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MPs still don't get it do they



Bevendean Hillbilly

New member
Sep 4, 2006
12,805
Nestling in green nowhere
Perhaps he could invest some of the thousands he's fiddled on an upgraded ticket if he's that bothered about it.
 




Monsieur Le Plonk

Lethargy in motion
Apr 22, 2009
1,862
By a lake
Unless you are genuinely not guaranteed to get a seat on your daily commute then I cannot see any point in paying to go 1st class. Seats are the same and you get people like me wondering why you need to make the statement. Half of those sitting in 1st class these days seem to work for the railways and pay nothing anyway.
 


Uncle Spielberg

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
43,097
Lancing
:eek:
Expenses are supposed to be used to reimburse MP's for bills they incur in their line of work as an MP. They're NOT supposed to be used to protect investments, or make up interest or rent he would have been picking up on a property he owns. Its not some kind of compensation ATM for him to dip into, its OUR money !

Were going roun in circle here. We all agree the expenses system sucks and what I am saying is paying them a proper salary, ie £ 100k + and scrap the expenses system.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,019
...what I am saying is paying them a proper salary, ie £ 100k + and scrap the expenses system.

:lolol: yeah, nice idea and i agree in principle, but back in reality...
 


Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
31,269
I think what Winterton is getting at is he thinks the taxpayer should fund his first class rail travel so he can do a bit of work on the train in the morning, so he can bunk off early at 3pm or have a long lunch.

It would be interesting to follow him around to see how much work he actually does.

We're looking at a culture that is almost 19th century. I agree that he should get the standard fare paid to him and he can pay the upgrade himself if he chooses.
 




keaton

Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
Nov 18, 2004
9,972
The last time I went on the train to London during the day 2nd class was full of pikey's spivs, asylum seekers, teenage mums and Palace supporters. Can you imagine some elderly, well spoken suit trying to sit there and work. I don't think so.

How did you know the people on the train were seeking asylum or what their age and relationships to the child they were with were?

Also why would a pikey have their own spiv?
 


:eek:

Were going roun in circle here. We all agree the expenses system sucks and what I am saying is paying them a proper salary, ie £ 100k + and scrap the expenses system.

You can't scrap the expenses scheme, that is madness. If I get a train to go to a meeting, I am able to claim the cost back on expenses. That happens all across the private (and public) sector. It's no good saying to MPs "oh we'll pay you more but you'll have to pay all of your own expenses", it's a complete non-starter.
 


Hatterlovesbrighton

something clever
Jul 28, 2003
4,543
Not Luton! Thank God
:eek:

Were going roun in circle here. We all agree the expenses system sucks and what I am saying is paying them a proper salary, ie £ 100k + and scrap the expenses system.

I do share your sentiment, but if you did this it would be fine for a while but sooner or later an allowance would come in for something, followed by something else and you'd be right back to square 1 just with them being paid more but still claiming expenses.
 




Spiros

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2003
2,376
Too far from the sun
The last time I went on the train to London during the day 2nd class was full of pikey's spivs, asylum seekers, teenage mums and Palace supporters. Can you imagine some elderly, well spoken suit trying to sit there and work. I don't think so.
When I travelled back from London yesterday at about 3:30pm, the pikeys, spivs and other undesirables were the ONLY occupants of First Class. Most of those in Standard were old people snoozing or people in suits either working or reading. Like a bloody library it was. Some kid got on at Gatwick and had his PSP on too loud. He was SSSHHH'd into silence by some old boy.

Although my work provides me with a laptop I never work on the train. I also had to sign a non-disclosure agreement which effectively bars me from using it in public. Personally I wouldn't be very happy if someone was working on 'my file' on the train as it's easily viewable by whoever is sat next to you. I once sat next to someone all the way from Shoreham to Victoria who I didn't know, but they obviously worked in the same large corporation as me as I knew the person who's appraisal he was working on and then recognised the presentation template he was using for a new product.
 


tedebear

Legal Alien
NSC Patron
Jul 7, 2003
17,107
In my computer
:eek:

Were going roun in circle here. We all agree the expenses system sucks and what I am saying is paying them a proper salary, ie £ 100k + and scrap the expenses system.

It wouldn't work. The MP's whos constituency is oop north who has travel on a 4 hour long train would have to fund their own train tickets, as would those who live next door to Westminster? Who wins there....
 


Mellor 3 Ward 4

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2004
10,242
saaf of the water
I agree with US - a reasonable Salary for an MP is circa £150k.(Or one week of JT's wages)

But an expense system should then be put in place in line with 'the real world'

Anyone who lives within 2 hours of Westminster should have no 'second home allowance'

Personally, I would say the tax payer should pay for his travel - as Standard Class - if he wants to travel 1st Class he should pay the difference.
 




Uncle Spielberg

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
43,097
Lancing
I must admit I had a certain admiration for the old git. He put up a robust defence and took no shit. I like someone who stands their ground. The old duffer was good value all round in the inerview.
 


