[Albion] Net Wealth, Investment & TB

[Mellotron]

Tony Bloom is worth a lot, lot more than these estimates.

The idea that he would've given away 25-33% of his wealth to a football club is sheer lunacy.

 

[beorhthelm]

Tony Bloom is worth a lot, lot more than these estimates.

The idea that he would've given away 25-33% of his wealth to a football club is sheer lunacy.

if you have a few hundred million spare, assets to secure you for life and then some, would it be so incredible to give away large proportions of wealth, especially given the long family connections?

 

[El Presidente]

I’m not a football finance expert (that’s [MENTION=31]El Presidente[/MENTION], of course), but I would honestly be gobsmacked if the Albion would go for £550m. On a “normal” industry basis it’s worth less than half that... imo.

To put it in context, Liverpool went for £300 million (albeit in 2011), Wolves £30 million, Southampton £260 million, West Brom £150 million, Aston Villa £70 million. Mike Ashley is looking for £325 million for Newcastle. and Steve Parish £220 million for Palace.

 

[Mellotron]

if you have a few hundred million spare, assets to secure you for life and then some, would it be so incredible to give away large proportions of wealth, especially given the long family connections?

Bear in the mind the commitment as chairman means he is going to have to CONTINUE giving away millions and millions for decades to come yet.

Regardless, it's pretty much the only thing about BHAFC I'm vaguely ITK about. He has a LOT more than £1 billion.

 

[El Presidente]

Bear in the mind the commitment as chairman means he is going to have to CONTINUE giving away millions and millions for decades to come yet.

Regardless, it's pretty much the only thing about BHAFC I'm vaguely ITK about. He has a LOT more than £1 billion.

That's my understanding too. Talking to some financial journalists recently and one asked which team I supported and said the Albion. They were full of praise for TB and said that he's worth more than Bet365.

 

[Barham's tash]

£250m value, really, I'd say considerably more than that:

Stadium, plus Academy, plus squad, plus Premier league status

Yes but the following applies:

Stadium - cost £130m including upgrades
Academy - £37m

Both are being amortised down to zero as per company accounting rules so both are worth less than they cost.

Squad estimated at c£155m according to transfer mkt.

Premier League status - wholly intangible and subjective because it’s not guaranteed so £250m seems about right.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Yes but the following applies:

Stadium - cost £130m including upgrades
Academy - £37m

Both are being amortised down to zero as per company accounting rules so both are worth less than they cost.

Squad estimated at c£155m according to transfer mkt.

Premier League status - wholly intangible and subjective because it’s not guaranteed so £250m seems about right.

Even though, in accountancy terms, a stadium could be written down it still has a value to a purchaser. When you look at recent purchases they may, or may not, have included stadiums and debts, I think IF a purchase included the academy grounds, which let's face it in development value alone is worth a hell of a lot, and stadium along with £155m for the squad and EPL status you'd attract a higher offer than £250m

 

[Gritt23]

There is much speculation about TBs net worth, it ranges from £1bn to £1.7bn, with many saying around £1.2bn.

He's pumped at least £300m into the club or a quarter of his net worth, remembering that net worth is all assets and not just cash.

So he's put a huge amount on the line and it's only when you do this that you actually understand what it's like, what continually goes through your head and why certain decisions are made and people become casualties of your decisions.

People may criticise TB for dismissing Chris but if you had a quarter of ALL your assets wrapped up in a football club would you leave it to chance having nearly lost a massive earning / repayment opportunity?

I think we need to really understand what this investment is, what it could cost him and try to walk in his shoes before we say how we'd handle it.

We have a lot to be thankful for and a huge debt of gratitude to Chris, but even more so to TB.

Was right with you apart from this bit. What makes you think making a change is safer? He's opted to take a chance on a new guy, as opposed to taking the chance on leaving the existing guy in place, but either way, nothing is guaranteed.

 

[Gritt23]

To put it in context, Liverpool went for £300 million (albeit in 2011), Wolves £30 million, Southampton £260 million, West Brom £150 million, Aston Villa £70 million. Mike Ashley is looking for £325 million for Newcastle. and Steve Parish £220 million for Palace.

It's more complicated than that though surely. We own our ground, and training facilities. Both of which are relatively new and therefore not in need of significant further investment. Liverpool need a fortune spent on a new ground, as do Palace, etc, and I have no idea of the state of their training academies, let alone the ownership.

Add to that debt ratios, gearing, what future income streams they are tied in to - maybe a great long-term advertising deal, or maybe they are tied into a crap one, which massively under utilises their potential earnings, but is expensive to buy out of.

There is a lot that goes into setting the price, not least, what the next person is willing to pay.

 

[El Presidente]

It's more complicated than that though surely. We own our ground, and training facilities. Both of which are relatively new and therefore not in need of significant further investment. Liverpool need a fortune spent on a new ground, as do Palace, etc, and I have no idea of the state of their training academies, let alone the ownership.

Add to that debt ratios, gearing, what future income streams they are tied in to - maybe a great long-term advertising deal, or maybe they are tied into a crap one, which massively under utilises their potential earnings, but is expensive to buy out of.

There is a lot that goes into setting the price, not least, what the next person is willing to pay.

Liverpool don't need a new ground, they've just built a new main stand and have a capacity of 54,000 at Anfield that may rise.

As for future income streams, the Albion's main one is broadcast revenues and there is a 50% chance that they will be relegated next season given our budget and then be subject to a decrease of about £60 million in income rising to £100 million if not promoted back to the PL.

