[Albion] Mr Potter has got to sort out his blind spot or else...

[Barnet Seagull]

Potters biggest failing is not being able to set up a team up to cope with aggressive lower league players. After three minutes it was clear to me that we were not winning any 50/50s and that it was going to be a tough night. Once again we tried to play tippy tappy football against a competitive team who chased down everything and forced a goal from one chance. Not having anyone other than Biss, who is a one in twenty player when shooting, who is willing to run at players is a big problem. We aren’t good enough to play through a packed defence. Really bad day at the office for Gp

Is this Potters failing?

Id bet my lunch money he knows exactly how to beat a low block, you could tell from the setup.
The problem i think was/is in the execution. You need width but crucially you need to move the ball at pace and over longer distances. We didnt do enough.







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[Icy Gull]

Is this Potters failing?

Id bet my lunch money he knows exactly how to beat a low block, you could tell from the setup.
The problem i think was/is in the execution. You need width but crucially you need to move the ball at pace and over longer distances. We didnt do enough.







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You need to compete for every ball from kick off against lower PL teams and I don’t think we did. We lost early 50/50s by not being as competitive as United. This is a failing highlighted against all the bottom clubs except Newcastle. Just my opinion, right or wrong. We don’t battle, we try and play through them and it hasn’t worked and we were outfought last night until they scored, then they sat back and gave us all the time we wanted. The missed chances don’t help I appreciate

 

[raymondo]

Nah sorry I'm no longer having that.

Irrespective of who is playing striker the default setting for our oh so pretty system (which I do enjoy) will always be:-

'if only we had a better striker'.

The system creates a 1001 half chances but only 2 decent chances.


I get suckered in by the press, the movement, (no matter how slow) and the talent on show, but the bottom line is it doesn't produce much and it produces nothing against a team of defenders.

The Emperor needs to but on some more clothes.

Critical point you make... many half chances, few really good ones.

 

[SEWDONIM]

This is my take, as someone who openly called for Potter out but is now more of a 'Potter-sceptic".

Potter shows some tactical naivety at times. Sheffield United showed that once again, they played a low and narrow block that made breaking through them very difficult - that's the purpose of a low block, anyone with basic coaching knowledge knows how they work. Often, the most 'effective' way of beating a low block is for the attacking team to play more wide, whipping in crosses and hoping to create chances that way. Which is why you often see teams like Dyches', Pulis' and Big Sam's teams having giants in their defences, because the most 'effective' way of defending crosses is to have bigger defenders who can also head the ball and have high aerial dual win %.

We did not introduce much width into the game against Sheffield United until like, the 70th minute, when Jahanbaksh was bought on - this is when we had the numerous scuffed chances that most league one strikers would put away....from 3 yards out. Nonetheless, our best chances came when we introduced width into the game.

However, to Potter's defence - we have injuries to consider. March and Lamptey being out, both who offer natural attacking width with defensive qualities means we are very limited going forward using a back-3, wing-back formation. That's a fair enough situation that Potter has largely done well out off. The problem, however, has been that we don't appear to have much of a Plan-B in terms of a formation, Potter often gets praised for tactical ingenuity, I'm not actually overly convinced he is all that inventive. The only time we saw a considerable change in tactics and formation was against Newcastle at home. HOWEVER, the fact we have a few key players out, Potter is largely restrained in his selection. White being suspended proved to be a massive problem, because we had Veltman as a centre-back, I think Dan Burn would have been a better choice and stuck Veltman in his usual position; we know Veltman is a good enough wing-back, why the change.

Another problem Potter has, which was again shown on Saturday, quality of our forwards. Maupay cannot be criticised for his work rate, his tenacity - he is truly a work horse who works absolutely hard on the pitch but he really isn't good enough for the league. The same goes for Connolly, a young prospect who I believe has the potential, but needs a loan to get confidence. Nonetheless, we are reliant on Welbeck, a player who has never been prolific. It's clear we need a 'terrier' type of player, bit nasty and loves to stick his leg out in the 6 yard box in hope of getting a flukey goal.

