[Albion] Moises Caicedo - New contract signed until summer 2027 with 1 year extra option.

[dazzer6666]

Completely agree. So many people just can't or won't see it though. Until we actually do start selling players for big money, we will be seen as 'League 1' by clubs trying to buy our players, and they'll bid accordingly.

It's only now though that we're starting to see the sort of value our key assets could realise. I completely get why we didn't sell White to Leeds for example - as well as needing him this season we'll get far more than £25m if his development continues as it is, and it's only this season that Biss is starting to be talked about amongst the 'top 6'. I don't think its something we're averse to doing, we're just waiting for the right time. Fully expect one of our best players to go for £40-50m in the summer (and providing we've got a replacement lined up it'll be the right thing to do)

 

[Wellesley]

Exactly.

We go through this every summer here. I don’t know if there’s still inferiority complex with our fan base, but there’s always people talking up our best players being sold.

Even with Ben White people here wanted to immediately accept Leeds first bid. It’s like guys, we’re not League One anymore.

You say we go to through this ever summer here, yet your join date is May 2019. It certainly feels like you've been on here for ever, but what did you call yourself before?

 

[GT49er]

I don't think we would be forced to sell Biss.
But it would be a good bit of business if we could get a large fee for him. Especially if we have a ready replacement.
We have spent many millions of TBs cash and it would be nice to see some returns for him.

Maybe the club will decide if he is ready before agreeing to let Biss move to the next level.

It's not a question of being forced to sell; it's about sustainability.

Sell and buy, sell and buy, sell and buy is sustainable.
Buy and loan out, buy and give away, buy and run down the contract, is not.

 

[chaileyjem]

It's only now though that we're starting to see the sort of value our key assets could realise. I completely get why we didn't sell White to Leeds for example - as well as needing him this season we'll get far more than £25m if his development continues as it is, and it's only this season that Biss is starting to be talked about amongst the 'top 6'. I don't think its something we're averse to doing, we're just waiting for the right time. Fully expect one of our best players to go for £40-50m in the summer (and providing we've got a replacement lined up it'll be the right thing to do)

Agreed. Look also at Mac Allister. He's been carefully managed and perhaps only now starting to show why he's an Argentinian international but still only 22.
Adam Webster is this season also starting to show why we paid £20m for him.

And the conveyor belt continues. Haydon Roberts is 18 and is a regular in L1 and we've half a dozen other loanees in the L1 and Champ. Few of them, if any will end up being Ben White standard - but it only takes 1-2 for this clever strategy - to bear fruit.

 

[blue-shifted]

It's only now though that we're starting to see the sort of value our key assets could realise. I completely get why we didn't sell White to Leeds for example - as well as needing him this season we'll get far more than £25m if his development continues as it is, and it's only this season that Biss is starting to be talked about amongst the 'top 6'. I don't think its something we're averse to doing, we're just waiting for the right time. Fully expect one of our best players to go for £40-50m in the summer (and providing we've got a replacement lined up it'll be the right thing to do)

But this is the problem, we recruit on potential and most of the players we buy are a year or two off from being to significantly contribute to the first team (such as the subject of this thread).

The whole argument for selling a £50m player and buying a £20m player to replace him seems like the £20m is going to be able to come straight in and do the same job.

I'm not convinced.

Recruitment is a highly hit and miss process. Leicester have replaced like for like remarkably well. Southampton, to a degree, (but they had a couple of seasons where they only just survived and they seem to have chanced upon a world class manager). The point is this ability to sell and replace with the same quality, but for cheaper, isn't normal and you can't rely on us being able to replicate it.

Our recruitment is decent, if you ask me, but we're miles off of Leicester's level.

To me, it seems a crazy risk to sell our best players when we've barely got our heads above water. We would need to be VERY confident what we've got coming in can immediately and directly replace what we've sold.

 

[dazzer6666]

But this is the problem, we recruit on potential and most of the players we buy are a year or two off from being to significantly contribute to the first team (such as the subject of this thread).

The whole argument for selling a £50m player and buying a £20m player to replace him seems like the £20m is going to be able to come straight in and do the same job.

I'm not convinced.

Recruitment is a highly hit and miss process. Leicester have replaced like for like remarkably well. Southampton, to a degree, (but they had a couple of seasons where they only just survived and they seem to have chanced upon a world class manager). The point is this ability to sell and replace with the same quality, but for cheaper, isn't normal and you can't rely on us being able to replicate it.

Our recruitment is decent, if you ask me, but we're miles off of Leicester's level.

