[Albion] Napoli interested in Billy Gilmour **Sold 30/08/24**

[Han Solo]

Its a mistake regardless of how much he wanted to leave.

Made 10 "progressive passes" against United. Our midfield against Arsenal playing with 10 men for 45 minute? Four from Baleba, one from Milner, one from Ayari. Against the utterly shite Everton? Four from Milner, three from Wieffer. Despite only 98 minutes on the pitch, he's still got the 2nd (behind Dunk) most passes into the final 3rd. Topped that chart per 90 for us last season. Only player in the squad, along with Pascal, to find 8+ progressive passes per game last season.

People think you don't need this. You only need big boys who stop the ball from going in and boys who put the ball in the net. Simplez.

Doesn't work like that though. Build up and attack yesterday was atrocious for 49 minutes - only three attempts during those. We had a weird spell in the first half where for 10 minutes we had 82% possession (according to TV) and all we got out of it was a blocked shot from Jack from 30 meters. No engine in midfield, no playmaker around to get the ball to our attacking players.

Way too similar as this spring when Billy was out for seven games and the team only scored one goal. I liked what I saw from Wieffer... but if the guy is going to be injured all pre season, playing a game and then injured for weeks again, well then it really doesn't matter how good he is. Baleba is going to be a top class player, but he's no playmaker.

Better pray for Wieffer to get/stay fit, Hinsh to be put in midfield or O'Riley to get back quickly, because Baleba/Milner/Ayari as a trio is relegation stuff. Don't let one point against a 10-men-team trick you into thinking otherwise.

We'd be in a MUCH better position with Billy still around. From my view the most disappointing transfer decision in the five years I've followed team, because its just so unnecessary. Spend £100m on fancy new attackers and then play James Milner every week. What a waste.

 

[dazzer6666]

To us as negotiators. To how fans see the club and the deal. To the fact that, for a second season in a row, we’ve lost our first choice midfield from the previous year and we now have Milner in there as a go to option.

I mean it’s not a good deal from the club’s perspective, there’s no getting around that.

Disagree. Yet again we've proven that we'll do what's best for the player when the time comes (see also Burn, Groß, Ali Mac, White etc). It's precisely this that's helping us attract so many talented younger players.

 

[dazzer6666]

Its a mistake regardless of how much he wanted to leave.

Made 10 "progressive passes" against United. Our midfield against Arsenal playing with 10 men for 45 minute? Four from Baleba, one from Milner, one from Ayari. Against the utterly shite Everton? Four from Milner, three from Wieffer. Despite only 98 minutes on the pitch, he's still got the 2nd (behind Dunk) most passes into the final 3rd. Topped that chart per 90 for us last season. Only player in the squad, along with Pascal, to find 8+ progressive passes per game last season.

People think you don't need this. You only need big boys who stop the ball from going in and boys who put the ball in the net. Simplez.

Doesn't work like that though. Build up and attack yesterday was atrocious for 49 minutes - only three attempts during those. We had a weird spell in the first half where for 10 minutes we had 82% possession (according to TV) and all we got out of it was a blocked shot from Jack from 30 meters. No engine in midfield, no playmaker around to get the ball to our attacking players.

Way too similar as this spring when Billy was out for seven games and the team only scored one goal. I liked what I saw from Wieffer... but if the guy is going to be injured all pre season, playing a game and then injured for weeks again, well then it really doesn't matter how good he is. Baleba is going to be a top class player, but he's no playmaker.

Better pray for Wieffer to get/stay fit, Hinsh to be put in midfield or O'Riley to get back quickly, because Baleba/Milner/Ayari as a trio is relegation stuff. Don't let one point against a 10-men-team trick you into thinking otherwise.

We'd be in a MUCH better position with Billy still around. From my view the most disappointing transfer decision in the five years I've followed team, because its just so unnecessary. Spend £100m on fancy new attackers and then play James Milner every week. What a waste.

.........not if he really wanted the move. Having a disaffected player in the squad who isn't getting enough minutes isn't helpful

 

[pocketseagull]

.........not if he really wanted the move. Having a disaffected player in the squad who isn't getting enough minutes isn't helpful

Caicedo basically quit via instagram, Stephens handed in a transfer request, Dunk likewise. Was the club wrong to say no to the players? It doesn't look like he was so far back in the queue to not be getting many minutes?

