamics of English football clubs.

Its not ambitious coaches you necessarily need it's good, committed and skilled development coaches that are needed and I am guessing stability is key, but alternatively whats the point of having a poor development coach for a long time and saying that is stable, so recruit the best you can.

If you accept that not all coaches will ever come near to management, then if you can identify a genuinely talented development coach then offer him a contract that reflects his worth, isnt Bergkamp the youth academy coach at Ajax, assuming he is good at it then it is hardly surprising that they have such a conveyor belt.

I think John Moreling is the Head of Academy and has been for a few years, perhaps they think that offers the stability, but it would be unusual if any coach didnt have the ultimate say on who to retain or release, it must have impacted on each youngster, lucky for some others not so lucky, that cant be the answer.

It doesnt need to be BHA fault, who knows, but as my German friend pointed out, they have a clear remit of what he does regarding recruitment, I am not sure that the English game does, we prostitute our game out to owners whos only qualification is personal wealth, our coaches and managers know that their tenure will be 18 months if they are lucky, its regularly accepted that their exit clause is the most important part of negotiations before they even step through the door, even the Academy coaches will be sounded out other opportunity because they too feel so insecure.

What chance for the youngsters in this mix, what chance of genuine development of the young players ??

Remember progression ( getting young players in the squad ) doesnt correlate to development, thats a wholly different skill, too many clubs try to placate their their owners investment, its an engineering job which ultimately will fail.