To me, it seems a crazy risk to sell our best players when we've barely got our heads above water. We would need to be VERY confident what we've got coming in can immediately and directly replace what we've sold.

That........which is why we haven't sold any so far IMO........

 

[schmunk]

Yes. Its amazing how many people think the transfer market is solely about buying. We have set up loan to buys for both Locadia and Baluta. One for a huge loss and the other for a slight profit but both are seemingly failing at their clubs.

I'd forgotten about Baluta so just looked him up - he's been with Dynamo Kyiv for 8 league matches (they're now on a scheduled break) and has played precisely 1 minute... What's the point?

 

[andy1980]

But this is the problem, we recruit on potential and most of the players we buy are a year or two off from being to significantly contribute to the first team (such as the subject of this thread).

The whole argument for selling a £50m player and buying a £20m player to replace him seems like the £20m is going to be able to come straight in and do the same job.

I'm not convinced.

Recruitment is a highly hit and miss process. Leicester have replaced like for like remarkably well. Southampton, to a degree, (but they had a couple of seasons where they only just survived and they seem to have chanced upon a world class manager). The point is this ability to sell and replace with the same quality, but for cheaper, isn't normal and you can't rely on us being able to replicate it.

Our recruitment is decent, if you ask me, but we're miles off of Leicester's level.

To me, it seems a crazy risk to sell our best players when we've barely got our heads above water. We would need to be VERY confident what we've got coming in can immediately and directly replace what we've sold.

That is not what is meant to happen. The £50m players we sell are meant to be above our level and their replacements are meant to be at our level with the potential to be above our level. Then on the field they spend 2 to 3 seasons getting better and so the cycle continues. That is how we become sustainable at this level.

If White, Bissouma, Lampty were sold in the summer (I don't think all 3 will be) then it will be because they are believed to be the level above us. If Caicedo replaces Bissouma and White goes then it will be because we believe we have premier league ability replacements..

 

[elwheelio]

I'd forgotten about Baluta so just looked him up - he's been with Dynamo Kyiv for 8 league matches (they're now on a scheduled break) and has played precisely 1 minute... What's the point?

Baluta is an odd one. At one point he was very highly rated but he seems to have lost his way.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Who is on observation duty at the Hove Spire hospital today then ? Chop chop......

I can guarantee you won't see anything, all NHS only work at all Spire Hospitals ATM

(I realise your post was in jest)

He'll fly into Shoreham Airport and the plane will taxi into the hanger with the secret underground tunnel to the training ground. The medical will all be done there and no-one will have a clue until we get the picture of him holding up the shirt :thmbsup:

 

[andy1980]

I'd forgotten about Baluta so just looked him up - he's been with Dynamo Kyiv for 8 league matches (they're now on a scheduled break) and has played precisely 1 minute... What's the point?

Sadly it now looks like our £3.5m investment in him is going to be wasted. We were in line to bring in £10m between Baluta and Locadia in the summer. Now it looks like we will get zero.

 

[blue-shifted]

That is not what is meant to happen. The £50m players we sell are meant to be above our level and their replacements are meant to be at our level with the potential to be above our level. Then on the field they spend 2 to 3 seasons getting better and so the cycle continues. That is how we become sustainable at this level.

If White, Bissouma, Lampty were sold in the summer (I don't think all 3 will be) then it will be because they are believed to be the level above us. If Caicedo replaces Bissouma and White goes then it will be because we believe we have premier league ability replacements..

But despite having 3 or 4 "top 6" players we're still balls deep in a relegation battle.

Replace those with "at our level" players, we'll be weakened. We don't have loads of scope for being weakened and staying up.

I'm not sure we'll be sustainable in the short or medium term. But is this a problem? Which PL clubs are regularly, in normal times, avoiding yearly losses? I guess not many.

TB I suspect is planning to keep losses as a manageable level rather than to be self-sustaining. The academy is of course the main driver for this, but I genuinely believe the cream that comes from this is for us. We'll sell but only the ones who won't make our first team. Saving us having to spend, say £25m on a keeper as we can play Sanchez, is the main way it will limit our annual losses

 

[Bladders]

I'd forgotten about Baluta so just looked him up - he's been with Dynamo Kyiv for 8 league matches (they're now on a scheduled break) and has played precisely 1 minute... What's the point?

I remember after an U21 tournament where he did well the head of the Romanian football association said he wont ever play for us as the likes of Barcelona are now in for him

 

[Beanstalk]

But this is the problem, we recruit on potential and most of the players we buy are a year or two off from being to significantly contribute to the first team (such as the subject of this thread).

