[Albion] Napoli interested in Billy Gilmour **Sold 30/08/24**

[Triggaaar]

Scored a couple from memory… scored against Man Utd as well.

Wasn't that the previous season?

 

[de la zouch]

I’m assuming our new boss doesn’t fancy him as a starter, hence the speculation. He is clearly a talented player but one that falls between two stools. He isn’t powerful enough to be effective in the defensive role and he lacks the creativity to play in the more attacking position. I can see him being very effective in a true midfield 3 where his Jack of all trades master of none will back up his partners in the middle of the park.
If we sell him for less than 15 it’s because we want to sell. I think his “true” market value (if we weren’t looking to sell) is probably 20 million.

 

[brighton_tom]

It's interesting you say that about the role he played in RDZ's tactics because I actually struggled with a part of Gilmore's game last season , that I couldn't get my head around. And just to say, I don't dislike Gilmore, this is purely an observation.

In RDZ’s first season, there were tactical analysis videos doing the rounds about how the albion would play through the press. The fundamentals consisted of the defenders putting their foot on the ball and baiting the press. A midfielder would drop back which would cause an opposition player to follow him, and in turn this would create a hole in opposition lines. The defender with the ball could pass to the other center back who could then pass through the hole. Or the defender could pass to the midfielder who'd dropped back and they would quickly pass through the hole. Essentially, it was cornerstone movement of that first season and we did it every game repeatedly.
Largely it was Caicedo who did this job, but also Mac Allister.

When they both departed, I was interested to see how we'd cope. But I don't remember seeing Gilmore do this job once last season. In fairness I don't think anyone did. I was particularly struck by how we played more direct balls, particularly early last year. And that's what I struggled with. Was that a deliberate change in tactics from RDZ? Or was the change in the way we played dictated by the players available. Was Gilmore not doing that job because he didn't understand it, or had he been told not to? I genuinely can't decide and I think we could only know the answer if we know what RDZ told the players last year.

Spot on with how you describe MacAllister and Caicedo's role in our tactics, but to say Gilmour never did this is just wrong. For sure Gilmour wasn't as good as the first two at it (but thats a hard act to follow), and as last season progressed we certainly developed our tactics (or had to because teams were figuring us out) being less reliant on these passing moves out of defence, but it still happened more than I think you're giving us credit for... and the best option we had to do this was Gilmour in tandem with Gross. But regardless of those specific passing moves out of defence Gilmour and Gross were the two most active midfielders we had in calling for the ball from defence, and dictating how our build up play would start. But anyway, im not saying Gilmour is this Zidane level centre mid, I just think some are underplaying his role last season and welcoming his sale too easily. Especially as the incoming centre mids are unproven at Prem level. Last season we were better with him in the team and this season he may well still be needed even if just as a rotation player. We look to have upgraded with Wieffer and Gomez, and Hurzeler's tactics may have less need for Gilmour, so we could sell, but if we do it will not be because he's suddenly turned into Kemi Agustien.

 

[Perry Milkins]

Spot on with how you describe MacAllister and Caicedo's role in our tactics, but to say Gilmour never did this is just wrong. For sure Gilmour wasn't as good as the first two at it (but thats a hard act to follow), and as last season progressed we certainly developed our tactics (or had to because teams were figuring us out) being less reliant on these passing moves out of defence, but it still happened more than I think you're giving us credit for... and the best option we had to do this was Gilmour in tandem with Gross. But regardless of those specific passing moves out of defence Gilmour and Gross were the two most active midfielders we had in calling for the ball from defence, and dictating how our build up play would start. But anyway, im not saying Gilmour is this Zidane level centre mid, I just think some are underplaying his role last season and welcoming his sale too easily. Especially as the incoming centre mids are unproven at Prem level. Last season we were better with him in the team and this season he may well still be needed even if just as a rotation player. We look to have upgraded with Wieffer and Gomez, and Hurzeler's tactics may have less need for Gilmour, so we could sell, but if we do it will not be because he's suddenly turned into Kemi Agustien.

