[Politics] More than 40,000 have crossed the channel this year.

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I voted for Brexit because I lived in the USA. I saw how unwieldy multiple states can be in terms of making decisions. Accountability is passed around like pass the parcel.

When an entity becomes that large, there is little thought for local society. There is a great deal of finger pointing.

Regulation becomes very difficult, and extraordinarily costly, because it’s hard to enforce in a consistent manner.

If we don’t perform as a country, government, local government, council, who do blame as part of Europe? It removes accountability.

I think this government is pretty shit but they are absolutely 100% accountable.

So you can accuse every Brexit voter of being an imbecile but I stand by my vote.

Don’t assume we’re all morons. I, for one, read many books about this and am pretty angry about your trite comments.

Well, you may be one of the people who gave no thought whatsoever about illegal (or legal) immigration when you voted leave. So I am sure you are delighted with all the freedoms we now have. Or perhaps, as you imply, it was simply some sort of philosophical issue for you. If so I see no reason why you are angry about my comments. The ones who should be andry are all the gammons who voted leave to 'take back control of our borders'. Angry at themselves for being mugs.

One of my best pals voted leave exactly for the same reasons as you - angry about red tape (he is a businessman) and blaming the lack of accountability. He now regards Brexit as a massive mistake and a load of old bollocks whipped up to save the neck of the tory party.

The numbers I noted in the first post say all you need to know. Rather than being a clunky unaccountable mess, the EU, with us in it, managed legal and illegal immigration well. Now we are fully independent the EU nations are no longer doing anything to stop the flow of people. And why should they? We are the once who flounced away from all the arrangements in pursuit of 'freedom'. That's something that does warrant anger.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This government closed down all the safe routes to claim asylum, and also,turned down, President Macron’s offer of a processing centre in France (Theresa May). It suits them to have an ‘enemy’ to distract voters from all the corruption and daylight robbery going on in Westminster.
Please do not copy the propaganda from the BBC website calling them illegal, because it isn’t illegal to seek asylum, and over 80% of claims, are successful after appeal.
Even Ukrainians cannot apply on line now.
As for overcrowding, 200,000 have died from covid alone, and are still dying, and Britain is desperate for workers. Brexit was never going to,stop immigrants when the Dublin Agreement was cancelled and we couldn’t send them back to France.
If anything, this government is wooing India for migrants. View attachment 153635

The fact that it is not illegal is an important point. But my main point was to draw attention to the fact that a sizeable number of people voted 'leave' so we could 'take back control of our borders'. I think this is a point worth ramming home. I will use the BBC as my first port of call for links'.

And yes, I agree with others who have posted on this thread, including you, that what has happened, because we left the EU and the way we did it, has made it even less likely that the issue can be resolved. The absurdity of it all has given rise to absurd solutions, such as bombing Albania. Just like dealing with the mafia is best done by bombing sicily.

So, my point is that when charlatans (such as 'Call me Dave') exploit the public's misunderstandings about how things are and how things work for their own purposes, nothing good will come of it. I hope that the next time some charlatan offers the nation greater freedom and sunny uplands, the nation turns its back.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Wokeworrier is another twatty right wing poster in disguise (some have suggested its the second account of 'potty'). I'll be putting him on ignore at some point.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

We get 40,000 a week, just saying…

Didn't Trump take back control of that for you?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Tooting Popular Front anyone?

Don't be a twat.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Thinking about @Thunder Bolt 's comment (that seeking asylum is not illegal) made me realise that, of course - it isn't. If it were, every person arriving would be arrested, prosecuted, fined/imprisoned, then returned back to France in a boat. Instead, we treat everyone as if they are legitimate refugees, until due process has resolved.

Except we don't do this properly.

First, we house them inhumanely (as reported in the news recently). Then we assign them to a hostel or some-such. My brother is employed to do this. Most of the young men in this category then immediately abscond.

Do the conservatives even know about any of this, the process they have set up? They like to use the word 'illegal'. So how come they are presiding over a process that does not categorize entry into the UK without going through passport control as illegal?

I had never taken much notice of all this till the numbers recently skyrocketed, because it was (till a few years ago) trivial, with low numbers, and something ranted about only by red faced gammon like Farrage. And during all this time the tories have used it for their own political purposes, whipping it up as an issue, yet doing not one thing to address it. Nothing. It is astonishing. It's like a real-life sequel to the Usual Suspects.

Anyway, time I got myself ready for the football.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It is somewhat Ironic (I used that word instead of the other 'I' word as I wouldn't want to be insulting ) that the very people who are getting most angry about the increase in migrants crossing the channel are the same who voted (in most cases twice) to stop all legal channels for people coming here forcing them to cross the channel.

You really couldn't make it up

 

[WATFORD zero]

I voted for Brexit because I lived in the USA. I saw how unwieldy multiple states can be in terms of making decisions. Accountability is passed around like pass the parcel.

