Murder arrests over PC Dave Phillips.

[alfredmizen]

Many thanks for your adult contribution. As your mature approach is incapable of finding out important information for yourself, Iet's allow a child to do it for you. And while we're at it, perhaps you could reciprocate by informing us of the number of police deaths that have occurred in a similar period.

http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/deaths-in-police-custody

https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Documents/research_stats/Deaths_Report_1314.pdf

http://www.inquest.org.uk/issues/bame-deaths

Perhaps [MENTION=31796]alfredmizen[/MENTION] might want to refer to the last of these, but I suspect that it'd be ignored. I'm not going to respond to any further points on this thread, because:
-- I've made my point
-- there is a policy on NSC that prevents a 'ding-dong' between two posters (or groups of posters), and I don't want to trouble the mods on this
-- I'm not expecting too much in the way of intelligent responses, although might revisit this if someone can take the trouble to do so

You realise you will look a weapons grade tool with your silly, white middle class, 6th form common room , ive been to notting hill carnival and bumped knuckles with a black man while he ripped me off for an 8th of weed, suburban right on outlook.


oh and in 2013 there were 17 deaths in police custody, 2 of them black , in 2012 there were 9, one of them black.

 

[HitchinSeagull]

Many thanks for your adult contribution. As your mature approach is incapable of finding out important information for yourself, Iet's allow a child to do it for you. And while we're at it, perhaps you could reciprocate by informing us of the number of police deaths that have occurred in a similar period.

http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/deaths-in-police-custody

https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Documents/research_stats/Deaths_Report_1314.pdf

http://www.inquest.org.uk/issues/bame-deaths

Perhaps [MENTION=31796]alfredmizen[/MENTION] might want to refer to the last of these, but I suspect that it'd be ignored. I'm not going to respond to any further points on this thread, because:
-- I've made my point
-- there is a policy on NSC that prevents a 'ding-dong' between two posters (or groups of posters), and I don't want to trouble the mods on this
-- I'm not expecting too much in the way of intelligent responses, although might revisit this if someone can take the trouble to do so

So you think its intelligent to compare deaths in custody with deaths of serving police officers and you think they should be about equal do you?, Is that utter nonsense meant to be making your point? In custody you will be dealing with Drug use, health issues, Mental health and many instances of violent behaviour, Id love to see you dealing with any of those after your wide experience on the mean streets of Elm Grove. You do not have the faintest idea of what your talking about.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

Many thanks for your adult contribution. As your mature approach is incapable of finding out important information for yourself, Iet's allow a child to do it for you. And while we're at it, perhaps you could reciprocate by informing us of the number of police deaths that have occurred in a similar period.

http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/deaths-in-police-custody

https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Documents/research_stats/Deaths_Report_1314.pdf

http://www.inquest.org.uk/issues/bame-deaths

Perhaps @alfredmizen might want to refer to the last of these, but I suspect that it'd be ignored. I'm not going to respond to any further points on this thread, because:
-- I've made my point
-- there is a policy on NSC that prevents a 'ding-dong' between two posters (or groups of posters), and I don't want to trouble the mods on this
-- I'm not expecting too much in the way of intelligent responses, although might revisit this if someone can take the trouble to do so

You can't just leave a comment so stupid, say you've made your point, then flounce.

- Murderers caught
- Thread posted
- "Why don't you post when people die in custody?".

Do you understand how that makes you look?

 

[Hastings gull]

Many thanks for your adult contribution. As your mature approach is incapable of finding out important information for yourself, Iet's allow a child to do it for you. And while we're at it, perhaps you could reciprocate by informing us of the number of police deaths that have occurred in a similar period.

http://www.inquest.org.uk/statistics/deaths-in-police-custody

https://www.ipcc.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Documents/research_stats/Deaths_Report_1314.pdf

http://www.inquest.org.uk/issues/bame-deaths

Perhaps [MENTION=31796]alfredmizen[/MENTION] might want to refer to the last of these, but I suspect that it'd be ignored. I'm not going to respond to any further points on this thread, because:
-- I've made my point
-- there is a policy on NSC that prevents a 'ding-dong' between two posters (or groups of posters), and I don't want to trouble the mods on this
-- I'm not expecting too much in the way of intelligent responses, although might revisit this if someone can take the trouble to do so

