[News] New constituency boundary proposals

[Herr Tubthumper]

Why do they bother? PR is the future, not this outdated, undemocratic mess of a system.

Quite. This redrawing of the boundaries nonsense simply backs up your case.

 

[pb21]

Haha that is true! Although it was not worded as FPTP or AV. It was AV...yes or no. It was not a vote im favour of the current system either.

Also the Brexit vote was supposedly to claw back control from the nasty EU and their vacuum cleaner laws, back to the ordinary man.

Revising the voting system from FPTP to AV would have achieved a similar goal but people didn't seem to care about that then for some reason.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Going off topic further, I find it interesting how a whole cohort voted for Brexit in the referendum on the basis of sticking their finger up at the establishment telling them to vote to remain and yet were happy to vote for the establishment in a referendum in which the establishment were telling people how to vote just a few years before.

It's a shame idiots are allowed to vote. I've said before, a minimum level of education should be required before you can step into the polling both.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Also the Brexit vote was supposedly to claw back control from the nasty EU and their vacuum cleaner laws, back to the ordinary man.

Revising the voting system from FPTP to AV would have achieved a similar goal but people didn't seem to care about that then for some reason.

It's already been mentioned that av was not a popular choice for an alternative. The government at the time knew that and counted on it being defeated which it duly was. So it was not the same as Brexit or sticking fingers up to the establishment as it was never considered a viable option.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Also the Brexit vote was supposedly to claw back control from the nasty EU and their vacuum cleaner laws, back to the ordinary man.

Revising the voting system from FPTP to AV would have achieved a similar goal but people didn't seem to care about that then for some reason.

Perhaps because both major parties were dead against it so people who couldn't be bothered to look into the issue themselves just listened to what they were told.

And of course the Lib Dems were never in a position to mount a massive media campaign for AV unlike team Brexit. So most people didn't even understand the significance of the vote.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Re the boundary changes, I heard that about 15 Tories would lose their seats under the initial proposals. If this isn't revised (I realise it will be) then May will struggle to get the bill through. If it's revised so that fewer Tories lose seats though then it'll cause uproar. Think there will be huge changes before it even gets to a vote.

 

[Buzzer]

Revising the voting system from FPTP to AV would have achieved a similar goal but people didn't seem to care about that then for some reason.

How does simply changing the counting system for UK elections return power to the ordinary man? You still have the same pool of politicians from the same parties seeking election to the same Parliament where they will exact the same laws in the same way.

I really don't think there's even the slightest correlation between the types of people who voted in the referendum on FPTP and the referendum on Brexit. There were only 9 constituencies in the whole of the UK that wanted the change in electing people including just 2 in Scotland.

 

[pb21]

It's already been mentioned that av was not a popular choice for an alternative. The government at the time knew that and counted on it being defeated which it duly was. So it was not the same as Brexit or sticking fingers up to the establishment as it was never considered a viable option.

It doesn't take much these days for something to become viral or gather ridiculous amounts of public awareness. If ideas of anti establishment voting and grabbing back power from anonymous authorities are so prevalent now there is no reason why similar themes wouldn't have caught on then, regardless. For some reason these are massive issues when it comes to Brexit though!

 

[pb21]

How does simply changing the counting system for UK elections return power to the ordinary man? You still have the same pool of politicians from the same parties seeking election to the same Parliament where they will exact the same laws in the same way.

I really don't think there's even the slightest correlation between the types of people who voted in the referendum on FPTP and the referendum on Brexit. There were only 9 constituencies in the whole of the UK that wanted the change in electing people including just 2 in Scotland.

AV allows for a 'more democratic' government to form. Your vote counts more than in FPTP.

 

[Buzzer]

It doesn't take much these days for something to become viral or gather ridiculous amounts of public awareness. If ideas of anti establishment voting and grabbing back power from anonymous authorities are so prevalent now there is no reason why similar themes wouldn't have caught on then, regardless. For some reason these are massive issues when it comes to Brexit though!

Because Brexit removes a whole layer of government from the UK whereas tinkering with the way that we count votes in the UK elections changes nothing about the way the UK government goes about its business and that's why the majority is not particularly enthusiastic about it.

 

[Buzzer]

AV allows for a 'more democratic' government to form. Your vote counts more than in FPTP.

It's not more democratic. FPTP is a completely legitimate way of democratically electing MPs and there are pros and cons to it as there are with AV.

But once again, I ask - how does AV hand power back to the common man when the voter is still just voting for the same pool of candidates from the same parties to be elected to the same House of Commons? Sure the - percentage splits across parties may be different but it will still be Tory or Labour led under the same Parliamentary structures.

