Minute's applause for Mandela ?

[Pretty pink fairy]

You're right - recognition of the life of Nelson Mandela has nothing to do with an English sporting occasion but it has everything to do with giving a large gathering of people the opportunity to publicly acknowledge his achievements. In the same way that congregations in churches, crowds at the Ashes and children in schools were given that same chance.

What you appear to be suggesting is that those attending matches or any other gathering should not have been given that opportunity - if that is what you are suggesting then perhaps you can explain why the FA should not have afforded them that chance.

In other words it really isn't a matter of asking why people should have been given the chance to applaud the life of Nelson Mandela, (if they wanted to), but rather why the FA should have denied them this moment.

what has Mandela got to do with the FA, are they a new political party in this country..........BLIMEY IT JUST GETS BETTER
regards
DR

 

[User removed 4]

Is it too early to tell people mandela abused me as a child ?

 

[Hamilton]

what has Mandela got to do with the FA, are they a new political party in this country..........BLIMEY IT JUST GETS BETTER
regards
DR

What has the FA got to do with humanity?

 

[Creaky]

Wow! Thanks to the Football League for that then, and thanks to you for your pearl of wisdom.

Yes - thanks to the FA hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people were given the opportunity to acknowledge the life of Nelson Mandela - don't see the need to get sarky about it

Cost nothing, took just a minute, a fraction of the time some have spent complaining about it.

 

[The Spanish]

Do you think it is appropriate to have a minutes applause at the football to commemorate anyone's death?

i think a) a minutes applause is a new phenomenon purely based on concern that minutes silences cannot be respected in the crowd concerned so are in themselves somewhat a compromise, which degrades them from the off and;

b) the fact you ask me if i think they are appropriate puts me in the position of seeming cold hearted if i say they are not, therefore morally snookering me on what is a reasonable position.

i cannot argue with the fact that a mass of people will always, communally, want a display of respect/commemoration/celebration - thats human nature and i accept that gladly. perhaps I am the abberation here but it makes me uncomfortable. thats my personal position.

I suppose someone has to arrange, suggest or dictate that these things happen. with the consensus of the majority I suppose I cannot argue. but on here, we have seen lots of people stating that to disagree is churlish, with very little acceptance of any opposing positions, based on very reasonable arguments. that in itself is frightening in its lack of respect for differing opinions.

we live in a culture now where i feel these commemorations are taking the place of religious ceremonies, in a secular society. ceremonies are inherently human, but far from progressive.

 

[BadFish]

i think a) a minutes applause is a new phenomenon purely based on concern that minutes silences cannot be respected in the crowd concerned so are in themselves somewhat a compromise, which degrades them from the off and;

b) the fact you ask me if i think they are appropriate puts me in the position of seeming cold hearted if i say they are not, therefore morally snookering me on what is a reasonable position.

i cannot argue with the fact that a mass of people will always, communally, want a display of respect/commemoration/celebration - thats human nature and i accept that gladly. perhaps I am the abberation here but it makes me uncomfortable. thats my personal position.

I suppose someone has to arrange, suggest or dictate that these things happen. with the consensus of the majority I suppose I cannot argue. but on here, we have seen lots of people stating that to disagree is churlish, with very little acceptance of any opposing positions, based on very reasonable arguments. that in itself is frightening in its lack of respect for differing opinions.

we live in a culture now where i feel these commemorations are taking the place of religious ceremonies, in a secular society. ceremonies are inherently human, but far from progressive.

I don't see it as morally snookering, I was more wondering if you think that these kind of gestures are appropriate for ex players or people with links to Brighton and where you draw the line between them being a reasonable gesture and it becoming a quasi religious event?

FWIW i agree with you up to a point (I found the whole Princess Diana thing very distasteful and found the hype over the Fast and the Furious Bloke entirely out of proportion to his effect on the world). I just can't help feeling that clapping for a minute for someone of Mandela's stature is not a great deal to ask as a gesture.