Is Gomez definitely coming?

 

[brighton_tom]

Is Gomez definitely coming?

Looks very very likely from reports this week, but might stay with Inter Miami until December/January. Even more reason to keep Gilmour at least for this year while we wait for Gomez.

 

[Insel affe]

Is Gomez definitely coming?

yep

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

Not a love in, but I do think some are ignoring what he does bring to our midfield & the role he played in RDZ’s tactics. This coming season he may not be relied upon as much as now we have potentially upgraded with Weiffer, there may be others joining, & a new manager with different tactics is in place. & so we may sell.. but it will not be because he’s suddenly rubbish. Last year he was a crucial cog in our style of play. The goals/assist stat is a pointless comment, it simply wasn’t his job within the tactics to be involved in the final 3rd.

People keep saying goal creation was not Billy's job, but statistically he was taking 1 shot and performing 3 shot creation actions per premier League game. He was just not very good at making them count.

As for not being involved in the final 3rd, his heatmap for last season says he popped up around the opposition box enough for questions to be asked.

 

[Braggfan]

Spot on with how you describe MacAllister and Caicedo's role in our tactics, but to say Gilmour never did this is just wrong. For sure Gilmour wasn't as good as the first two at it (but thats a hard act to follow), and as last season progressed we certainly developed our tactics (or had to because teams were figuring us out) being less reliant on these passing moves out of defence, but it still happened more than I think you're giving us credit for... and the best option we had to do this was Gilmour in tandem with Gross. But regardless of those specific passing moves out of defence Gilmour and Gross were the two most active midfielders we had in calling for the ball from defence, and dictating how our build up play would start. But anyway, im not saying Gilmour is this Zidane level centre mid, I just think some are underplaying his role last season and welcoming his sale too easily. Especially as the incoming centre mids are unproven at Prem level. Last season we were better with him in the team and this season he may well still be needed even if just as a rotation player. We look to have upgraded with Wieffer and Gomez, and Hurzeler's tactics may have less need for Gilmour, so we could sell, but if we do it will not be because he's suddenly turned into Kemi Agustien.

You are right that Caicedo and Mac Allister were a hard act to follow.

I did try to point out that I wasn't having a pop at Gilmore, but I appreciate that sentiment gets lost if I then point out a failing. But rather than a failing I was trying to say that Gilmore, for me, was an enigma. Because I don't think he did that role of dropping back at all. But he did other things very well. He rotated the ball, and did it quickly, which allowed us to transition quickly, keep possession etc. He was a big part of the things our midfield did well. To me it seemed like he had a slightly different skill set to what we had in the first season. And like I say, I can't decide if our change in tactics was a decision by RDZ or because the different skill set dictated it. Maybe it was a bit of both.

 

[brighton_tom]

People keep saying goal creation was not Billy's job, but statistically he was taking 1 shot and performing 3 shot creation actions per premier League game. He was just not very good at making them count.

As for not being involved in the final 3rd, his heatmap for last season says he popped up around the opposition box enough for questions to be asked.

View attachment 186263

Popped up around the box, but from that heatmap almost never in it. Difficult to criticise a players goal rate if they are primarily a defensive mid & also never in the box.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

Wasn't that the previous season?

I think he got a goal and assist in each of the two seasons he played in the PL for us. Can’t remember who the assists were against but the goals were against Man Utd home (21-22) and Leicester home (22-23).

 

[WhingForPresident]

Is Gomez definitely coming?

Apparently not until January though. Starting to think Yalcouye and Ayari are going to get a shot this season. Maybe Moder is staying as well? He seems to fit the profile of what Hurzeler wants in a midfielder.

 

[dwayne]

Apparently not until January though. Starting to think Yalcouye and Ayari are going to get a shot this season. Maybe Moder is staying as well? He seems to fit the profile of what Hurzeler wants in a midfielder.

Lower midtable at best then.