 

[dazzer6666]

Caicedo basically quit via instagram, Stephens handed in a transfer request, Dunk likewise. Was the club wrong to say no to the players? It doesn't look like he was so far back in the queue to not be getting many minutes?

Maybe for him simply not being a starter was enough to prompt the decision. He also busted his balls v united so remained completely professional

 

[RandyWanger]

and we now have Milner in there as a go to option.

Who went off injured in the last game after 15 minutes

 

[Han Solo]

.........not if he really wanted the move. Having a disaffected player in the squad who isn't getting enough minutes isn't helpful

Its the best thing to do in some situations. Allowing Pascal to go home was one of those.

PB has explained a million times that we don't let players go just because they want it, but it also needs to be right for us (which in most cases means a big bag of money).

How is this deal right for us? What do we get? Napoli gets a good player, Billy gets a big fat paycheck and to be a key player in a big club. Mats Wieffer, if he is fit, which he hasn't been since April, gets to be certain of a starting role. But what the hell is in it for us? Declan Rice or Sean Dyche aren't going to win midfield for us every week.

 

[Bodian]

Yes, B&HA have developed a reputation as smart negotiators -- and WBG to Napoli is going to have zero impact on that. B&HA also have a reputation of not standing in the way of a player/coach who wants to move on provided the deal is right -- and WBG to Napoli will reinforce that.

And we made a profit as well.

PB has explained a million times that we don't let players go just because they want it, but it also needs to be right for us (which in most cases means a big bag of money).

How is this deal right for us? What do we get?

We made a profit.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Its a mistake regardless of how much he wanted to leave.

Made 10 "progressive passes" against United. Our midfield against Arsenal playing with 10 men for 45 minute? Four from Baleba, one from Milner, one from Ayari. Against the utterly shite Everton? Four from Milner, three from Wieffer. Despite only 98 minutes on the pitch, he's still got the 2nd (behind Dunk) most passes into the final 3rd. Topped that chart per 90 for us last season. Only player in the squad, along with Pascal, to find 8+ progressive passes per game last season.

People think you don't need this. You only need big boys who stop the ball from going in and boys who put the ball in the net. Simplez.

Doesn't work like that though. Build up and attack yesterday was atrocious for 49 minutes - only three attempts during those. We had a weird spell in the first half where for 10 minutes we had 82% possession (according to TV) and all we got out of it was a blocked shot from Jack from 30 meters. No engine in midfield, no playmaker around to get the ball to our attacking players.

Way too similar as this spring when Billy was out for seven games and the team only scored one goal. I liked what I saw from Wieffer... but if the guy is going to be injured all pre season, playing a game and then injured for weeks again, well then it really doesn't matter how good he is. Baleba is going to be a top class player, but he's no playmaker.

Better pray for Wieffer to get/stay fit, Hinsh to be put in midfield or O'Riley to get back quickly, because Baleba/Milner/Ayari as a trio is relegation stuff. Don't let one point against a 10-men-team trick you into thinking otherwise.

We'd be in a MUCH better position with Billy still around. From my view the most disappointing transfer decision in the five years I've followed team, because its just so unnecessary. Spend £100m on fancy new attackers and then play James Milner every week. What a waste.

Absolute nonsense to compare all three games.

At Everton he came on with the game already stretched and us winning. Everton are notorious for starting fast and burning out. They did it again on Saturday. Arsenal are one of the best sides at home in the world. They dominated the first half, which manchild Billy wouldn't have done anything about. You sticking him up against Partey and expecting him to come out on top? After the sending off they simply sat back in a low block and aimed to hit us over the top, meaning we were always going to have the ball but that they were always going to be closing off our routes. Despite this we scored with a ball through them that was quick and bypassed midfield altogether.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Its the best thing to do in some situations. Allowing Pascal to go home was one of those.

PB has explained a million times that we don't let players go just because they want it, but it also needs to be right for us (which in most cases means a big bag of money).

How is this deal right for us? What do we get? Napoli gets a good player, Billy gets a big fat paycheck and to be a key player in a big club. Mats Wieffer, if he is fit, which he hasn't been since April, gets to be certain of a starting role. But what the hell is in it for us? Declan Rice or Sean Dyche aren't going to win midfield for us every week.