Personally, I would be wary of using a pressure group's website as something we should all look at. They might be concerned at the "amount" of black people's deaths in custody, but that does not necessarily mean a great deal. Also their assertion that there is overuse of prison for black people is a very sweeping statement, which reflects their suspicions - nothing else! I suppose the underlying issue here is one of good old "wacism". I know from Police family members how hard it is to work in custody suites, with some very difficult people, full of drugs and/or alcohol, and for all you know, black people, armed in addition with the suspicion that they are being unfairly treated because of their colour, because that is what pressure groups tell them, may be on average more violent. Just a thought.

 

[Buzzer]

I'm not expecting too much in the way of intelligent responses, although might revisit this if someone can take the trouble to do so

My goodness, you have a very inflated opinion of yourself . You're comparing the death of a PC in the line of duty with deaths in police custody and producing statistics that give no indications as to the nature of the deaths or whether any officer has been presumed to have acted unlawfully. The two just aren't comparable and I've got to say the way you've posted in this thread is pretty childish bearing in mind it's about a dead policeman who leaves a widow and children. I just hope you never need police help in the future, given that you clearly don't respect them.

 

[chimneys]

His poor wife and little girls. I really feel for them.

Just watched the footage of his wife/young daughters laying flowers. Its rare that I cry!!

 

[Machiavelli]

Personally, I would be wary of using a pressure group's website as something we should all look at. They might be concerned at the "amount" of black people's deaths in custody, but that does not necessarily mean a great deal. Also their assertion that there is overuse of prison for black people is a very sweeping statement, which reflects their suspicions - nothing else! I suppose the underlying issue here is one of good old "wacism". I know from Police family members how hard it is to work in custody suites, with some very difficult people, full of drugs and/or alcohol, and for all you know, black people, armed in addition with the suspicion that they are being unfairly treated because of their colour, because that is what pressure groups tell them, may be on average more violent. Just a thought.

But I haven't merely used a pressure group's website; I've also used the IPCC report. Beyond that, apart from your dismissal of 'wacism', I agree with what you say. This is another way of saying that I'm not attempting to state that the circumstances surrounding deaths in custody with deaths of policeman in the line of duty are comparable (qualitatively), only that there's a lot more of the former than the latter (quantitatively).

 

[Buzzer]

I'm not attempting to compare deaths in custody with deaths of policeman in the line of duty, only that there's a lot more of the former than the latter.

"there's a lot more of the former than the latter". If that's not comparing two things then I'm a Palace fan.

 

[Machiavelli]

"there's a lot more of the former than the latter". If that's not comparing two things then I'm a Palace fan.

You're not a Palace fan. And I've edited that post to clarify.

 

[Buzzer]

You're not a Palace fan. And I've edited that post to clarify.

You haven't clarified. You claim you're not comparing the deaths of police officers with the deaths in custody but then go on to say that there's a lot more of one than the other. That is, without a doubt, comparing the two things.

 

[Monsieur Le Plonk]

Just watched the footage of his wife/young daughters laying flowers. Its rare that I cry!!

A television in the open plan office I work at had it on and it riled me hugely.
Sky showing close up's of the family's grief and despair with the headline something about the 'family showing respect'.
FFS Sky, where is your f*cking respect. How is that newsworthy? Let them get on with it with dignity and privacy.

 

[Hastings gull]

But I haven't merely used a pressure group's website; I've also used the IPCC report. Beyond that, apart from your dismissal of 'wacism', I agree with what you say. This is another way of saying that I'm not attempting to compare deaths in custody with deaths of policeman in the line of duty, only that there's a lot more of the former than the latter.