We need at least another experienced CM

 

[Hugo Rune]

Apparently not until January though. Starting to think Yalcouye and Ayari are going to get a shot this season. Maybe Moder is staying as well? He seems to fit the profile of what Hurzeler wants in a midfielder.

Naylor has been banging on about how Hürzeler uses midfielders differently to RDZ. Hence the sale of Gilmour.

I’m starting to think that he could play two attacking midfielders ahead of a back 3. That brings players like Enciso and perhaps, even Pedro and Welbeck into consideration for those central spots.

You are right about Moder apart from his goals and assists stats. Hürzeler might want to see if Jakub is capable of repeating his stats from Poland under his tutelage.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

Naylor has been banging on about how Hürzeler uses midfielders differently to RDZ. Hence the sale of Gilmour.

I’m starting to think that he could play two attacking midfielders ahead of a back 3. That brings players like Enciso and perhaps, even Pedro and Welbeck into consideration for those central spots.

You are right about Moder apart from his goals and assists stats. Hürzeler might want to see if Jakub is capable of repeating his stats from Poland under his tutelage.

I was going to say something similar. He likes two box-to-box midfielders ahead of the back three, which isn't really what Billy does. The same could be said for Gross, hence allowing him to move too.

I suspect Wieffer will play the third centre-back role, and we'll see Baleba & one other being the box-to-box players. Buonanotte did it well in Japan, and Yalcouye looks well-suited too.

 

[dwayne]

I was going to say something similar. He likes two box-to-box midfielders ahead of the back three, which isn't really what Billy does. The same could be said for Gross, hence allowing him to move too.

I suspect Wieffer will play the third centre-back role, and we'll see Baleba & one other being the box-to-box players. Buonanotte did it well in Japan, and Yalcouye looks well-suited too.

There's no way yalcouye will be in the squad !! He has 11 professional appearances in a league 2 standard league to his name.

Seen no evidence that Baleba is ready yet and Bounanotte is inconsistent.

If billy and pascal go we need at least one more in if not two

 

[Surf's Up]

There's no way yalcouye will be in the squad !! He has 11 professional appearances in a league 2 standard league to his name.

Seen no evidence that Baleba is ready yet and Bounanotte is inconsistent.

If billy and pascal go we need at least one more in if not two

and there's talk about Buonanotte going to Holland (Feyenoord?) either on loan or permanently.

 

[Flounce]

and there's talk about Buonanotte going to Holland (Feyenoord?) either on loan or permanently.

I am hoping that is absolute bullshit

 

[Freddo]

I was going to say something similar. He likes two box-to-box midfielders ahead of the back three, which isn't really what Billy does. The same could be said for Gross, hence allowing him to move too.

I suspect Wieffer will play the third centre-back role, and we'll see Baleba & one other being the box-to-box players. Buonanotte did it well in Japan, and Yalcouye looks well-suited too.

I don't really understand the idea of spending loads of money on Wieffer and then playing him out of position.

 

[warmleyseagull]

Can't tell if you're whooshing us or you don't know anything about football.

More likes than your post, so who's whooshing or ignorant? To be fair, I am being slightly whooshy but IMO WBG is marginal to us. See post #449.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

There's no way yalcouye will be in the squad !! He has 11 professional appearances in a league 2 standard league to his name.

Seen no evidence that Baleba is ready yet and Bounanotte is inconsistent.

If billy and pascal go we need at least one more in if not two

Well according to Twitter he's impressed the management team and they're considering keeping him in the first team squad. And if you've seen no evidence of Baleba being ready you didn't watch us play at the end of last season. When Gilmour was out for a few games, Baleba was man of the match half the games he played in. And yes, Facundo is inconsistent, as is Baleba... because they're young.

You either still haven't worked out the Brighton model, or you're the current manager of Marseille

I don't really understand the idea of spending loads of money on Wieffer and then playing him out of position.

I don't think Hurzeler has set positions like most coaches. Wieffer is a holding midfielder, which is the job he would do as the third central defender when in possession... he would then slip back into the defence out of possession. Maybe we spent lots of money as we believe (and/or the data suggests) that he can do that job well?