 

[pb21]

Because Brexit removes a whole layer of government from the UK whereas tinkering with the way that we count votes in the UK elections changes nothing about the way the UK government goes about its business and that's why the majority is not particularly enthusiastic about it.

IMO changing the way we vote in this country, either to AV or PR, would fundamentally change how government works and effect people just as much, if not more, than the UK being outside of the EU. That is partly why the establishment were so against it.

In fact the establishment were vastly more pro FPTP than they were Pro EU.

 

[Buzzer]

IMO changing the way we vote in this country, either to AV or PR, would fundamentally change how government works.

Once again - how would it change the way that Government works? AV addresses nothing but the way the MPs are elected, it doesn't change the way they work once they are elected - which is how the Government works.

In fact the establishment were vastly more pro FPTP than they were Pro EU.

And in this regard the Establishment are far more in tune with the population than they are over the EU seeing as neither the Establishment nor the vast majority of people are desperate for electoral reform.

 

[Gwylan]

How does simply changing the counting system for UK elections return power to the ordinary man? You still have the same pool of politicians from the same parties seeking election to the same Parliament where they will exact the same laws in the same way.

It would give more people a say in how MPs are elected and make it easier to get rid of bad MPs. In the current system, we've seen people who are borderline criminals get re-elected because they're wearing the right coloured rosette. We also have a situation where only people in about 100 constituencies have any influence on the election, it seems a bit crazy that a voter in Nuneaton or Crawley has a say in the election of a government and a voter in Ebbw Vale or Haywards Heath doesn't.

Personally, I'm not in favour of PR as I think it loses the link between MP and constituent but I can see there are reasons to support it

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Our current system does not allow us to "vote out bad MP,s" like "Vaseline Vaz" until a G/E therefore although not a Liberal the idea of RECALL rings a bell with me.

 

[Buzzer]

It would give more people a say in how MPs are elected and make it easier to get rid of bad MPs. In the current system, we've seen people who are borderline criminals get re-elected because they're wearing the right coloured rosette. We also have a situation where only people in about 100 constituencies have any influence on the election, it seems a bit crazy that a voter in Nuneaton or Crawley has a say in the election of a government and a voter in Ebbw Vale or Haywards Heath doesn't.

Personally, I'm not in favour of PR as I think it loses the link between MP and constituent but I can see there are reasons to support it

I know I'm repeating myself here but changing how we elect or get rid of MPs merely changes the percentage make-up in Parliament if the candidates that we choose from are from the same pool as FPTP and from the same parties. If we were able to force Keith Vaz to take the Chiltern Hundreds tomorrow then would his Labour replacement be any different under any system? Of course not. Nothing changes.

If we had AV or PR then in all likelihood we would have a Tory/UKIP coalition and Theresa May would still be PM, there would still be the same faces in Government and we would have the same laws being passed or even a more right-wing Government with more right-wing laws. Like you, I believe that the constituency-based MP is more intangibly democratic because it preserves the local link as opposed to the corporate approach that PR brings.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

It would give more people a say in how MPs are elected and make it easier to get rid of bad MPs. In the current system, we've seen people who are borderline criminals get re-elected because they're wearing the right coloured rosette. We also have a situation where only people in about 100 constituencies have any influence on the election, it seems a bit crazy that a voter in Nuneaton or Crawley has a say in the election of a government and a voter in Ebbw Vale or Haywards Heath doesn't.

Personally, I'm not in favour of PR as I think it loses the link between MP and constituent but I can see there are reasons to support it

And that is the situation we are faced with,a list of maybe,s or a Face and Team. Prefer the latter.

 

[beorhthelm]

If we had AV or PR then in all likelihood we would have a Tory/UKIP coalition and Theresa May would still be PM, there would still be the same faces in Government and we would have the same laws being passed or even a more right-wing Government with more right-wing laws.

someone did the analysis and this was the conclusion. Tories on 242, Labour 199, UKIP 89, Liberals 51. its funny all those supporting AV forget that it wasnt even supported very much by the Yes campaign, it was a compromise to do something on voting and many seem to support it on an assumption that it would work against the Tories to keep them out of power forever.

 

[Cian]

The Paisley's long held constituency of North Antrim is being renamed to Dalriada apparently. I can see Ian Jr being DELIGHTED with that

 

[biddles911]

Alternative vote was rejected, not PR. There are a huge number of other voting systems. To have one vote on one system is not saying anything really.

Absolutely correct but a rose by any other name? I think most people would have (sort of) understood that AV is one type of PR (or at least a closer approximation than FPTP) but showed no enthusiasm for the idea at all as far as I can tell.

Can't see anyone resurrecting the idea so I guess it's a goner for the foreseeable future..




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