 

[Simster]

I tend to agree with The Spanish, and being morally snookered is *exactly* what is happening if you ask him whether it is ever reasonable to commemorate a death at a football match.

Lets be clear about this - asking people to respect someone's death for two minutes is an imposition. And I agree with The Spanish on the applause thing. Why applause? It should be a minute's silence or nothing at all. This applause is a total cop out, and is borne out of fear of disruption, which can sometimes (not always) be an indicator that perhaps it isn't appropriate at all.

 

[Easy 10]

Yes - thanks to the FA hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people were given the opportunity to acknowledge the life of Nelson Mandela - don't see the need to get sarky about it

Cost nothing, took just a minute, a fraction of the time some have spent complaining about it.

How has anyone NOT had the opportunity to acknowledge the life of Nelson Mandela ? Why did they have to attend a football match in order to do so ? Anyone, absolutely ANYONE wanting to acknowledge the great mans life could have done so quite easily in their own personal way by turning off the news and spending a minute or two, or however long they wanted, in quiet thought and reflection on his life.

I just do not understand the authorities need and desire for everyone to publically show their respects towards a political figure at an unconnected sporting event.

And saying it only took a minute anyway just misses the point entirely. Its not a question of whether it cost anything, or whether it was inconvenient in some way. In the great scheme of things of course it wasn't.

Its a question of relevence, of whether a crowd of people who are there to watch Brighton v Leicester, or Arsenal v Everton, or Tamworth v Bristol City should be told they must now publically acknowledge the death of a South African politician. Seriously, why ? Can't we all just be left to our own devices when it comes to acknowledging the death of important people in the world ? Why this need for football crowds to do these public displays ?

How about a crowd of people at a concert ?
How about a crowd of people on a platform queuing for a tube ?
How about a crowd of people queuing outside HMV for a PS4 ?

The Mandela one, after the Sussex FA bloke, was just the latest in a series of public displays of respect, and I think they get more and more meaningless the more we have. If there is no connection with BHAFC, then its not paying respects. Its paying lip service.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Amazing that it was only 60 seconds of clapping, yet a lot of posts in this thread clearly take more time than that to type.

Jesus wept

 

[Easy 10]

Amazing that it was only 60 seconds of clapping, yet a lot of posts in this thread clearly take more time than that to type.

Jesus wept

*sigh*

Its a discussion, an exchange of opinions, a debate on an event. The comparable time it takes to type out an opinion on that event is completely irrelevent.

Jack Butland was taking about a minute to take a goal kick, which was pissing plenty of people off. Should we RACE to finish posting an opinion on that, just in case we end up taking longer to type the post than it took Butland to piss us off, therefore rendering the whole post meaniningless ?

 

[keaton]

*sigh*

Its a discussion, an exchange of opinions, a debate on an event. The comparable time it takes to type out an opinion on that event is completely irrelevent.

Jack Butland was taking about a minute to take a goal kick, which was pissing plenty of people off. Should we RACE to finish posting an opinion on that, just in case we end up taking longer to type the post than it took Butland to piss us off, therefore rendering the whole post meaniningless ?

That's cheating though, I can see why you'd be annoyed and part of going to the game is being annoyed with the opposition.

It just seems incredibly petty to still be complaining about a minute's applause clapping, that you were free to ignore, four days later.

 

[Creaky]

How has anyone NOT had the opportunity to acknowledge the life of Nelson Mandela ? Why did they have to attend a football match in order to do so ? Anyone, absolutely ANYONE wanting to acknowledge the great mans life could have done so quite easily in their own personal way by turning off the news and spending a minute or two, or however long they wanted, in quiet thought and reflection on his life.

I just do not understand the authorities need and desire for everyone to publically show their respects towards a political figure at an unconnected sporting event.

And saying it only took a minute anyway just misses the point entirely. Its not a question of whether it cost anything, or whether it was inconvenient in some way. In the great scheme of things of course it wasn't.