When an entity becomes that large, there is little thought for local society. There is a great deal of finger pointing.

Regulation becomes very difficult, and extraordinarily costly, because it’s hard to enforce in a consistent manner.

If we don’t perform as a country, government, local government, council, who do blame as part of Europe? It removes accountability.

I think this government is pretty shit but they are absolutely 100% accountable.

So you can accuse every Brexit voter of being an imbecile but I stand by my vote.

Don’t assume we’re all morons. I, for one, read many books about this and am pretty angry about your trite comments.

That's fair enough and if you read a lot about it, then the increase in channel migration, raging inflation, the longest recession on record, the problem with the unimplementable Northern Ireland Protocol, the inability to implement JRM's 'act of self harm' Import controls, the shortages of staff in the NHS, Care sector, Hospitality, Logistics etc etc (I could go on) will have been completely expected and you will have got exactly what you voted for

 

[Thunder Bolt]

We get 40,000 a week, just saying…

Says the Brit living in someone else’s land!

 

[dazzer6666]

This government closed down all the safe routes to claim asylum, and also,turned down, President Macron’s offer of a processing centre in France (Theresa May). It suits them to have an ‘enemy’ to distract voters from all the corruption and daylight robbery going on in Westminster.
Please do not copy the propaganda from the BBC website calling them illegal, because it isn’t illegal to seek asylum, and over 80% of claims, are successful after appeal.
Even Ukrainians cannot apply on line now.
As for overcrowding, 200,000 have died from covid alone, and are still dying, and Britain is desperate for workers. Brexit was never going to,stop immigrants when the Dublin Agreement was cancelled and we couldn’t send them back to France.
If anything, this government is wooing India for migrants. View attachment 153635

Absolute staffing crisis in many sectors. The organisation I work for as a voluntary trustee (severely disabled children/young adults) has had to resort to setting up an international recruitment process to get people in (mostly from India so far) to try to plug the gaps.

 

[Binney on acid]

Harry, you're being a little impatient here. Give it another couple of hundred years and we'll all begin to see the benefits of regaining control. Wait for those trading relationships with third world dictatorships to kick in. What could possibly go wrong ?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Wokeworrier is another twatty right wing poster in disguise (some have suggested its the second account of 'potty'). I'll be putting him on ignore at some point.

Now I would have guessed at one of @Steve Foster or his idiot son's accounts, now some of their others have been stopped

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

I voted for Brexit because I lived in the USA. I saw how unwieldy multiple states can be in terms of making decisions. Accountability is passed around like pass the parcel.

When an entity becomes that large, there is little thought for local society. There is a great deal of finger pointing.

Regulation becomes very difficult, and extraordinarily costly, because it’s hard to enforce in a consistent manner.

If we don’t perform as a country, government, local government, council, who do blame as part of Europe? It removes accountability.

I think this government is pretty shit but they are absolutely 100% accountable.

So you can accuse every Brexit voter of being an imbecile but I stand by my vote.

Don’t assume we’re all morons. I, for one, read many books about this and am pretty angry about your trite comments.

I hated the clean seas around the UK.
I hated our clean rivers.
I hated funding being given to various schemes.
I hated poorer parts being given cash for rejuvenation.
I hated visa free travel.
I hated EU minimum standards.
I hated animal welfare.
I hated protection to my rights.

The EU didn't make all of our rules/laws.
Our voted members of both parliaments were always to be held accountable.

Despite what you have read, the EU was not the USA.

 

[beorhthelm]

Thinking about @Thunder Bolt 's comment (that seeking asylum is not illegal) made me realise that, of course - it isn't. If it were, every person arriving would be arrested, prosecuted, fined/imprisoned, then returned back to France in a boat. Instead, we treat everyone as if they are legitimate refugees, until due process has resolved.

Except we don't do this properly.

First, we house them inhumanely (as reported in the news recently). Then we assign them to a hostel or some-such. My brother is employed to do this. Most of the young men in this category then immediately abscond.

Do the conservatives even know about any of this, the process they have set up? They like to use the word 'illegal'. So how come they are presiding over a process that does not categorize entry into the UK without going through passport control as illegal?

I had never taken much notice of all this till the numbers recently skyrocketed, because it was (till a few years ago) trivial, with low numbers, and something ranted about only by red faced gammon like Farrage. And during all this time the tories have used it for their own political purposes, whipping it up as an issue, yet doing not one thing to address it. Nothing. It is astonishing. It's like a real-life sequel to the Usual Suspects.

Anyway, time I got myself ready for the football.

ees complicated isnt it? the act of crossing a border without passport is illegal, while claiming asylum once here is legal. this illegal/legal status is mutable, they change from one to the other. then once they abscond they change again. we dont return them to France because they aren't French or have any more right to be there, no legal basis to do so.

many other countries have this way of only allowing asylum claims once in the country (or at least the border, they dont want to move the problem of managing them to embassies and consulates around the world, flying or coaching claimants in. thats obviously something that needs to change, at least for the channel crossings we could have some reception centre in France (if they allow it) and charter ferries to bring them over. good luck putting that in a manifesto, that wouldnt go down well, beyond the Farrage followers.