Advertising for a club of the Albion's stature isn't great, we are not a global brand with a large international fanbase.

The biggest myth of the Premier League is that it is a major profit earner, collective operating losses were £205 million and clubs are then relying on player sales (erratic and volatile) and owner injections to plug the gap.

 

[Jim in the West]

Yes but the following applies:

Stadium - cost £130m including upgrades
Academy - £37m

Both are being amortised down to zero as per company accounting rules so both are worth less than they cost.

Squad estimated at c£155m according to transfer mkt.

Premier League status - wholly intangible and subjective because it’s not guaranteed so £250m seems about right.

The tangible assets (stadium, academy) are very difficult to put a value on. OK, you can do so for the accounts, but a buyer won't be interested in that. He/she will work out what the future cashflows will be, discount them as appropriate, and arrive at a value. The potential sell-on value (with the next purchaser doing the same exercise) will also come into it. Given the highly unstable nature of future revenue streams, it's extremely difficult to estimate a value for a team in the lower reaches of the Premier League. Mike Ashley - despite his reputed business acumen - doesn't seem to have worked out that if Newcastle become an established top 8 side, then they will be worth A LOT more than a team that constantly flirts with relegation. Unless someone comes along who's simply interested in using the club as a vehicle for their business, or has multi-billions, and wants a Premier League club as a play-thing (Abramovic). Maybe Ashley's after one of them. As for us, this is Tony's club - but he MAY, at some stage, want/need a co-investor.....

 

[Gritt23]

Liverpool don't need a new ground, they've just built a new main stand and have a capacity of 54,000 at Anfield that may rise.

I beg to differ, Anfield is not a great ground to visit, it feels old, it feels tired, and although they modernise it in bits, there has been no secret about their desire (and Evertons) to move.

But that's getting off the point, what I mean is that there are MANY factors that go into valuing a business let alone a football club. Including, as you say, the probability of maintaining the current income streams, primarily Premier league status, and how the club would be able to cope with relegation, when it comes to valuing teh likes of us, Southampton and Newcastle - not so much Liverpool, but they would concern themselves with dropping out of Champions League I suppose.

Then it's further financial strength, such as Balance Sheet value. I believe we run at a negative net worth of about £33m, whereas someone like Southampton have built up to something around £90m I believe.

I simply don't think any of us could estimate what the Albion might be worth if Bloom decided to sell, there are just too many factors which would come into play. Far more than are publicly available via Companies House.

 

[El Presidente]

I simply don't think any of us could estimate what the Albion might be worth if Bloom decided to sell, there are just too many factors which would come into play. Far more than are publicly available via Companies House.

I agree with you totally...but it's not stopped a complete charlatan such as myself giving it a go.

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2019/05/03/man-city-overtake-man-united-as-premier-leagues-most-valuable-club/

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Was right with you apart from this bit. What makes you think making a change is safer? He's opted to take a chance on a new guy, as opposed to taking the chance on leaving the existing guy in place, but either way, nothing is guaranteed.

I'd agree, but with the guy in place we nearly lost it all, and based on the last 23 games, we could do next year. Nothing is guaranteed but if it were my money I'd make a change.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

I agree with you totally...but it's not stopped a complete charlatan such as myself giving it a go.

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2019/05/03/man-city-overtake-man-united-as-premier-leagues-most-valuable-club/

and on 5Live this morning!

 

[Gritt23]

I'd agree, but with the guy in place we nearly lost it all, and based on the last 23 games, we could do next year. Nothing is guaranteed but if it were my money I'd make a change.

And based on nothing more than Swedish football and one year in the middle of the Championship, the next guy could very well take us down, whereas the guy we had in place was never so much in the relegation zone.

Nothing was guaranteed with CH, and nothing will be guaranteed with the next guy, if it was all that predictable, none of us would watch.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

And based on nothing more than Swedish football and one year in the middle of the Championship, the next guy could very well take us down, whereas the guy we had in place was never so much in the relegation zone.

Nothing was guaranteed with CH, and nothing will be guaranteed with the next guy, if it was all that predictable, none of us would watch.

Let's hope you don't need to say "I told you so ......."

 

[Gritt23]

Let's hope you don't need to say "I told you so ......."

I'm not saying he will, btw. Just making the point that we don't know anything for sure about what happens next. We don't even know what the budget will be when he gets here. I keep reading that he has done well on a budget at Swansea. One hand tied behind his back, etc. Hmm, does that mean he's coming in to make better use of what he has, including developing players out of the U23? Not as if he's got a proven track record of dealing with big money signings that perhaps TB didn't have faith in CH to do.

At the moment we know very, very little.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

I'm not saying he will, btw. Just making the point that we don't know anything for sure about what happens next. We don't even know what the budget will be when he gets here. I keep reading that he has done well on a budget at Swansea. One hand tied behind his back, etc. Hmm, does that mean he's coming in to make better use of what he has, including developing players out of the U23? Not as if he's got a proven track record of dealing with big money signings that perhaps TB didn't have faith in CH to do.

At the moment we know very, very little.

Of course, no problem.

You're right though we don't know but we do know that the second half of the season was dire and the football woeful, personally I think we'd be relegation fodder next season but as you say maybe he could've recruited and turned things around but I really don't think he had Plan B in his locker.

 

[Nottseagull]

Yes but the following applies:

Stadium - cost £130m including upgrades
Academy - £37m
.

Am I right in assuming that the apparent discrepancy between those figures is because the Club/Mr Bloom owns the freehold of the Lancing site and not the freehold of Falmer?