Uncle Spielberg

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
43,097
Lancing
He is a pc nightmare though " the people in 2nd class are different ". Cameron must have been choking in his tea.
 


drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
23,622
Burgess Hill
I think this hysterical 'story' just shows how out of control things have got on MPs expenses. First-class train travel isn't really the issue, there have been far greater abuses than that. It's just a feeding frenzy now, and all rational debate has long gone.

His real gaffe here is the line about 'a different sort of people'. Ludicrous, from an experienced politician. It just sounds pompous and superior, and invalidates any point he may have had.

Spot on, although it helps that it is Winterton who has already been exposed as abusing the expense system long before the Telegraph exposé.

I listened to the full interview this morning. The Irish presenter was being a cock. But then he is. He put words into the MP's mouth and distorted and misrepresented what he said. All the MP said was fair enough. He need to do work , important work and he does a lot in the 2-3 hrs on the train and needs the privacy and quiet of first class and was explaining he could not do the effectively in 2nd class with kids screaming, people mucking about etc. This was perfectly fair.

The presenter made it into a class issue and I thought highly of Winterton for his robust defence. If you listened to the full interview you would probably agree.

SHOCK HORROR - SPIELBERG DEFENDS TORY TOFF

I disagree if he didn't own the property he would have to rent somewhere which in London would probably be around £ 20k per annum for a modest property. So why should he be penalised for owning the property ?.

You are seriously having a laugh. I suspect from previous posts that you are self employed sole trader with no employees (I might be wrong). Imagine if you had an office junior whom you knew cycled to work 3 miles every day across Brighton. However she/he claimed for the taxi fare instead because if they didn't cycle then they would have to get a taxi (because of the type of people that travel on buses!) so you are not really missing out are you. I appreciate that this is likely to illicit comments that you would pay for commuting but that's not the point.

I think what Winterton is getting at is he thinks the taxpayer should fund his first class rail travel so he can do a bit of work on the train in the morning, so he can bunk off early at 3pm or have a long lunch.

It would be interesting to follow him around to see how much work he actually does.

We're looking at a culture that is almost 19th century. I agree that he should get the standard fare paid to him and he can pay the upgrade himself if he chooses.

I very much doubt that he even travels to London during the rush hour anyway. Parliament doesnt start till much later than normal office hours and finishes after most commuters have got home. Therefore he is only likely to share his 1st class section with rich bankers who have had a few shandies in All Bar One. At least whilst they are drunk, they would still have a bit of class!!!!
 




Uncle Spielberg

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
43,097
Lancing
Not really defending him but I do think he had a point. I am not going to join in the feigned collective shock of NSC that someone wants to conduct their business affairs in 1st class. I just had a grudging liking for the old boy for standing his ground.
 


pork pie

New member
Dec 27, 2008
6,053
Pork pie land.
BBC News - MP Winterton's anger at first class travel 'ban'

Different type of people in standard class.....yeah, the people who vote for you mate!

I must say that in some instances I agree with him. If an MP cannot be expected to travel First Class on a train like most executives of large companies, what is the point of having it? When it comes to air travel, then surely Business Class would be enough.

This is not red Russia you know, and if it was those in power would have the very best of everything!
 


Uncle Spielberg

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
43,097
Lancing
It seems the media and public want MP's to now be on a status as your average McDonalds employee. Ok they abused the system but I think he made valid points about doing his work in the quiet and privacy of 1st class.
 


Uncle Spielberg

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2003
43,097
Lancing
The old boy had the balls to say what 90% of all MP's of all parties probably think and stuck his head above the paraphet and was shot down for it. But I admire someone who has his own mind and does not bow down to the PC way now and say it how it is. He stood his ground and would not back down and for that I rather respect him regardless of the rights and wrongs.
 




The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
I must say that in some instances I agree with him. If an MP cannot be expected to travel First Class on a train like most executives of large companies, what is the point of having it? When it comes to air travel, then surely Business Class would be enough.

This is not red Russia you know, and if it was those in power would have the very best of everything!

In this context, he is a public servant there, paid for by you and me, to represent his constituency in Parliament, not to behave like an executive of a large company.

Well, he might be an executive as well, but to claim back through the public as though he were one is not appropriate.
 


drew

Drew
NSC Patron
Oct 3, 2006
23,622
Burgess Hill
The old boy had the balls to say what 90% of all MP's of all parties probably think and stuck his head above the paraphet and was shot down for it. But I admire someone who has his own mind and does not bow down to the PC way now and say it how it is. He stood his ground and would not back down and for that I rather respect him regardless of the rights and wrongs.

You never fail to disappoint with your posts.

The guy has abused the expense system and sees nothing wrong in what he has done. He sees himself superior to the vast majority of people by birth but he isn't. And to cap it all, he is standing down at the next election which means he is entitled to a bumper pay day in excess of his yearly salary. In fact, He and his wife are likely to get £200k between them in salary and a futher £2m in pension.
He's resigning because he is a crook and we are still paying for it.
 
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