What is obvious to me, is that we try to walk the ball into the goal way too often, we over complicate our final 3rd. We're a tinpot mid-2010s Arsenal, all flare and no end product. We really just need to be more simple sometimes.

TL;DR

We sometimes really tactically naive

BUT

Potter has to deal with 2 key players (Lamptey and March, both wing-backs) being out until next season.
Potter also has to deal with a blunt strike force.

 

[maltaseagull]

This is my take, as someone who openly called for Potter out but is now more of a 'Potter-sceptic".

Potter shows some tactical naivety at times. Sheffield United showed that once again, they played a low and narrow block that made breaking through them very difficult - that's the purpose of a low block, anyone with basic coaching knowledge knows how they work. Often, the most 'effective' way of beating a low block is for the attacking team to play more wide, whipping in crosses and hoping to create chances that way. Which is why you often see teams like Dyches', Pulis' and Big Sam's teams having giants in their defences, because the most 'effective' way of defending crosses is to have bigger defenders who can also head the ball and have high aerial dual win %.

We did not introduce much width into the game against Sheffield United until like, the 70th minute, when Jahanbaksh was bought on - this is when we had the numerous scuffed chances that most league one strikers would put away....from 3 yards out. Nonetheless, our best chances came when we introduced width into the game.

However, to Potter's defence - we have injuries to consider. March and Lamptey being out, both who offer natural attacking width with defensive qualities means we are very limited going forward using a back-3, wing-back formation. That's a fair enough situation that Potter has largely done well out off. The problem, however, has been that we don't appear to have much of a Plan-B in terms of a formation, Potter often gets praised for tactical ingenuity, I'm not actually overly convinced he is all that inventive. The only time we saw a considerable change in tactics and formation was against Newcastle at home. HOWEVER, the fact we have a few key players out, Potter is largely restrained in his selection. White being suspended proved to be a massive problem, because we had Veltman as a centre-back, I think Dan Burn would have been a better choice and stuck Veltman in his usual position; we know Veltman is a good enough wing-back, why the change.

Another problem Potter has, which was again shown on Saturday, quality of our forwards. Maupay cannot be criticised for his work rate, his tenacity - he is truly a work horse who works absolutely hard on the pitch but he really isn't good enough for the league. The same goes for Connolly, a young prospect who I believe has the potential, but needs a loan to get confidence. Nonetheless, we are reliant on Welbeck, a player who has never been prolific. It's clear we need a 'terrier' type of player, bit nasty and loves to stick his leg out in the 6 yard box in hope of getting a flukey goal.

What is obvious to me, is that we try to walk the ball into the goal way too often, we over complicate our final 3rd. We're a tinpot mid-2010s Arsenal, all flare and no end product. We really just need to be more simple sometimes.

TL;DR

We sometimes really tactically naive

BUT

Potter has to deal with 2 key players (Lamptey and March, both wing-backs) being out until next season.
Potter also has to deal with a blunt strike force.

I agree with you but can anyone explain why we bothered to recall Karbownik from his loan only to play him in the U23s?
Surely a pacey full/wing back is what we have been missing since Lamptey got injured.

 

[Marshy]

Potter is doing everything right, we are creating chances playing good football and largely very good defensively.

Its his job to get us up the pitch and creating those chances, its exactly what Pep does at City then its down to the front men to score they just have far better forwards than we do.

We were not great against Sheff Utd but we still should not have lost that game again on the back of missing great chances.

This is not a Potter blind spot issue, its a taking chances issue.

 

[Stat Brother]

Potter is doing everything right, we are creating chances playing good football and largely very good defensively.

Its his job to get us up the pitch and creating those chances, its exactly what Pep does at City then its down to the front men to score they just have far better forwards than we do.

We were not great against Sheff Utd but we still should not have lost that game again on the back of missing great chances.

This is not a Potter blind spot issue, its a taking chances issue.