I appreciate that this was not your only reference, but nonetheless you chose to include it, and I did notice IPCC, rest assured. By the way, I don't dismiss racism as such, as I am sure that it plays a part in our society, with people of all backgrounds guilty of it, just that it is clearly over-used. Just yesterday, my future son-in-law arrested a person who was not of ethnic white background, or whatever the current fashionable expression is, and was told by the offender that the arrest was because he was ( I will say for reasons of confidentiality) not white.
As to your assertion that you are not comparing, I am afraid your last sentence clearly reveals that you are. I can't help feeling that this was a post that really did not fit into this particular thread, and then was compounded by you making comments about other's intellectual worth.

 

[Diablo]

Do you post threads when the police get arrested and charged with murder for all those black men who have died in custody ...


... Oh

No comparison..One is innocent man doing his job......Other is criminal in Custody( I note you put in Black, to bring a race issue into it.Alway guaranteed to stir it up)and whilst there of course have been deaths most if not all are caused by resistance/fighting.
Bet you have no figures for deaths of people in custody who do as told..

 

[Hastings gull]

A television in the open plan office I work at had it on and it riled me hugely.
Sky showing close up's of the family's grief and despair with the headline something about the 'family showing respect'.
FFS Sky, where is your f*cking respect. How is that newsworthy? Let them get on with it with dignity and privacy.

Yes, I have often thought this and this is hardly the first instance of the media intruding to bring as much pathos as possible. They just love pictures of crying relatives. We have all experienced some sort of bereavement in our lives, and I am sure that most of us would not want this to be a public spectacle.

 

[chimneys]

A television in the open plan office I work at had it on and it riled me hugely.
Sky showing close up's of the family's grief and despair with the headline something about the 'family showing respect'.
FFS Sky, where is your f*cking respect. How is that newsworthy? Let them get on with it with dignity and privacy.

The family asked for cameras to be present, is what the BBC footage said.

 

[Hastings gull]

The family asked for cameras to be present, is what the BBC footage said.

Yes, IF that is the case, then fine -that is their prerogative.

 

[chimneys]

Yes, IF that is the case, then fine -that is their prerogative.

Just reviewed the commentary:

"Cameras are watching with the co-operation of the family........they are happy for us to be there", is what the BBC reporter said.

Pretty certain that if the family had wanted otherwise, their wishes would have been respected by the BBC in this situation.

Maybe the family thought the consequent visible hurt to loved ones might prick the conscience of those harbouring the truth and may also help to deter others from following a similar path.

 

[Hastings gull]

Just reviewed the commentary:

"Cameras are watching with the co-operation of the family........they are happy for us to be there", is what the BBC reporter said.

Pretty certain that if the family had wanted otherwise, their wishes would have been respected by the BBC in this situation.

Maybe the family thought the consequent visible hurt to loved ones might prick the conscience of those harbouring the truth and may also help to deter others from following a similar path.

Yes, I would also assume that this might be their reaction -so desperately sad for them, and how difficult it is going to be for those two little girls. Our grand-daughter is 5, almost 6, and is confused about the idea of "died" and so here's hoping that they can cope with it all as best as possible. Doesn't bear thinking about.

 

[Machiavelli]

I appreciate that this was not your only reference, but nonetheless you chose to include it, and I did notice IPCC, rest assured. By the way, I don't dismiss racism as such, as I am sure that it plays a part in our society, with people of all backgrounds guilty of it, just that it is clearly over-used. Just yesterday, my future son-in-law arrested a person who was not of ethnic white background, or whatever the current fashionable expression is, and was told by the offender that the arrest was because he was ( I will say for reasons of confidentiality) not white.
As to your assertion that you are not comparing, I am afraid your last sentence clearly reveals that you are. I can't help feeling that this was a post that really did not fit into this particular thread, and then was compounded by you making comments about other's intellectual worth.

You're not alone in stating that I am comparing, when I'm claiming not to be. You wrote cogently in your first response to me how complex situations are in police custody, which is unarguable, and in stark contrast to the situation that led to the death of this police officer. This I understand to be a qualitative comparison, one that is different from the quantitative comparison I went on to make. I take your final point, alongside both the responses, and will now bow out of this thread.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Do you post threads when the police get arrested and charged with murder for all those black men who have died in custody ...


... Oh

Who said anything about colour ? Murder is murder whatever your skin colour is. Well it is in my book.