The whole argument for selling a £50m player and buying a £20m player to replace him seems like the £20m is going to be able to come straight in and do the same job.

I'm not convinced.

Recruitment is a highly hit and miss process. Leicester have replaced like for like remarkably well. Southampton, to a degree, (but they had a couple of seasons where they only just survived and they seem to have chanced upon a world class manager). The point is this ability to sell and replace with the same quality, but for cheaper, isn't normal and you can't rely on us being able to replicate it.

Our recruitment is decent, if you ask me, but we're miles off of Leicester's level.

To me, it seems a crazy risk to sell our best players when we've barely got our heads above water. We would need to be VERY confident what we've got coming in can immediately and directly replace what we've sold.

Well Leicester have a really solid core that they supplement by selling big and buying young. They sold Kanté for a considerable profit and brought in a 19 year old N'didi that same season. Whilst it seemed like it wasn't a great fit at the start he had players like Vicente Iborra and Danny Drinkwater to take the burden off of him and is now looking like a key part of a sublime team. Similarly, they seem to have finally replaced Maguire with an even bigger talent in Wesley Fofana, but there was never an immediate impetus on him performing at the level he has portrayed so far because Soyuncu and Evans are more than capable in those positions.

I agree with your post almost entirely and think that long-term getting a core of players to help support new young talents coming in is going to be the key going forward. The issue is that we are not there yet and also find ourselves in a relegation battle. Having Dunk commit his long term future to the club was probably the first step. Potter has dumped the old guard quite dramatically (Ryan, Duffy, Stephens, Knockaert, Murray) and attempted to bring in a new core of experience more suited to his style (Veltman, Lallana, Welbeck). The problem is that those players also need bedding in and we are where the short-term (survival) is probably more important than the long-term. Currently (with injury issues as well) there is a distinct lack of experience and as you say, any replacement signing in this window needs to work now and not in two years time.

I guess the club would say we are on track to survive at the moment and in a moment of squad transition. Once there is a new core that is settled, players will adapt faster as they will have less pressure on immediate performance. Regardless, it all means nothing if we don't keep our heads above the red line, and go down.

 

[schmunk]

N'didi... ...is now looking like a key part of a sublime team.

N'didi is. *








* sorry **







** not sorry.

 

[andy1980]

But despite having 3 or 4 "top 6" players we're still balls deep in a relegation battle.

Replace those with "at our level" players, we'll be weakened. We don't have loads of scope for being weakened and staying up.

I'm not sure we'll be sustainable in the short or medium term. But is this a problem? Which PL clubs are regularly, in normal times, avoiding yearly losses? I guess not many.

TB I suspect is planning to keep losses as a manageable level rather than to be self-sustaining. The academy is of course the main driver for this, but I genuinely believe the cream that comes from this is for us. We'll sell but only the ones who won't make our first team. Saving us having to spend, say £25m on a keeper as we can play Sanchez, is the main way it will limit our annual losses

First of all I don't think anyone is saying we will sell them in January, I think everyone is thinking about the summer. I think Bloom wants sustainability ASAP. I honestly believe this season our transfer policy has changed. As I said before for the first time since Bloom took over we have only bought to the value we have sold.

I keep reading about people from within the club visiting clubs who are known for working a sustainable transfer policy through Academies and scouting. Its been nearly 12 years now and covid has also had an affect. I think now is the time he wants us to be heading toward sustainability. £450m to get us there is enough.

 

[chaileyjem]

Our recruitment is decent, if you ask me, but we're miles off of Leicester's level.
.

How about our recruitment and wage bill compared to Newcastle, Palace, West Ham, Sheff Utd, Leeds or even Wolves.
or Huddersfield, Norwich, Watford, Bournemouth, Cardiff, Stoke and Swansea who couldn't maintain a squad to stay in the Prem in past 5 years
or Derby, Blackburn, Boro, Reading, Forest, Birmingham, Sheff Weds, Sunderland who haven't in last 5-10 years or more managed to invest or maintain a squad to get into the Prem.

 

[Hamilton]

Have we signed this Caicedo yet!?

And when we do, which club are we immediately loaning him out to

 

[Gazwag]

N'didi is. *








* sorry **







** not sorry.

Maybe I'm not the only one that tries to say Yes just before the commentator says his name

 

[*Gullsworth*]

He'll fly into Shoreham Airport and the plane will taxi into the hanger with the secret underground tunnel to the training ground. The medical will all be done there and no-one will have a clue until we get the picture of him holding up the shirt :thmbsup:

And ready to play against Fulham?