That's fine if we're talking about the odd 'shit happens' game, but we're not.

The Sheffield United game was just the latest in a long line of identical loses.


Q - How do you beat Brighton?

A - Simple.
Give them the ball until they make a mistake in front of their own goal.
Punish that mistake.
Then drop back and defend resolutely.

That's it, that's all there is to it to beat a GPott team.

Being that clear cut isn't just a squad/striker issue it's bordering on negligent.


If he doesn't sort it out his team will always have too many 'shit happens' games irrespective of who is missing the half chances, decent chances and occasional open goal (because the next man up is still going to miss chances).

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

That's fine if we're talking about the odd 'shit happens' game, but we're not.

The Sheffield United game was just the latest in a long line of identical loses.


Q - How do you beat Brighton?

A - Simple.
Give them the ball until they make a mistake in front of their own goal.
Punish that mistake.
Then drop back and defend resolutely.

That's it, that's all there is to it to beat a GPott team.

Being that clear cut isn't just a squad/striker issue it's bordering on negligent.


If he doesn't sort it out his team will always have too many 'shit happens' games irrespective of who is missing the half chances, decent chances and occasional open goal (because the next man up is still going to miss chances).

It is an existential question!

There were those that said Hughton played the only way a team with our quality could play - to the percentages of the game.

Potter plays the game that trusts the team to play in a high quality style, that inevitably has risks that have to be outweighed by the rewards.

Sadly, that the high quality style does look great, has created a host of chances and dominated many teams, but despite all the complexities of that approach, it's all for diddly-squat if you can't find the onion-bag for love nor money, and you serve the opposition up goal or good chance for a goal once or twice a game.

 

[vagabond]

Potter is doing everything right, we are creating chances playing good football and largely very good defensively.

Its his job to get us up the pitch and creating those chances, its exactly what Pep does at City then its down to the front men to score they just have far better forwards than we do.

We were not great against Sheff Utd but we still should not have lost that game again on the back of missing great chances.

This is not a Potter blind spot issue, its a taking chances issue.

[emoji106] [tweet]1386078167404847109[/tweet]

 

[andy1980]

[emoji106] [tweet]1386078167404847109[/tweet]

This is the thing with you. You just admitted Potter isn't perfect and he makes mistakes then gives a thumbs up to a post that says Potter is doing everything right.

 

[Stat Brother]

It is an existential question!

There were those that said Hughton played the only way a team with our quality could play - to the percentages of the game.

Potter plays the game that trusts the team to play in a high quality style, that inevitably has risks that have to be outweighed by the rewards.

Sadly, that the high quality style does look great, has created a host of chances and dominated many teams, but despite all the complexities of that approach, it's all for diddly-squat if you can't find the onion-bag for love nor money, and you serve the opposition up goal or good chance for a goal once or twice a game.

I genuinely think we will never find THE striker because such a player doesn't exist.

Sure there's a degree of 5 key goals and we wouldn't be having this conversation, which I why I'm very much 'Potter In', as the cracks are easily paperoverable.

But my whole contention and reason for the thread is when the next time this happens, and it will, there still won't be an answer as to how to win after conceding against a side happy with 1 goal.


I don't know what that answer is but I've had enough of 'just flood the box and not score'.

 

[Hamilton]

That's fine if we're talking about the odd 'shit happens' game, but we're not.

The Sheffield United game was just the latest in a long line of identical loses.


Q - How do you beat Brighton?

A - Simple.
Give them the ball until they make a mistake in front of their own goal.
Punish that mistake.
Then drop back and defend resolutely.

That's it, that's all there is to it to beat a GPott team.

Being that clear cut isn't just a squad/striker issue it's bordering on negligent.


If he doesn't sort it out his team will always have too many 'shit happens' games irrespective of who is missing the half chances, decent chances and occasional open goal (because the next man up is still going to miss chances).

Spot on.