 

[WATFORD zero]

ees complicated isnt it? the act of crossing a border without passport is illegal, while claiming asylum once here is legal. this illegal/legal status is mutable, they change from one to the other. then once they abscond they change again. we dont return them to France because they aren't French or have any more right to be there, no legal basis to do so.

many other countries have this way of only allowing asylum claims once in the country (or at least the border, they dont want to move the problem of managing them to embassies and consulates around the world, flying or coaching claimants in. thats obviously something that needs to change, at least for the channel crossings we could have some reception centre in France (if they allow it) and charter ferries to bring them over. good luck putting that in a manifesto, that wouldnt go down well, beyond the Farrage followers.

The legalities may be, but the process has never been complicated has it ?

This Government has closed every scheme for claiming Asylum forcing anyone who wants to claim to go to people smugglers and get put in boats to cross the English Channel.

For decades we have always had asylum schemes where people could claim asylum, whilst abroad, get their claims processed and get allowed in if their claim was valid. I really can't imagine why this Government thought it would be a good idea to close all of these schemes and force people onto boats, can you

 

[beorhthelm]

The legalities may be, but the process has never been complicated has it ?

This Government has closed every scheme for claiming Asylum forcing anyone who wants to claim to go to people smugglers and get put in boats to cross the English Channel.

For decades we have always had asylum schemes where people could claim asylum, whilst abroad, get their claims processed and get allowed in if their claim was valid. I really can't imagine why this Government thought it would be a good idea to close all of these schemes and force people onto boats, can you

when did this change then? as far as i could find they never could for the UK or most other countries. hence we dont see migrants camped at the embassy of the first safe country, they need to get to intended destination to claim asylum.

 

[WATFORD zero]

when did this change then? as far as i could find they never could for the UK or most other countries. hence we dont see migrants camped at the embassy of the first safe country, they need to get to intended destination to claim asylum.

Scrapped 11 years ago

As a signatory to the 1951 Refugee Convention, the UK fully considers all asylum applications lodged in the UK. However, the UK’s international obligations under the Convention do not extend to the consideration of asylum applications lodged abroad and there is no provision in our Immigration Rules for someone abroad to be given permission to travel to the UK to seek asylum. The policy guidance on the discretionary referral to the UK Border Agency of applications for asylum by individuals in a third country who have not been recognised as refugees by another country or by the UNHCR under its mandate, has been withdrawn. No applications will be considered by a UK visa-issuing post or by the UK Border Agency pending a review of the policy and guidance.

20 September 2011

https://freemovement.org.uk/does-the-uk-consider-asylum-applications-made-from-abroad/

Although we were still part of Dublin II covering asylum within the the EU until nearly 2 years ago when we ceased to operate under EU rules.

 

[Wokeworrier]

Not at all, I think it's bloody marvelous having yet another thread about channel crossings where all the same people can make exactly the same misinformed points (all safe routes to the UK closed, Brexit brexit brexit etc).

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9630/

 

[beorhthelm]

Scrapped 11 years ago

As a signatory to the 1951 Refugee Convention, the UK fully considers all asylum applications lodged in the UK. However, the UK’s international obligations under the Convention do not extend to the consideration of asylum applications lodged abroad and there is no provision in our Immigration Rules for someone abroad to be given permission to travel to the UK to seek asylum. The policy guidance on the discretionary referral to the UK Border Agency of applications for asylum by individuals in a third country who have not been recognised as refugees by another country or by the UNHCR under its mandate, has been withdrawn. No applications will be considered by a UK visa-issuing post or by the UK Border Agency pending a review of the policy and guidance.

20 September 2011

https://freemovement.org.uk/does-the-uk-consider-asylum-applications-made-from-abroad/

Although we were still part of Dublin II covering asylum within the the EU until nearly 2 years ago when we ceased to operate under EU rules.

useful reference, unclear what changed, no legislation around then. why were there camps in Calais back in 2000 for migrants looking to cross?

edit: re-reading that, note the "guidance on discretionary referral" of applications was withdrawn. so maybe nothing changed in law.

 

[WATFORD zero]

useful reference, unclear what changed, no legislation around then. why were there camps in Calais back in 2000 for migrants looking to cross?

I would think that people who were turned down for Asylum would still try the boat crossing (and would still even if we re-opened proper schemes), but it explains why the numbers have been constantly increasing since and then gone exponential over the last few years as all people with valid claims now have to use the same people smuggling gangs.

The Government that has done all this and caused these issues has either been completely incompetent or it was intentional culture war stuff. Unfortunately with this lot, it's probably both

Anyway, time to start practicing Boooooing