[Film] More of the Rings

[portlock seagull]

I'm very much of the opinion that if magic people can fall from the sky then people's skin tones can certainly vary even within a small nomadic tribe, that seems to have cohabited for generations (because: magic). I don't doubt Mr Tolkien pictured things differently when he was writing his books, not that he was a racist more because a harmonious, mixed race society would have seemed so impossibly out of reach in his lifetime. But this particular change doesn't affect the story lines since I don't think any of the conflict and drama is based on skin colour so why not mix it up?

On the other hand making these simple, little halfling characters speak like leprechauns is a bit jarring and breaks the suspension of disbelief for me. I keep expecting them to find some lucky charms or potatoes. At least they haven't built Teletubby land this time.

Interesting that people presume racism. From the stand point of characters got to have an accent, why not Irish? If every character has English (queens) then there’s a furore about that too. You just can’t win. Any use of Irish, orientalist, African, hispanic…the list goes on, and it’s immediately branded racist. This before the actors get ridiculed for their attempts at doing an accent (Dick Van Dyke, like!)

Who’d be a film provider eh? The shite they must contend with these days, the barrage of incidentals people find to criticise, it’s a wonder anything gets made!

 

[sparkie]

I'm enjoying this more and more.

It's disappointing, mind, that they seem to have messed around with the Second Age timeline significantly with the featured Numenor rulers being >1500 years too early relative to the forging of the rings.

Hey ho, reasons, I suppose.

They are still trying to make us think Gandalf is mystery meteor man. I hope not.

I suspect that Halbrand is Sauron rather than the fellow in charge of the orcs - that could well be the Mouth of Sauron or the Witch King maybe.

All in all though, most enjoyable.

 

[Crawley Dingo]

I am so far feeling wholly underwhelmed by this series..... and in parallel, I am also finding that three episodes in, the prequel Game of Thrones series currently showing, is also slow, confused and lacking in polish and style.

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Personally I struggled through the first 3 films and that was it, I find the "loyal fans" are a bunch of petty over zelous nutbars moaning if a hat or cape is the wrong colour or a character the wrong age or other thing "that wasn't in the books". Same goes for Star Wars, Star Trek etc, add forced politics and you soon have a raging dumpster fire.

I'm struggling through the first episode of House of Dragons which is a mixture of gore and boring. Its my opinion that the wrong people have been employed all the way through from writers, actors, critics and PR/marketing. Something has seriously gone wrong with the recruitment industry especially in the media.

 

[Kosh]

I think it’s great - I’m loving it.

 

[Whoislloydy]

Stuck on episode 3, really not impressed tbh. Especially after all the hype. 90% of the casting is awful.

 

[sparkie]

Well, all in all that was a very enjoyable series.

The Morder origin and the forging of the 3 elven rings were decent story landmarks.

It's a shame they had to mess with the synchronisation between Numenor and elven timelines, but they had to do this to avoid 100 year time jumps I suppose.

Slightly concerned that they are hinting that Meteor Man is Gandalf. It's not set in stone yet and I hope that is revealed as misdirection in series 2.

 

[brighton_tom]

First episode was veeeeeery slow, but since then its been great. Loved this series.

 

[Acker79]

I watched the fist five episodes a couple of weekends ago, and just got finished with the last three.

I think my only complaint was that end credit song version of the one ring to bind them verse. I enjoyed the whole series.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Well, all in all that was a very enjoyable series.

The Morder origin and the forging of the 3 elven rings were decent story landmarks.

It's a shame they had to mess with the synchronisation between Numenor and elven timelines, but they had to do this to avoid 100 year time jumps I suppose.

Slightly concerned that they are hinting that Meteor Man is Gandalf. It's not set in stone yet and I hope that is revealed as misdirection in series 2.

It can only be Gandalf or Saroman can’t it? Left us nicely guessing.

I’ve enjoyed it, but slow in parts but reached a nice finale.

 

[B-right-on]

Not a huge LOTR fan but the Mrs is so I've seen all the films a couple of times.
Thought this series was well done and really high quality all around. No idea on its accuracy to JRRTs works, but as a TV series I thought it was well watchable.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

It can only be Gandalf or Saroman can’t it? Left us nicely guessing.

I’ve enjoyed it, but slow in parts but reached a nice finale.

I think he's almost certainly one of the Blue wizards who were:

1. In ME in the 2nd age
2. Went East

 

[sparkie]

It can only be Gandalf or Saroman can’t it? Left us nicely guessing.

I’ve enjoyed it, but slow in parts but reached a nice finale.

It's truer to Tolkien if it is one of the 2 Blue Wizards.

Meteor Man used a Gandalf phrase so that's the big hint.

