MOUTH - The latest

[HampshireSeagulls]

If you have an issue with the stewards and the club are not dealing with it to your satisfaction, the you need to raise the stakes. The Ground Safety certificate is held by the local council. Write to them outlining your concerns over the ability of the stewards to do their job. Write to the Football Association outlining your concerns over the ability of the stewards to do their job.

If the club don't sort this shit out before the above two situations happen, then they could be fined or forced to prove that they have adequate training in place. It's a big step to take and it may be enough to force the club to either change the way things happen or to answer queries in a responsible manner. If the club cannot respond to a query with a correctly recorded incident report, then they are failing in their job and the Club Safety Officer and Senior Stewards should be removed from their posts for failing to keep the legal minimum documentation.

Just out of interest, and if the Club have the bollocks to respond, to what level are the Stewards trained? Who provides their training and who monitors their progression towards the standards? Which awarding body accredits them? If they are SIA trained and badged then the badges must legally be on view - with the license number showing. Has anyone managed to get a license number, because you can then raise a concern with the SIA relating to the standard of their training. If the club will not play ball on this, then force them.

 

[cyanide-sid]

I`ve been watching The Albion for 40 years and understand what makes a special crowd but I`ve had to move away from H block because of some of the tits ''Making an atmosphere'' at Withdean. I`m not saying this lad is one of them - I dont know him - but there are some annoying folk who take it upon themselves to be 'Comedian' at games and it does drive you mad after a while. Singing is one thing but there are more and more pricks at games nowadays then there was in the seventies and eighties IMO but maybe thats just because I`m getty grouchier in my old age.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Just out of interest, and if the Club have the bollocks to respond, to what level are the Stewards trained? Who provides their training and who monitors their progression towards the standards? Which awarding body accredits them? If they are SIA trained and badged then the badges must legally be on view - with the license number showing. Has anyone managed to get a license number, because you can then raise a concern with the SIA relating to the standard of their training. If the club will not play ball on this, then force them.

I can't remember the NVQA level ( 3 rings a bell ) but all Stewards have to pass NVQA exams within a certain time limit of starting. The exams and qualifications are managed by an external college and the club have their own trained Assessor Stewards who carry out spot checks.

Only the response stewards need an SIA badge and these do not need to be displayed during a match - they are a requirement of the club not an outside organisation. One reason for not having to display them is that stewards do not have to identify themselves as such - they have to have a unique identifier - in this case a steward number - so people can report them but they do not have to display their name ( in fact this certainly used to be discouraged ). My guess as to why the club want SIA accredited response stewards is that they come with a certain level of training already but the SIA regs do not cover the football ground. That said, anyone who's experienced the doorman in West Street would question how high the standard is anyway.

 

[CAPTAIN GREALISH]

took my sons friend for first game wednesday first thing he said why are we being watched by that little hitler he felt he was diong something wrong even before the game started . someone tell me why he cant stand up sing and shout for the team with out feeling that way . we will not fill falmer if the youngsters feel this way

 

[Black Dalek]

Shame on the club...They should review there policies.

he had a call yesterday from richard hebbard banning him for two games!

shame on the club....i'm disgusted

 

[Twizzle]

I heard someone swearing, on his own, at the top of his voice for that game - and if it was a manager he ought to get a touchline ban and a proper warning.
If it was this 'mouth' bloke, then he asked for it. It's one thing when loads of people are shouting and moaning (like we do), but not making a tit of yourself on yerself - that's just pigshit ignorant.

 

[Richy_Seagull]

I heard someone swearing, on his own, at the top of his voice for that game - and if it was a manager he ought to get a touchline ban and a proper warning.
If it was this 'mouth' bloke, then he asked for it. It's one thing when loads of people are shouting and moaning (like we do), but not making a tit of yourself on yerself - that's just pigshit ignorant.

ah so swearing when everyone else is doing it is fine, but when no-one else is, that is not allowed.

Great logic

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

I can't remember the NVQA level ( 3 rings a bell ) but all Stewards have to pass NVQA exams within a certain time limit of starting. The exams and qualifications are managed by an external college and the club have their own trained Assessor Stewards who carry out spot checks.

Only the response stewards need an SIA badge and these do not need to be displayed during a match - they are a requirement of the club not an outside organisation. One reason for not having to display them is that stewards do not have to identify themselves as such - they have to have a unique identifier - in this case a steward number - so people can report them but they do not have to display their name ( in fact this certainly used to be discouraged ). My guess as to why the club want SIA accredited response stewards is that they come with a certain level of training already but the SIA regs do not cover the football ground. That said, anyone who's experienced the doorman in West Street would question how high the standard is anyway.

If they are employed under the auspices of the SIA then the badges legally have to be displayed - the club cannot change that one. The only reason they use SIA licensed people as response squads is that they receive Physical Intervention training during the Door Supervisor course. If they are required to use an element of this training in their employment, then the badge must be shown - otherwise they are stewards and NOT security. If they have security on their jackets, they need the SIA badges to be on display. Being SIA does not give them additional powers, just means that they can use PI training or elements of restraint. Anyone who has carried out PI training with a company such as Maybo would know that the objective is to reduce the level of conflict, not increase it. If they are not following the tenets of their training, then again the awarding body should be informed. Maybo get very stroppy if Maybo accredited staff are not using the full range of training and have been known to cancel licenses.

If the stewards are assessed by external A1/V1 assessors, then the complaint needs to be made to the College that co-ordinates this, and also to the awarding authority. I imagine that the Stewards are NVQ2 and the Supervisors are NVQ3 in Spectator Safety, which means that the quality of the award can be challenged at College and awarding body level. You can ask for a formal External Validation to be carried out if you believe the College is not meeting the criteria of being an authorised training and assessing centre.