This is what is so frustrating about Potter. I love the idea of possession based football, but while pretty, too often it leads to nothing. We manage possession in the opposition's half very well (that's why so many observers say that we are always in control) but we have very few touches inside the opposition's 12 yard box. It is why we are reduced to Bissouma shooting from range or crosses from Gros fired into a front two that features a pint-sized Maupay.

When Ali J came on for Gros, one thing he started to do was to attack the 12 yard box much more. This is what caused them some problems.

I also agree on the 3 at the back. I actually love it, but on occasion we need to be ready to mix it up and move to 4-4-2 and let the right back and left back attack. In all honesty, Dunk and Webster could have operated alone at the back in the second half on Saturday night. I'd have stuck Burn on and taken Moder off and then told Veltman and Burn to give us width. Instead we just swapped like for like in the middle of the park. We didn't change anything really.

Potter has changed the style, which is to be applauded, but he doesn't show much depth of thinking as a manager - yet.

 

[amexer]

Have not real all of thread but feel Potter has a way of playing and just sticks to it. Chelsea and Sheffield 2 different types of teams yet he has same set up for both games. Two things were certain at Sheffield. We would be on front foot most of game and there attacks would be based on long balls to Macgoldrick. Unlike Chelsea wing WBs never going to be needed much in defence so it was an opportunity to play Alli from the start. Dont think he will be able to start Alli against Leeds because we could well be under the cosh.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

I genuinely think we will never find THE striker because such a player doesn't exist.

Sure there's a degree of 5 key goals and we wouldn't be having this conversation, which I why I'm very much 'Potter In', as the cracks are easily paperoverable.

But my whole contention and reason for the thread is when the next time this happens, and it will, there still won't be an answer as to how to win after conceding against a side happy with 1 goal.


I don't know what that answer is but I've had enough of 'just flood the box and not score'.

My view is that it isn't necessarily a striker, but a player or couple of players that sends terror through the opposition when they get the ball.

One of the problems I think we have is that a team can stay in shape because we don't have any threats that outweigh the others. While I think we have some good quality players, if I put myself in the opposition manager's shoes, I don't think I'm identifying a player from our side we have to keep quiet or double up on. When Lamptey was fit - he was perhaps that player.

You made a very good point about Newcastle, it's not so much Maximan transforms Newcastle's own play, but he transforms the opposition's shape in dealing with him.

So I'm not convinced it is the big money striker, but it is a player that when they get the ball, there is panic in the opposing ranks. We can be very good with the ball, but I don't think we cause anywhere near enough panic at present.

 

[Icy Gull]

My view is that it isn't necessarily a striker, but a player or couple of players that sends terror through the opposition when they get the ball.

One of the problems I think we have is that a team can stay in shape because we don't have any threats that outweigh the others. While I think we have some good quality players, if I put myself in the opposition manager's shoes, I don't think I'm identifying a player from our side we have to keep quiet or double up on. When Lamptey was fit - he was perhaps that player.

You made a very good point about Newcastle, it's not so much Maximan transforms Newcastle's own play, but he transforms the opposition's shape in dealing with him.

So I'm not convinced it is the big money striker, but it is a player that when they get the ball, there is panic in the opposing ranks. We can be very good with the ball, but I don't think we cause anywhere near enough panic at present.

We certainly did when Lamptey was playing, massive miss over the last few months. I have my doubts that he’ll ever fulfil his potential as he’ll be hacked down with minimal protection from refs

 

[KZNSeagull]

Spot on.

This is what is so frustrating about Potter. I love the idea of possession based football, but while pretty, too often it leads to nothing. We manage possession in the opposition's half very well (that's why so many observers say that we are always in control) but we have very few touches inside the opposition's 12 yard box. It is why we are reduced to Bissouma shooting from range or crosses from Gros fired into a front two that features a pint-sized Maupay.

When Ali J came on for Gros, one thing he started to do was to attack the 12 yard box much more. This is what caused them some problems.

