[Politics] Natalie Elphic defects to labour

[A1X]

BBC News - New Labour MP Natalie Elphicke accused of lobbying over husband's sexual assault case

New Labour MP Natalie Elphicke accused of lobbying over husband's sexual assault case

The new Labour MP is accused of asking the then justice secretary to help move the date of the case.

www.bbc.co.uk

If only there had been some clues she was a bit dodgy before she was allowed into the Labour party

So the obvious follow up question for the Justice Secretary is why he’s sat on this for years until now? It takes two to tango.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

My prediction is that she'll be fired – or whatever – for this and quite possibly kicked out of the Labour Party. While I get that Starmer might have thought having her 'onside' would be popular among some voters, getting rid of her after the latest shenanigans (if proven to be true) would get a lot more people BACK behind him.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So the obvious follow up question for the Justice Secretary is why he’s sat on this for years until now? It takes two to tango.

Precisely.

I think the Tories would be best advised to jog on over this. They are going to find it hard to weaponize their own corruption, against, er (looks up who she defected to) Labour.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

My prediction is that she'll be fired – or whatever – for this and quite possibly kicked out of the Labour Party. While I get that Starmer might have thought having her 'onside' would be popular among some voters, getting rid of her after the latest shenanigans (if proven to be true) would get a lot more people BACK behind him.

The latest shenanigans were well known four years ago and gently glossed over by the Tories. The Tories digging this up now as a stick with which to beat labour and frighten the electorate is on a par with digging up the rotting corpse of their granny in order to frighten the children. Bizarre and macabre. And unlikely to end well for them.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

As a staunch lefty I’m sick and tired of Corbyn constantly getting thrown under the bus on BBCQT. Nandy was the latest last night and her kissing Elphicks arse last night was sickening.
I won’t be voting for them.

Isn't that the fifth time you've declared you won't be voting for them in recent months? Soon you be virtually sucking your X out of the ballot box

Which lucky bastion of the left will be the humble recipient of your support in the general election, may I ask?

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

Natalie Elphicke took over her husband's seat because he was convicted of sexual assault in 2020 and divorced him, but later smeared his victims as lying and that her ex-husband is an easy target for such claims because he's "attractive."

Then she defects to the Labour Party and Keir Starmer gives her the whip just for coming in the door.

Now it's alleged that she petitioned the justice secretary to move her husband's court date to avoid publicity, Labour MPs are now on TV circling the wagons around her and defending her character. It was a cheap political trick and she should never have been given the whip in the first place.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Strangely enough, I’ve had discussions with contacts in the States that say this is the reason both Biden and Trump are keeping their core supporters - it’s not just political parties that compromise on their policies/standards but the electorate is getting more pragmatic too - because for them in a world where views are becoming more and more polarised, the alternatives don’t bear thinking about - that’s the thinking that will either elect a convicted sex offender and narcissist into power or a leader, clearly too old for the job, that has enabled what many see as tantamount to genocide.

It’s a sad indictment of the state of British politics and FPTP, that the only choice for many is a Party that stands the best chance of keeping their most hated one out rather than one that really reflects their political ideology.

I agree that politics is a funny old game and it always involves compromises with the electorate. As parodied in Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Universe (where people always voted for a lizard, even though they hated the lizards, because if they didn't vote for a lizard the wrong lizard might get elected).

But I fail to see what FPTP has to do with it.

Unless you have a system where the voter does not vote for a candidate (breaking the link between the voter and an individual), the electorate will always have to take the integrity and values of the candidate on trust. And they will then make pragmatic choices over what they see as being in their best interest (or the greater good if they happen to be sufficiently well off or mad to not feel a need to vote in their best interest). This choice is most stark in a presidential election but it applies also to our parliamentary system.

So, if FPTP were replaced by a party system where you vote for a set of immutable commitments (the gold-plated Manifesto) then sure you could select the party that suited your political ideology the best, confident that you would get what you were voting for. If they got in.....

However you would only get what you voted for if your party won.

