"Move back to Britain - No way" - any other Albion ex-pats seen Telegraph article

[piersa]

Yes, clearly you cannot deny the problem exists. But NYC and the State of New York have some of the toughest gun controls in the US, so I have to admit I’ve never really seen it as an issue. If I was to wander around the Bronx at 2 in the morning it would be, but I don’t – if you go looking for trouble you will find it – that’s the same in every country. I find the many random acts of violence and aggression in the UK just as much of a concern as the US gun culture.

But as you say – it’s horses for courses

Fair enough. In your opinion, are the gun crimes much more prevalent in the lower socioeconomic echelons of the USA?.It is the death rate per capita that gets me. I cannot see a good argument for keeping an assault rifle in your home.

 

[piersa]

you couldnt miss the point more spectacularly if you tried. my point is its not that abnormal, globally, and you are a bit one eyed if you pick out the US for special treatment on this. yes we speak the same language, share a history, and are culturally dominated by them, but focusing on them because of that is to take a very narrow view of the world.

Their death rate per 100,000 by gun is massive compared to others. You are right, I do not understand your point.

 

[Simster]

discounting third world countries proves exactly my point regarding parochialism. Narrowing our comparisons down to countries we are extremely familiar with culturally, or are similar socio-economically, doesnt really make it a more valid proposition. South Africa and the Philippines and Finland (just to re use my examples) are still to degrees very sophisticated societies, and its not unreasonable that an expat might live there. why not include them?

Canada for all its similarities is still a different place from the US - just because its next door speaks English and has a shared history doesnt make it the ideal comparison. I would say the US and the Philippines is a better comparison, massive US cultural influence there that has led directly to their gun culture, and although more extreme, pronounced wealth disparity more akin to the US than Canada.

How on earth is US v Philippines a better comparison than US v Canada when it comes to weighing up the pros and cons to emmigrating from here?

How many people do you know who have emmigrated to the Phillippines compares to the number of people you know of emmigrating to the US? It's a pointless comparison. US v Canada is quite clearly far more relevant.

 

[US Seagull]

I'm afraid if you are watching Fox Soccer, you won't see ANY Palace games this season. You might want to check out NBC instead.

You won't be watching Fox Soccer at all for too much longer. It's becoming FXX now that Fox Sports 1 and 2 are launching.

On Topic: No, I don't seem myself coming back any time soon (barring family emergencies). Causal vandalism and an anti-social boozy culture are really off-putting.

 

[The Spanish]

How on earth is US v Philippines a better comparison than US v Canada when it comes to weighing up the pros and cons to emmigrating from here?

How many people do you know who have emmigrated to the Phillippines compares to the number of people you know of emmigrating to the US? It's a pointless comparison. US v Canada is quite clearly far more relevant.

its only more relevant on the assumption (probably correct, but still shows a certain cultural mindset) that people would emigrate to these places in more numbers. yes thats the case, but its my point about the worldview. the pavlovian responses to the US, or the US centric view of the world. i gave a few examples. there are expats everywhere. this is getting a little muddled, my point in a nutshell is we end up discussing the US, with tedious and hackneyed opinions and assumptions. No one apart from Dave has mentioned Saudi, or the rest of the Gulf, with their dismal human rights records and they are rammo with Brit expats.

its just the tedious cut out and paste opinions on, and focus on the US, imply a certain parochialism.

 

[piersa]

its only more relevant on the assumption (probably correct, but still shows a certain cultural mindset) that people would emigrate to these places in more numbers. yes thats the case, but its my point about the worldview. the pavlovian responses to the US, or the US centric view of the world. i gave a few examples. there are expats everywhere. this is getting a little muddled, my point in a nutshell is we end up discussing the US, with tedious and hackneyed opinions and assumptions. No one apart from Dave has mentioned Saudi, or the rest of the Gulf, with their dismal human rights records and they are rammo with Brit expats.

its just the tedious cut out and paste opinions on, and focus on the US, imply a certain parochialism.

Are you now suggesting that there is no problem with gun culture in the USA?