 

[Yorkshire-Seagull]

took my sons friend for first game wednesday first thing he said why are we being watched by that little hitler he felt he was diong something wrong even before the game started . someone tell me why he cant stand up sing and shout for the team with out feeling that way . we will not fill falmer if the youngsters feel this way

If your son's friend is calling people 'little hitlers', then he's not the sort of person we want at Falmer anyway.

 

[CAPTAIN GREALISH]

that was made as a joke or did that go over your head

 

[Westdene Seagull]

If they are employed under the auspices of the SIA ( they are not ) then the badges legally have to be displayed - the club cannot change that one. The only reason they use SIA licensed people as response squads is that they receive Physical Intervention training during the Door Supervisor course. If they are required to use an element of this training in their employment, then the badge must be shown ( PI training is carried out by the club as well as well as searching ) - otherwise they are stewards and NOT security ( they are indeed stewards ). If they have security on their jackets ( they don't ), they need the SIA badges to be on display. Being SIA does not give them additional powers, just means that they can use PI training or elements of restraint ( as they can in the ground because of the training given by the club ). Anyone who has carried out PI training with a company such as Maybo would know that the objective is to reduce the level of conflict, not increase it. If they are not following the tenets of their training, then again the awarding body should be informed. Maybo get very stroppy if Maybo accredited staff are not using the full range of training and have been known to cancel licenses.

I'm really not arguing here - I agree with you but they are not employed as SIA people the club just ask them to have that licence in the same way someone in a sales role might be expected to have a driving licence.

 

[The Oldman]

I said this earlier:
I agree with Lord B over this. I'm in G Block but I found the constant to and fro of the stewards and police between one end of the south stand to the other a real distraction on Saturday. There were huddles, finger pointing, police rushing up to talk to the stewards around the dug outs: it was difficult not to see their actions rather than watch the football.
I would like to see a minimal prescence on the running track during the match and a cessation of finger pointing. Let's face it the South Stand is not a hotbed of hooliganism and requires minimal stewarding.

That was after the Walsall game. At the next game, JPT on Tuesday, there were at times 18 Response/stewards persons standing in front of the South stand and watching and finger pointing. Given the size of the crowd was that really necessary? I did not observe any stewards in front of the North Stand watching the elite.

 

[Dave the OAP]

I did not observe any stewards in front of the North Stand watching the elite.

It is because they are all asleep in the North Stand.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

I'm really not arguing here - I agree with you but they are not employed as SIA people the club just ask them to have that licence in the same way someone in a sales role might be expected to have a driving licence.

Interesting - what qualification do they have in PI and restraint then? Someone at the club who saw his Dad do it once or a recognised Level 3 trainer? If they are not certified then they are on very dodgy ground if they manhandle someone! To even be able to deliver the course you need to jump through some horrendous hoops to keep the likes of Edexcel happy - and the delivery is subject to frequent review. I wonder how much conflict management training the response team has - or do they just use the SIA as an umbrella qualification? Interestingly enough, you cannot have a criminal record and an SIA badge - but you can have a criminal record and be an SIA trainer!

The laws that came in to prevent hooliganism have certainly been abused on many occasions, especially by those who have no formal training. The ability of the club to bar anybody for any reason is unfortunately completely correct, but it does not go a long way for club/supporter relations.

 

[Spun Cuppa]

Just a thought, but when was the last time someone was arrested/chucked out of Withdean? Just means there are lots of stewards/law standing about being paid to do not much tbh? In that situation it is human nature to start finding fault and justifying being there

Also, when Falmer is completed and with all this talk of zero tolerance, I wonder how many stewards there are going to be there to look after a 22 500 crowd?

 

[The Oldman]

It is because they are all asleep in the North Stand.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

At the next game, JPT on Tuesday, there were at times 18 Response/stewards persons standing in front of the South stand and watching and finger pointing. Given the size of the crowd was that really necessary? I did not observe any stewards in front of the North Stand watching the elite.

And there weren't any stewards in front of the North Stand.

That's half the problem. Because they don't ever see anything like it on their side of the ground, the Club's senior management and directors simply do not imagine how intrusive the stewarding of the South Stand can be. I'm certain that if North Stand stewarding was anything like what "customers" in the South Stand have to put up with, words would be said and the whole approach would change very quickly.

 

[Superseagull]

I've noticed the decreasing standards of stewarding at Withdean for some time. Good knows how they will cope at Falmer when they have proper crowds to deal with.

I see no reason why some of the 'elite' stewards feel the need to wear steel toe cap para boots, leather gloves, black jacket and combat trousers with pockets bulging. Got to say most of the orange jacket brigade are not a problem. Its just the 'top SIA boys' who seem to think they are some sort of paramilitary commando security team who want to provoke a problem so they can then act all Billy big bollocks in front of their mates with the knowledge the Police will back them up if anything kicks off.

When the Police decide its necessary to film and photo everyone in the stand is also very distracting, and only seems to wind people up who would otherwise be happy watching the football.

Bring back PC Beard!

 

[Twizzle]

ah so swearing when everyone else is doing it is fine, but when no-one else is, that is not allowed.

Great logic

Neither is "fine" is it!
Just that, if people are ALL shouting, one wanker who needs to turn the air blue ain't gonna get heard by everyone in the stadium - whereas banging out a load of effs and blinds on yer own in plain THICK.
Can you understand that, yet?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I heard someone swearing, on his own, at the top of his voice for that game - and if it was a manager he ought to get a touchline ban and a proper warning.
If it was this 'mouth' bloke, then he asked for it. It's one thing when loads of people are shouting and moaning (like we do), but not making a tit of yourself on yerself - that's just pigshit ignorant.

If they need to eject someone, then why don't they just get on with it? It's the thirty minutes of manoeuvering that pisses everyone off.