The folly of anything other than FPTP is that whatever PR system you go for you can guarantee that you will never get exactly what you want owing to the inevitability of a coalition.

As someone who prefers labour I would be a bit worried about a coalition with Green, annoyed about a coalition with the liberals, and livid about a coalition with f***ing Galloway (or Corbyn if he can every get his lazy arse into gear and form a proper new party like he said he would). And if we ever ended up with a labour/tory coalition I would know that we had either lost our tiny minds, or were at war.

 

[BrightonCottager]

Labour's welcoming of Elphicke into the party has cost them my wife's vote at least. But if its cancelled out by thousands of Northern gammons switching to Labour, I guess Starmer won't care. It signals a shift to the right to occupy ground left by the Tories as they shift even further right. In lefty places like Brighton, I guess that'll mean more votes for the Greens.

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

Isn't that the fifth time you've declared you won't be voting for them in recent months? Soon you be virtually sucking your X out of the ballot box

Which lucky bastion of the left will be the humble recipient of your support in the general election, may I ask?

Possibly fourth but hey come on, we generally bat for the same side surely you can see my dilemma.

Anyhoo in answer to your question….

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

Isn't that the fifth time you've declared you won't be voting for them in recent months? Soon you be virtually sucking your X out of the ballot box

Which lucky bastion of the left will be the humble recipient of your support in the general election, may I ask?

(sorry to quote again I’m having trouble with the edit feature…I blame the tories)

….if I am beating this same drum, then it’s because I’m pissed and/or just watched Question Time. Like most things I post on here they should be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

Soon you be virtually sucking your X out of the ballot box

…..and that would be teaching my granny to suck X

 

[Zeberdi]

I agree that politics is a funny old game and it always involves compromises with the electorate. As parodied in Hitch-hiker's Guide to the Universe (where people always voted for a lizard, even though they hated the lizards, because if they didn't vote for a lizard the wrong lizard might get elected).

But I fail to see what FPTP has to do with it.

Unless you have a system where the voter does not vote for a candidate (breaking the link between the voter and an individual), the electorate will always have to take the integrity and values of the candidate on trust. And they will then make pragmatic choices over what they see as being in their best interest (or the greater good if they happen to be sufficiently well off or mad to not feel a need to vote in their best interest). This choice is most stark in a presidential election but it applies also to our parliamentary system.

So, if FPTP were replaced by a party system where you vote for a set of immutable commitments (the gold-plated Manifesto) then sure you could select the party that suited your political ideology the best, confident that you would get what you were voting for. If they got in.....

However you would only get what you voted for if your party won.

The folly of anything other than FPTP is that whatever PR system you go for you can guarantee that you will never get exactly what you want owing to the inevitability of a coalition.

As someone who prefers labour I would be a bit worried about a coalition with Green, annoyed about a coalition with the liberals, and livid about a coalition with f***ing Galloway (or Corbyn if he can every get his lazy arse into gear and form a proper new party like he said he would). And if we ever ended up with a labour/tory coalition I would know that we had either lost our tiny minds, or were at war.

TL;DR

Seriously, I would be very happy to have at least a few MPs in Parliament shouting my corner than none at all. The Greens for example have had a strong influence in Europe and around the world - a Party does not have to be in overall control to have an impact.

How Green-Party Success Is Reshaping Global Politics

Once a fringe movement, green parties are increasingly shaping the debate in countries around the world. How influential are they, and what comes next?

www.cfr.org

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

TL;DR

Seriously, I would be very happy to have at least a few MPs in Parliament shouting my corner than none at all. The Greens for example have had a strong influence in Europe and around the world - a Party does not have to be in overall control to have an impact.

How Green-Party Success Is Reshaping Global Politics

Once a fringe movement, green parties are increasingly shaping the debate in countries around the world. How influential are they, and what comes next?

www.cfr.org

To paraphrase something 'Bron Waugh said on a very early radio 5 phone in to someone moaning about fairness, "You want to change the system so that you can have what I've got, whereas I want to keep the system as it is because I don't want you to have it".