But his memory is off. This could be misdirection. He could say it again in Series 2... ...and add a "as my old mate (Gandalf) likes to say".

But I actually think the writers want it to be Gandalf. Maybe testing the reaction before totally committing at this stage.

 

[Acker79]

It's truer to Tolkien if it is one of the 2 Blue Wizards.

Meteor Man used a Gandalf phrase so that's the big hint.

But his memory is off. This could be misdirection. He could say it again in Series 2... ...and add a "as my old mate (Gandalf) likes to say".

But I actually think the writers want it to be Gandalf. Maybe testing the reaction before totally committing at this stage.

I've only ever read the main story or the hobbit and lord of the rings, never the appendices or other books. When we meet Gandalf, he is Gandalf the Grey, he becomes Gandalf the White after a little scuffle with the Balrog.

Is it possible it could be Gandalf the Blue?

I mean, given the liberties they have taken with timelines and the like, I suppose in the strictest terms it's something they could do, but I mean to ask is there any thing like that in the lore?

 

[HastingsSeagull]

I really liked the 3 LoTRs films and whilst like any movie they took out large sections and merged minor characters or built up others I thought they had a good balance to these kinds of things and did so well. Especially with the extended versions. I hoped other parts would be included, but they got the pacing judged fairly well and such epic tomes needed streamlining for non-fans. They get a very strong 9.5 out of 10 anyway.

The hobbit would have been a decent single film but they really messed up every addition that wasn’t vaguely linked to the book and it was an incredibly hard watch getting a generous 3/10 overall if I try and focus on the good parts. Slimming something down is normal for TV/Film but lately any fantasy additions (see GoTs too) seem to be done by complete imbeciles and I don’t know what the world of Hollywood writers has come too. It gets worse and worse when not from source material. It’s not the fact that it’s new stuff, more the quality of the writing, story and dialogue.

This series seems to have taken the bad aspects of the hobbit and run with those. I’m only 5 or 6 episodes in as gave up watching weekly until we could blitz them all in one go. I would struggle to round my score up to 0.1/10 currently but am determined to finish it as like the world and setting general so it’s more out of curiosity than anything.

There is a separate ‘woke’ like issue too and I loved the likes of Star Trek for taking these things and introducing them to the screens for often the first time. It would make a big impact when done with the right balance and I like the fact TV generally has increased how often characters have different sexualities, ethnicities and the prominence of female leads and figures ‘in power’ from those early days. Most shows do it very well now. We don’t need every single police captain to be black and every other cop white but most shows have a good mixture with slight favour which is positive. That said shows like the more recent Trek and RoP don’t seem to make 50% of characters or a ‘setting appropriate’ amount like this but rather shove every straight white male as a simp or imbecile or evil and every other character being given some label. There is a middle ground with lots of positive reinforcement but not complete washing of every minor and major character. Things like a dwarf not having a beard are 100x more important than race as is a Disney character’s hair shade, but when looking at every character in a show there’s no need for it to be complete blanketing. Have a king, queen, captain, lead, hero but not every one and equally have some ‘representation’ in the non-positive roles too without fearing an outcry! When Russians couldn’t be the bad guys anymore it was always Brits for a while as we wouldn’t complain. Most of ‘woke’ TV does it well and certain marvel movies do it in a bit of an odd way……. But the latest Trek and RoP feel a bit ‘off’ to me as taking a positive and corrupting it, and instead of showing things as a positive contrast instead just make it a meaningless wash.

 

[sparkie]

I've only ever read the main story or the hobbit and lord of the rings, never the appendices or other books. When we meet Gandalf, he is Gandalf the Grey, he becomes Gandalf the White after a little scuffle with the Balrog.

Is it possible it could be Gandalf the Blue?

I mean, given the liberties they have taken with timelines and the like, I suppose in the strictest terms it's something they could do, but I mean to ask is there any thing like that in the lore?

He could be !

It would be a change to the the time line though as Gandalf should be a 3rd Age character not a 2nd Age one.

I'm starting to think it doesn't matter too much - afterall Gandalf was alive in the 2nd Age, just not in Middle Earth. I think the writers want it to be Gandalf as he is a familiar character from the films. That Balrog under Khazad-dum also shouldn't be discovered until the 3rd Age but it's looking very likely they want to introduce it early. Again it was actually there in the 2nd Age, just not featured.

Back to Blue Wizards - I'm expecting Gandalf the Meteor Man will actually meet them in Series 2. They could even make them ( or one of them ) female, which would no doubt cause a bit of a meltdown in part of the fandom.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I really liked the 3 LoTRs films and whilst like any movie they took out large sections and merged minor characters or built up others I thought they had a good balance to these kinds of things and did so well. Especially with the extended versions. I hoped other parts would be included, but they got the pacing judged fairly well and such epic tomes needed streamlining for non-fans. They get a very strong 9.5 out of 10 anyway.