 

[The Spanish]

Are you now suggesting that there is no problem with gun culture in the USA?

no. where do i say that. look its not hard. you pipe up about american gun culture. i say this happens every time, and no one mentions other countries with gun problems. simster suggests we focus on the US as not many people are going to live as expats in other countries. my point is proved that everyones fixated on the US and that implies a certain narrow world view.

i said originally other countries have similarly cretinous gun cultures. so i would read into that that i agree its cretinous. wouldnt you. blimey this is hard.

 

[Simster]

its only more relevant on the assumption (probably correct, but still shows a certain cultural mindset) that people would emigrate to these places in more numbers. yes thats the case, but its my point about the worldview. the pavlovian responses to the US, or the US centric view of the world. i gave a few examples. there are expats everywhere. this is getting a little muddled, my point in a nutshell is we end up discussing the US, with tedious and hackneyed opinions and assumptions. No one apart from Dave has mentioned Saudi, or the rest of the Gulf, with their dismal human rights records and they are rammo with Brit expats.

its just the tedious cut out and paste opinions on, and focus on the US, imply a certain parochialism.

rammo with Brit expats? No it isn't. According to wikipedia, there are 26,000 in Saudi. Hardly "rammo". And lets be honest, most of them are there to make a fast buck, not to settle down.

Brits abroad according to wikipedia:
Hong Kong 3,750,000
Australia 1,300,000
Spain 761,000
United States 678,000
Canada 603,000
Ireland 291,000
New Zealand 215,000
South Africa 212,000
France 200,000
Germany 115,000

The only person getting muddled here seems to be you. 678k Brits in the US compared to 26k Brits in Saudi, 14k in the Phillipines or 2.6k in Finland really does prove the point that the comparisons being trotted out by you are utterly pointless.

However, I do agree that there are plenty on here with a hackneyed view of the USA, and that in the context of the rest of the world, their gun culture is probably unremarkable. But in comparison with countries a Brit might reasonably expect emigrate to long term, the problems caused by their gun culture is very notable. Note that it isn't the gun laws themselves that is such an issue, it is their gun culture that is the real problem.

simster suggests we focus on the US as not many people are going to live as expats in other countries. my point is proved that everyones fixated on the US and that implies a certain narrow world view.

I suggest we focus on the US, in the same way as the world focuses on their dollar as the de facto world currency. Any comparison with the US is entirely justified because it is the one world super power with a broadly similar culture and language.

 

[piersa]

no. where do i say that. look its not hard. you pipe up about american gun culture. i say this happens every time, and no one mentions other countries with gun problems. simster suggests we focus on the US as not many people are going to live as expats in other countries. my point is proved that everyones fixated on the US and that implies a certain narrow world view.

i said originally other countries have similarly cretinous gun cultures. so i would read into that that i agree its cretinous. wouldnt you. blimey this is hard.

Ok. I will make this simple for you. How many westernised countries have as many gun deaths per 100,000 that is equitable to the USA?

 

[daveinprague]

Gun crime seems to me to be more of a socio-economic crime...the more poor people you have, the more gun deaths you will get...the poorer the country, maybe the higher the death rate...there is a lot of poor in the USA, and that seems to be where most of the gun crime is...surprised that Holland is so low to be honest...If you remember the fuss about the two girls getting killed in Birmingham, or Nottingham a few years back...the same week, Den Haag had seven deaths by shootings....but it would seem the authorities are not bothered that much if its criminals getting killed.

 

[The Spanish]

Ok. I will make this simple for you. How many westernised countries have as many gun deaths per 100,000 that is equitable to the USA?

bwesternised countries. thank you. why not just, countries. there are loads have more.

 

[The Spanish]

rammo with Brit expats? No it isn't. According to wikipedia, there are 26,000 in Saudi. Hardly "rammo". And lets be honest, most of them are there to make a fast buck, not to settle down.

Brits abroad according to wikipedia:
Hong Kong 3,750,000
Australia 1,300,000
Spain 761,000
United States 678,000
Canada 603,000
Ireland 291,000
New Zealand 215,000
South Africa 212,000
France 200,000
Germany 115,000

The only person getting muddled here seems to be you. 678k Brits in the US compared to 26k Brits in Saudi, 14k in the Phillipines or 2.6k in Finland really does prove the point that the comparisons being trotted out by you are utterly pointless.