I think that's the key bit in bold. WBG clearly didn't feel valued by the Albion (the lack of game time in Japan erased any doubt on that score), just like he clearly didn't feel valued by Chelsea before that. Every player worth their salt likes to feel that they are central to a manager's plans. For a player with over 30 senior international caps at the age of 23, he's clearly not been feeling the love at club level up to now. He's entitled to feel he deserves better

 

[jackanada]

Its a mistake regardless of how much he wanted to leave.

Made 10 "progressive passes" against United. Our midfield against Arsenal playing with 10 men for 45 minute? Four from Baleba, one from Milner, one from Ayari. Against the utterly shite Everton? Four from Milner, three from Wieffer. Despite only 98 minutes on the pitch, he's still got the 2nd (behind Dunk) most passes into the final 3rd. Topped that chart per 90 for us last season. Only player in the squad, along with Pascal, to find 8+ progressive passes per game last season.

People think you don't need this. You only need big boys who stop the ball from going in and boys who put the ball in the net. Simplez.

Doesn't work like that though. Build up and attack yesterday was atrocious for 49 minutes - only three attempts during those. We had a weird spell in the first half where for 10 minutes we had 82% possession (according to TV) and all we got out of it was a blocked shot from Jack from 30 meters. No engine in midfield, no playmaker around to get the ball to our attacking players.

Way too similar as this spring when Billy was out for seven games and the team only scored one goal. I liked what I saw from Wieffer... but if the guy is going to be injured all pre season, playing a game and then injured for weeks again, well then it really doesn't matter how good he is. Baleba is going to be a top class player, but he's no playmaker.

Better pray for Wieffer to get/stay fit, Hinsh to be put in midfield or O'Riley to get back quickly, because Baleba/Milner/Ayari as a trio is relegation stuff. Don't let one point against a 10-men-team trick you into thinking otherwise.

We'd be in a MUCH better position with Billy still around. From my view the most disappointing transfer decision in the five years I've followed team, because its just so unnecessary. Spend £100m on fancy new attackers and then play James Milner every week. What a waste.

You make a good point on progressive passes, and of the options we've seen as dual 8s Weiffer is the one who might have that, and Hinshelwood is such a smart footballer for his age you think he could have that once his stand in LB days are over.
Of course we could both be thinking too conservatively and adjustments to our formation and patterns of play over the international break or an unforseen positional change for another player make the whole issue less pressing.
Meanwhile all the best to WBG. Can see him doing well in Italy as the regista or volante.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

We haven't yet seen O'Riley or Gruda (or even Ferdi in midfield) so maybe we should reserve judgement.

 

[Coldwaltham Seagull]

Its a mistake regardless of how much he wanted to leave.

Made 10 "progressive passes" against United. Our midfield against Arsenal playing with 10 men for 45 minute? Four from Baleba, one from Milner, one from Ayari. Against the utterly shite Everton? Four from Milner, three from Wieffer. Despite only 98 minutes on the pitch, he's still got the 2nd (behind Dunk) most passes into the final 3rd. Topped that chart per 90 for us last season. Only player in the squad, along with Pascal, to find 8+ progressive passes per game last season.

I agree with you very much that the squad without Gilmour is weaker but comparing stats between the Arsenal and Man United games is lazy, its apples and oranges. They are completed different sides, requiring different tactical approaches- in one we were playing a top class team away from home, and in the other Man United were playing a top class team away from home.

 

[Baldseagull]

Its a mistake regardless of how much he wanted to leave.

Made 10 "progressive passes" against United. Our midfield against Arsenal playing with 10 men for 45 minute? Four from Baleba, one from Milner, one from Ayari. Against the utterly shite Everton? Four from Milner, three from Wieffer. Despite only 98 minutes on the pitch, he's still got the 2nd (behind Dunk) most passes into the final 3rd. Topped that chart per 90 for us last season. Only player in the squad, along with Pascal, to find 8+ progressive passes per game last season.

People think you don't need this. You only need big boys who stop the ball from going in and boys who put the ball in the net. Simplez.

Doesn't work like that though. Build up and attack yesterday was atrocious for 49 minutes - only three attempts during those. We had a weird spell in the first half where for 10 minutes we had 82% possession (according to TV) and all we got out of it was a blocked shot from Jack from 30 meters. No engine in midfield, no playmaker around to get the ball to our attacking players.

