Missile World Cup

[Sergei's Celebration]

I think to show them a lesson that you can't use chemical warfare, we should nuke demascus...

Is that you George Bush Jr?

 

[somerset]

The sad reality is that Syria is better under its current secular dictatorship, ...

OK, just like the non-white population in apartheid South Africa eh?? A minority group ruling with an iron fist, tough social and political controls on all levels....see the similarities?

It was certainly a technical fact that there was fuller employment and less crime before full democracy took its place. Does that mean that the regime shouldn't have been toppled?......no, there will be pain, but in a generation or so, there will be stability.....we hope.

 

[daveinprague]

Well, Id wait until the UN inspectors found concrete evidence rather than taking Americas word it was the Syrian govt forces who used it...Im not convinced yet, as the 'FSA' have done some pretty nasty things in this war already...Not sure that im happy about being allied with people who have torn out peoples hearts and eaten them on camera and wiping out entire areas, men, women, and children, that supported the Assad government...both sides have done 'wrong', but to side with one side is a bit dangerous imo.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

Really dont understand why we in the west feel we have the 'right' to interfere in other countries civil wars...I would guess we would be pretty unhappy about it if somebody intervened in, god forbid, a civil warin the UK. of course there will be horror stories from a civil war...of course women and children will be killed, but thats the nature of a civil war, and always has been..... effectivily taking sides, particularly with a side that appears to contain a large proportion of Islamic fundamentalists cant end well.

Trouble is. When does civil war stop and genocide begin? We didn't do anything about Rwanda and up to a million died. We did do something about Kosovo and saved lives. This isn't quite the same at the moment but how do we know that it won't turn into that?

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

Well, Id wait until the UN inspectors found concrete evidence rather than taking Americas word it was the Syrian govt forces who used it...Im not convinced yet, as the 'FSA' have done some pretty nasty things in this war already...Not sure that im happy about being allied with people who have torn out peoples hearts and eaten them on camera and wiping out entire areas, men, women, and children, that supported the Assad government...both sides have done 'wrong', but to side with one side is a bit dangerous imo.

If the UN does come out and say there is proof on chemical weapon usage. It is from Syrian stock. It was used in/on FSA territory. They can not confirm who fired the shells. Would you support the use of French, US and British military force?

(i believe this is the most likely scenario and we will be in the horrible grey area where its widely believed that Assad fired chemical weapons but it can not be proved by an independent authority).

 

[daveinprague]

Thats my point really...Ive no idea who deployed it...neither do I suspect does anybody else really...both sides have committed atrocities...FSA wiping out whole areas, and beheading civilians, and Syrian army shelling civilian areas, is no better than using chemical weapons as far as im concerned..

 

[somerset]

Trouble is. When does civil war stop and genocide begin? We didn't do anything about Rwanda and up to a million died. We did do something about Kosovo and saved lives. This isn't quite the same at the moment but how do we know that it won't turn into that?

It is very similar to both.....

 

[somerset]

Thats my point really...Ive no idea who deployed it...neither do I suspect does anybody else really...both sides have committed atrocities...FSA wiping out whole areas, and beheading civilians, and Syrian army shelling civilian areas, is no better than using chemical weapons as far as im concerned..

I know you don't have any idea......but the major intelligence agencies combined certainly have a good idea.

So 100000 dead so far, just how long does anybody wait until SOME action is required.....wait and see just doesn't cut it anymore.

 

[daveinprague]

The same intelligence agencies that told us Iraq possessed active WMDs?

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Syria is Iran's biggest ally in the region, and Uncle Sam, he don't like those pesky Persians. That's why we're getting dragged into this mess. We don't get involved in Pakistan, or even Iraq, where different Muslim sects are blowing each other up on a daily basis, and I put suicide bombing on a par with chemical weapons, as it is equally indiscriminate. This is all about bending to the will of Israel, unfortunately. If anyone can take the heat out of this situation, it is the new "moderate" regime in Iran.

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

The same intelligence agencies that told us Iraq possessed active WMDs?

That was 10 years ago under a different govt and with different leaders, military commanders, intelligence heads, heads of dept and different analysts using single source human intelligence and have had to live with that badge ever since.

This does go back to the lack of independent proof of originator. No one is going to believe us or the US (or even the French) saying it was Assad, it has to be from the UN / MSF / etc...

 

[daveinprague]

Thats why im saying, ill wait to hear what the UN inspectors find, rather than what the US state dept tells us..

You would have thought the west would want to keep Assad... if the FSA wins this civil war, then Israel is in for a world of pain next door.

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

Syria is Iran's biggest ally in the region, and Uncle Sam, he don't like those pesky Persians. That's why we're getting dragged into this mess. We don't get involved in Pakistan, or even Iraq, where different Muslim sects are blowing each other up on a daily basis, and I put suicide bombing on a par with chemical weapons, as it is equally indiscriminate. This is all about bending to the will of Israel, unfortunately. If anyone can take the heat out of this situation, it is the new "moderate" regime in Iran.

Do you put all types of chemical weapons in the same bag? Are biological weapons and chemical weapons on a par? are a person borne suicide bomb and a car bomb on the same par as using chemical weapons?

 

[daveinprague]

Not sure if theres much difference being shredded by a car bomb, and having your lungs shredded by chemical weapons...its still an awful way to go.

 

[hybrid_x]

.........and we will be in the horrible grey area where its widely believed that Assad fired chemical weapons but it can not be proved by an independent authority).

But it will be on the front cover of The Sun and the Daily Mail, and on the BBC, and that is enough proof for 99.9% of people in England.

UN inspectors....what a joke.....has anyone seen the staged and coreographed images of them there, and their cars......pure propaganda......oh, and there were snipers too......blah blah blah.


It is all about oil, corps, and the stock market.

 

[somerset]

The same intelligence agencies that told us Iraq possessed active WMDs?

Groan......trot out the same old rhetoric why don't you.......!? Stop muddying the waters, virtually every agency in the world who expressed a view, confirmed their existence at the time....but it is also latterly admitted by those same agencies that the numbers involved were not what they thought, and that Iraq had plenty of time to shift/hide/destroy them, commonly thought to have drifted across the western boarder into Syria.

 

[daveinprague]

Im sorry, but when 'intelligence' agencies take us into wars based on inaccurate 'intelligence', and then apologise, after thousands of civilians have been killed, then i tend to be suspicious of them.
I have no idea who used this 'ordinance', and neither does anybody else really, so to plan attacks on another country on the 'possibility' of
them having wmd's takes us down a path we have already been down.
I also think its weird that we are supporting the FSA, which includes a lot of fundamental Islamists, with strong ties to Al Qaeda, in a country
neighbouring Israel.

'thought to have', 'may have done'..?...

 

[somerset]

if the FSA wins this civil war, then Israel is in for a world of pain next door.

I wouldn't bet on it....any real pain is likely to be moving in the opposite direction, Israel, in those circumstances, will once again deal with Syria, and I don't say that in a triumphalist manner.

 

[daveinprague]

Maybe, but they will have to endure a lot of shit before it ends, plus of course, you have the prospect of other Arab countries getting involved, and then we have a major conflagration.

 

[somerset]

Maybe, but they will have to endure a lot of shit before it ends, plus of course, you have the prospect of other Arab countries getting involved, and then we have a major conflagration.

Its a valid concern of course, but I suspect that other than sporadic 'jihadist' type actions, those other countries in the region are fully aware of the consequences of action by Israel/USA/'the West'......a standoff war can easily destroy the military and industrial infrastructure of any nation who chooses to militarily react......we know it, they know it, the world knows it. I suspect they would throw about a lot of rhetoric, but very little action.