However, I do agree that there are plenty on here with a hackneyed view of the USA, and that in the context of the rest of the world, their gun culture is probably unremarkable. But in comparison with countries a Brit might reasonably expect emigrate to long term, the problems caused by their gun culture is very notable. Note that it isn't the gun laws themselves that is such an issue, it is their gun culture that is the real problem.



I suggest we focus on the US, in the same way as the world focuses on their dollar as the de facto world currency. Any comparison with the US is entirely justified because it is the one world super power with a broadly similar culture and language.

3.75 million brits in HKG. I dont think so. lets hope the rest of the figures are accurate.

8 of those countries are former British colonies or indeed part formerly part of the UK (if you assume by Ireland that means the Republic). Of the others Germany is less than a days drive, Spain an hour and a bit flying, and France you can swim to if you have enough goose fat and a packed lunch. Surely you can see my point on this. this is getting silly.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

Fair enough. In your opinion, are the gun crimes much more prevalent in the lower socioeconomic echelons of the USA?.It is the death rate per capita that gets me. I cannot see a good argument for keeping an assault rifle in your home.

Don’t really know enough about it to be honest. But I’ve had plenty of discussions / arguments with Americans about this topic. The standard reply is for them to quote the second amendment guaranteeing their right to bear arms. Trying to reason that times have changed since then and it is time for a re-think is met with blank looks. It’s interesting that this is one issue that seems to cut across party lines – both Democrats and Republicans seem to unite on this issue.

A lot of Americans thought that the death of children at the school in Connecticut last December was the last straw and Obama promised change. With the state of current American politics that will be pretty much impossible, but there is nothing to stop individual States enacting tougher gun laws, and that is happening together with the inevitable legal challenges from the NRA.

 

[piersa]

bwesternised countries. thank you. why not just, countries. there are loads have more.

Which westernised countries have worse ratios of gun deaths per capita?

 

[The Spanish]

Which westernised countries have worse ratios of gun deaths per capita?

what is a westernised country?

 

[US Seagull]

The standard reply is for them to quote the second amendment guaranteeing their right to bear arms. Trying to reason that times have changed since then and it is time for a re-think is met with blank looks. It’s interesting that this is one issue that seems to cut across party lines – both Democrats and Republicans seem to unite on this issue.

That is simply nonsense. There is much more willingness to address guns on the Democrats side than on the GOP side. Pretty much nobody is talking about an outright, across-the-board ban on all guns, if that's what you mean.

The problem is that the NRA has a lot more money than sense (but not paranoia).

 

[Simster]

3.75 million brits in HKG. I dont think so. lets hope the rest of the figures are accurate.

8 of those countries are former British colonies or indeed part formerly part of the UK (if you assume by Ireland that means the Republic). Of the others Germany is less than a days drive, Spain an hour and a bit flying, and France you can swim to if you have enough goose fat and a packed lunch. Surely you can see my point on this. this is getting silly.

Ah, your point. Your original point appeared to be that people were trotting out hackneyed ideas about the US and gun crime (which I agree with) and why weren't they doing the same with Finland and Saudi Arabia (which is a ridiculous thing to suggest). It's only "getting silly" because you'll do anything to avoid yielding the point that the US is a worthwhile comparison to most countries you'd ever want to emigrate to.

The fact is, the US has bigger gun issues than pretty much every other Western country (do you really need a definition of a western country?) but the fact that people trot out hackneyed views of the US and their gun culture magnifies the issue beyond reason.

 

[The Spanish]

Ah, your point. Your original point appeared to be that people were trotting out hackneyed ideas about the US and gun crime (which I agree with) and why weren't they doing the same with Finland and Saudi Arabia (which is a ridiculous thing to suggest). It's only "getting silly" because you'll do anything to avoid yielding the point that the US is a worthwhile comparison to most countries you'd ever want to emigrate to.

The fact is, the US has bigger gun issues than pretty much every other Western country (do you really need a definition of a western country?) but the fact that people trot out hackneyed views of the US and their gun culture magnifies the issue beyond reason.

i asked for a definition of westernised, not western. there are plenty of westernised or partially westernised non-western countries. i know the difference but i think piersa has got his terminology wrong. the philippines is very westernised, for example.

 

[piersa]

what is a westernised country?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=western countries

 

[The Spanish]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=western countries

thats a definition of western, not westernised. you said westernised.