The only reason I'd change my mind would be if we ended up with a permanent tory hegemony, but I would do, wouldn't I?

 

[Zeberdi]

To paraphrase something 'Bron Waugh said on a very early radio 5 phone in to someone moaning about fairness, "You want to change the system so that you can have what I've got, whereas I want to keep the system as it is because I don't want you to have it".

The only reason I'd change my mind would be if we ended up with a permanent tory hegemony, but I would do, wouldn't I?

I haven’t changed my mind either H - the last thing I want is the ’ toss-her-Lettuce‘ representing me in Parliament for another minute longer - as soon as the election date is called, I’ll be working to get the Labour candidate elected. However, I was a very active Green Party founding member for most of the late 80’s/early 90s and only defected to Labour under John Smith because there was a hope in ell of the Green Party winning a General Election and I got disillusioned with campaigning for what was then, no more than a pressure group (I continued to vote for the Greens in local elections though) . I was involved with the Socialist Workers Party at College - my Granddad 50 years TUC member used to keep copies of the Socialist Worker in his shed (hidden from my Gran) so guess I was influenced by him.

I suppose in reality, my ideology now is very much a combination of the pragmatic ‘New Labour’ but with a strong environmental and social justice core that is not just domestic in its outlook but global too.

 

[BrightonCottager]

Possibly fourth but hey come on, we generally bat for the same side surely you can see my dilemma.

Anyhoo in answer to your question….

View attachment 182234

Up The Fulham.

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

Up The Fulham.

I always thought that was a Peacehaven scarf

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I always thought that was a Peacehaven scarf

You’ve well and truly been let down by the left haven’t you?

 

[Peacehaven Wild Kids]

You’ve well and truly been let down by the left haven’t you?

It all started with Alan B’stard

 

[Randy McNob]

Never more has the case for a total change in the electoral voting system been more compelling that today, and PR is shown to be tried and trusted in most other democracies. Turnouts in those countries compared to ours is also proof enough, and less likely 'divide and rule' politics would prevail. The current term of government shows that with one party given total power it can be abused where one small ideologically driven sect of the party can take control and govern the entire country based on that ideology regardless of the needs and wants of the electorate and society as a whole. This should never be allowed happen again. I'd like to see, after the next GE, perhaps as a starting point, a national consensus on what people think of the political system and guage whether there is an appetite for change

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I haven’t changed my mind either H - the last thing I want is the ’ toss-her-Lettuce‘ representing me in Parliament for another minute longer - as soon as the election date is called, I’ll be working to get the Labour candidate elected. However, I was a very active Green Party founding member for most of the late 80’s/early 90s and only defected to Labour under John Smith because there was a hope in ell of the Green Party winning a General Election and I got disillusioned with campaigning for what was then, no more than a pressure group (I continued to vote for the Greens in local elections though) . I was involved with the Socialist Workers Party at College - my Granddad 50 years TUC member used to keep copies of the Socialist Worker in his shed (hidden from my Gran) so guess I was influenced by him.

I suppose in reality, my ideology now is very much a combination of the pragmatic ‘New Labour’ but with a strong environmental and social justice core that is not just domestic in its outlook but global too.

Very sensible.

The art of the possible.

If Starmer looks rubbish after a year, I may start getting active with my local party and causing maximum consternation (like I do, ahem, at work - albeit my attempt to become HoD was blocked; I think they saw what was coming )

I like the idea of the Greens. The problem is the evident single issue element. The same problem affected the various incarnations of the 'Brexit' party (if you happen to fancy a bit of Brexit), and has left the oaf whose name escapes me who ran it as nothing more than a dimbot huffer-puffer on GB news).

Anyway, at the end of the day, I'm not very collegiate (who knew?) and probably function better as a thorn in the side of the machine, rather than as the Fat Controller him/herself. (Whisper it, our Dear Leader asked me if I wanted to be a moderator, 20 years ago, and I declined on the grounds of being 'too busy'. Now he knows what I'm really like, any prospect of a second invitation has wilted like the Truss lettuce, or an elderly gentleman's aspirations during a Viagra shortage )