The hobbit would have been a decent single film but they really messed up every addition that wasn’t vaguely linked to the book and it was an incredibly hard watch getting a generous 3/10 overall if I try and focus on the good parts. Slimming something down is normal for TV/Film but lately any fantasy additions (see GoTs too) seem to be done by complete imbeciles and I don’t know what the world of Hollywood writers has come too. It gets worse and worse when not from source material. It’s not the fact that it’s new stuff, more the quality of the writing, story and dialogue.

This series seems to have taken the bad aspects of the hobbit and run with those. I’m only 5 or 6 episodes in as gave up watching weekly until we could blitz them all in one go. I would struggle to round my score up to 0.1/10 currently but am determined to finish it as like the world and setting general so it’s more out of curiosity than anything.

There is a separate ‘woke’ like issue too and I loved the likes of Star Trek for taking these things and introducing them to the screens for often the first time. It would make a big impact when done with the right balance and I like the fact TV generally has increased how often characters have different sexualities, ethnicities and the prominence of female leads and figures ‘in power’ from those early days. Most shows do it very well now. We don’t need every single police captain to be black and every other cop white but most shows have a good mixture with slight favour which is positive. That said shows like the more recent Trek and RoP don’t seem to make 50% of characters or a ‘setting appropriate’ amount like this but rather shove every straight white male as a simp or imbecile or evil and every other character being given some label. There is a middle ground with lots of positive reinforcement but not complete washing of every minor and major character. Things like a dwarf not having a beard are 100x more important than race as is a Disney character’s hair shade, but when looking at every character in a show there’s no need for it to be complete blanketing. Have a king, queen, captain, lead, hero but not every one and equally have some ‘representation’ in the non-positive roles too without fearing an outcry! When Russians couldn’t be the bad guys anymore it was always Brits for a while as we wouldn’t complain. Most of ‘woke’ TV does it well and certain marvel movies do it in a bit of an odd way……. But the latest Trek and RoP feel a bit ‘off’ to me as taking a positive and corrupting it, and instead of showing things as a positive contrast instead just make it a meaningless wash.

These are all things I agree with. That was nicely balanced. I gave up watching the new Star Trek series as it was exactly as you described. It is a travesty that these LOTR rip-offs are exactly that especially as I loved the books, why oh why can't the scriptwriters at least pay some attention to what he actually wrote.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

These are all things I agree with. That was nicely balanced. I gave up watching the new Star Trek series as it was exactly as you described. It is a travesty that these LOTR rip-offs are exactly that especially as I loved the books, why oh why can't the scriptwriters at least pay some attention to what he actually wrote.

Probably because these new series are purely for entertainment purposes and are aimed, primarily, at those that haven’t read Tolkien’s works. If it encourages them to read the books, that can’t be a bad thing.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Probably because these new series are purely for entertainment purposes and are aimed, primarily, at those that haven’t read Tolkien’s works. If it encourages them to read the books, that can’t be a bad thing.

My point is that whilst corners will be cut and that's absolutely necessary and understandable, why change major characters into something they are not and never were in the originals? Tolkien's stories contain enough plot and description and history for there to be no need for major departures. I am all for encouraging new fans but at the same time why alienate millions who grew up loving the books and continued to read them through the generations?

 

[JBizzle]

I really enjoyed the whole series, and I'm a LOTR fan. If you don't enjoy it, fine, but as someone who read the books a long time ago, watching with someone who has seen the films only, my wife and I really enjoyed the whole series. I don't find any of the changes particularly distracting (remember the chaos on the removal of Tom Bombadil from the films?) and the cinematography is fantastic. Personally, I can't wait for series 2.

As an aside, off the back of this, I watched the LOTR films again and wow, from a cinematic perspective they have dated badly in my opinion. The acting is still pretty good, and I'd go to war for Aragorn, but good God every scene is punctuated by the most over the top usage of slow motion. It's so distractingly obvious that there are points (like in film 1 when Frodo wakes up in Rivendell) where he wakes up, see Gandalf (slow-mo emotion reveal), then there's a normal chat (slow-mo when Sam and the other hobbits come in), normal again whilst they chat, (slow-mo when he sees Bilbo on a bench) normal for a chat. It's so painfully obvious that it's:

Action & exposition: normal speed;
Emotion: slow-motion.

 

[beorhthelm]

the beorhthelm abode enjoyed it. rather slow and over drawn out first half of the series, plot holes galore if you want to look for them, but most epics do. from what i gather various characters changed between Tolkien writings. let it wash over.