Way too similar as this spring when Billy was out for seven games and the team only scored one goal. I liked what I saw from Wieffer... but if the guy is going to be injured all pre season, playing a game and then injured for weeks again, well then it really doesn't matter how good he is. Baleba is going to be a top class player, but he's no playmaker.

Better pray for Wieffer to get/stay fit, Hinsh to be put in midfield or O'Riley to get back quickly, because Baleba/Milner/Ayari as a trio is relegation stuff. Don't let one point against a 10-men-team trick you into thinking otherwise.

We'd be in a MUCH better position with Billy still around. From my view the most disappointing transfer decision in the five years I've followed team, because its just so unnecessary. Spend £100m on fancy new attackers and then play James Milner every week. What a waste.

I would be happier to have him that not, but he had a good offer.
Besides, we need a little space to bring the next ones through. Ayari and Hinshelwood will have room to grow.

 

[Weststander]

I think that's the key bit in bold. WBG clearly didn't feel valued by the Albion (the lack of game time in Japan erased any doubt on that score), just like he clearly didn't feel valued by Chelsea before that. Every player worth their salt likes to feel that they are central to a manager's plans. For a player with over 30 senior international caps at the age of 23, he's clearly not been feeling the love at club level up to now. He's entitled to feel he deserves better

His heart was set on joining Napoli long before the Japan tour.

 

[dazzer6666]

Its the best thing to do in some situations. Allowing Pascal to go home was one of those.

PB has explained a million times that we don't let players go just because they want it, but it also needs to be right for us (which in most cases means a big bag of money).

How is this deal right for us? What do we get? Napoli gets a good player, Billy gets a big fat paycheck and to be a key player in a big club. Mats Wieffer, if he is fit, which he hasn't been since April, gets to be certain of a starting role. But what the hell is in it for us? Declan Rice or Sean Dyche aren't going to win midfield for us every week.

I don't for a minute think it's the outcome we wanted, but it's rarely as black and white as being perfect for both sides and there's almost always a degree of compromise. We've stood by our principles of not standing in the way of a player that wants to move (whatever his reasons), which is a critical element of our recruitment MO. We also avoid having a potentially moody and disaffected player kicking around Lancing until the next window.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Its the best thing to do in some situations. Allowing Pascal to go home was one of those.

PB has explained a million times that we don't let players go just because they want it, but it also needs to be right for us (which in most cases means a big bag of money).

How is this deal right for us? What do we get? Napoli gets a good player, Billy gets a big fat paycheck and to be a key player in a big club. Mats Wieffer, if he is fit, which he hasn't been since April, gets to be certain of a starting role. But what the hell is in it for us? Declan Rice or Sean Dyche aren't going to win midfield for us every week.

Again you've made an exaggeration that isn't strictly true to try and dig yourself out of an argument hole.

Weiffer came on against QPR, started against Villareal and played the full 90 at Everton. His injury now is a different one to his one in April. Any long term issue would have shown up on the medical.

Meanwhile we're just going to have to pick from Ayari, Baleba, Hinshlewood and Moder with O'Riley and Milner to come back in if, in fact, Mats Weiffer's career is over.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

.........not if he really wanted the move. Having a disaffected player in the squad who isn't getting enough minutes isn't helpful

Wasn’t he MotM the week before? He didn’t look that disaffected. And that doesn’t stop it being poor negotiation on the club’s part.

 

[dazzer6666]

Wasn’t he MotM the week before? He didn’t look that disaffected. And that doesn’t stop it being poor negotiation on the club’s part.

Umm, at that point he thought the move was on didn’t he ? It was seemingly the O’Riley injury that changed things. And unless you were party to the negotiations what makes you think they were ‘poor’ ?

 

[Freddo]

Umm, at that point he thought the move was on didn’t he ? It was seemingly the O’Riley injury that changed things. And unless you were party to the negotiations what makes you think they were ‘poor’ ?

Probably the fact that we only got £12m for Billy Gilmour when he played 30 Premier League games last season and 8 games in the Europa League, and the likes of Scott Mctominay, Oliver Skipp, Sander Berge, and Elliot Anderson went for considerably more.