I also agree on the 3 at the back. I actually love it, but on occasion we need to be ready to mix it up and move to 4-4-2 and let the right back and left back attack. In all honesty, Dunk and Webster could have operated alone at the back in the second half on Saturday night. I'd have stuck Burn on and taken Moder off and then told Veltman and Burn to give us width. Instead we just swapped like for like in the middle of the park. We didn't change anything really.

Potter has changed the style, which is to be applauded, but he doesn't show much depth of thinking as a manager - yet.

I thought he did actually. Start of the second half he moved Trossard to play wide left and Moder moved into the middle. The Moder move caused them problems as both he and Biss were running at them. He then took Moder off, which I thought was a mistake, and at least should have swapped him for Ali Mac who also would have run at them. Sticking Ali J on wide right was a good move as that also caused them problems.

Maupay being pint sized isn't itself a problem. I think he has positioning issues as far too often he receives the ball either with his back to the goal in the box, or is too near the goal in the first place as per the miss from 2 yards. Murray would have been slightly further out moving onto the ball rather. The biggest disappointment for me player wise was Lallana in that game who should be taking those games by the scruff of the neck, but didn't.

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lens]

That's fine if we're talking about the odd 'shit happens' game, but we're not.

The Sheffield United game was just the latest in a long line of identical loses.


Q - How do you beat Brighton?

A - Simple.
Give them the ball until they make a mistake in front of their own goal.
Punish that mistake.
Then drop back and defend resolutely.

That's it, that's all there is to it to beat a GPott team.

Being that clear cut isn't just a squad/striker issue it's bordering on negligent.


If he doesn't sort it out his team will always have too many 'shit happens' games irrespective of who is missing the half chances, decent chances and occasional open goal (because the next man up is still going to miss chances).

That's all you have to do and yet, in 20 games this season, teams haven't been able to do that. Its the only way some of the teams can hope to win against us and any team. If we don't make the mistake on Saturday evening, we come away with a point probably. A striker, who offers us something different : pace or aerial threat or finishing (or any combination), will make a difference based on the season and allow a different approach more readily?

 

[Stat Brother]

When something hasn't worked over 500 times, in a short space of time, something has to change to improve the situation.

 

[macbeth]

I genuinely think we will never find THE striker because such a player doesn't exist.

Sure there's a degree of 5 key goals and we wouldn't be having this conversation, which I why I'm very much 'Potter In', as the cracks are easily paperoverable.

But my whole contention and reason for the thread is when the next time this happens, and it will, there still won't be an answer as to how to win after conceding against a side happy with 1 goal.


I don't know what that answer is but I've had enough of 'just flood the box and not score'.

I get that you think it isn't a simple as signing a striker, but when you're loading the box and trying to get it to a bunch of short-arses, none of whom are that competent in front of goal, surely that's p*ssing into the the wind slightly?

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

I thought he did actually. Start of the second half he moved Trossard to play wide left and Moder moved into the middle. The Moder move caused them problems as both he and Biss were running at them. He then took Moder off, which I thought was a mistake, and at least should have swapped him for Ali Mac who also would have run at them. Sticking Ali J on wide right was a good move as that also caused them problems.

Maupay being pint sized isn't itself a problem. I think he has positioning issues as far too often he receives the ball either with his back to the goal in the box, or is too near the goal in the first place as per the miss from 2 yards. Murray would have been slightly further out moving onto the ball rather. The biggest disappointment for me player wise was Lallana in that game who should be taking those games by the scruff of the neck, but didn't.

Agree with you KZN, [MENTION=225]Hamilton[/MENTION], Connolly came on and played on the left a front 3, Ali_J then played as a winger, not a wing back - he worked with Trossard on that side. It completely changed our angles of attack as we sought to exploit their left side which is why it suddenly appeared Ali_J was more dangerous than other players had been; yes because he was given cover and basically told to sit on their full back.

It might not have fit into a conventional, oh, he's switched from a 3-5-2 to a 4-4-2, but there was a change in shape a tactics. Didn't work as we now know, but don't think you can say we went like for like with substitions and tactics, that just didn't happen.