Its a question of relevence, of whether a crowd of people who are there to watch Brighton v Leicester, or Arsenal v Everton, or Tamworth v Bristol City should be told they must now publically acknowledge the death of a South African politician. Seriously, why ? Can't we all just be left to our own devices when it comes to acknowledging the death of important people in the world ? Why this need for football crowds to do these public displays ?

How about a crowd of people at a concert ?
How about a crowd of people on a platform queuing for a tube ?
How about a crowd of people queuing outside HMV for a PS4 ?

The Mandela one, after the Sussex FA bloke, was just the latest in a series of public displays of respect, and I think they get more and more meaningless the more we have. If there is no connection with BHAFC, then its not paying respects. Its paying lip service.

Once again nobody was "told they must" publicly acknowledge anything - they were just given the chance to do so.

It's not that unusual either for audiences at a concert, theatre nor indeed passengers queuing for the tube to stop for a minutes silence on November 11th.

Certainly you can argue that such displays are losing there significance due to the frequency of there occurrence and I possibly agree with this sentiment. To select the death of Nelson Mandela however as the time to make this point does seem to be a little churlish - whether you individually agree or not that his achievements are worthy of such a tribute the simple fact is that the vast majority do.

The point about the frequency and relevance of such events would have been much better made following a minutes silence or applause following one of the previous occasions marking the death of someone many have never heard of, something which can't be said of Nelson Mandela.

 

[The Spanish]

The point about the frequency and relevance of such events would have been much better made following a minutes silence or applause following one of the previous occasions marking the death of someone many have never heard of, something which can't be said of Nelson Mandela.

the point is often made when its not Nelson Mandela. this is hardly a new debate.

I totally understand the global reaction to his passing. The point is being missed massively by so many on here, often willfully. If its inappropriate to discuss minutes applauses (a very new phenomenon founded in dubious circumstances) proposed and implement by a footballing governing body for the purposes of staging a spectacle, albeit with good intentions, due to the nature of the man in question, then that in itself is a concern. the inference that to discuss this issue, at this point, means you have an angle or agenda, or lack a sense of propriety, is scary and to a certain extent proves a point about peoples motivations.

 

[Easy 10]

That's cheating though, I can see why you'd be annoyed and part of going to the game is being annoyed with the opposition.

It just seems incredibly petty to still be complaining about a minute's applause clapping, that you were free to ignore, four days later.

I'm not complaining at all. If I was complaining, I'd be writing to the FA about it. I'm just expressing my opinion on the subject, I've not lost any sleep over it. I admit I'm a little late returning to the debate, but I've not had much time to revisit this thread since I posted on page 1 last Friday.

 

[Creaky]

the point is often made when its not Nelson Mandela. this is hardly a new debate.

I totally understand the global reaction to his passing. The point is being missed massively by so many on here, often willfully. If its inappropriate to discuss minutes applauses (a very new phenomenon founded in dubious circumstances) proposed and implement by a footballing governing body for the purposes of staging a spectacle, albeit with good intentions, due to the nature of the man in question, then that in itself is a concern. the inference that to discuss this issue, at this point, means you have an angle or agenda, is scary and to a certain extent proves apoint about peoples motivations.

Agenda

Hardly - it just seems strange to have such a long thread about whether or not it is appropriate for football crowds to mark certain events by doing so following one for someone so well known rather than for someone less so.

It just weakens the argument.

 

[MattBackHome]

How about a crowd of people queuing outside HMV for a PS4 ?

I'd humbly suggest that anyone finding themself queueing outside HMV for a PS4 should, along with their co-queuers, hold a minutes silence for the passing of their own sanity.

And I agree with everything The Spanish has said on this thread.

 

[Easy 10]

Once again nobody was "told they must" publicly acknowledge anything - they were just given the chance to do so.

It's not that unusual either for audiences at a concert, theatre nor indeed passengers queuing for the tube to stop for a minutes silence on November 11th.

Well, by attending a public event, and being "given the chance" to publically acknowledge Nelson Mandela, you are then in a position whereby you must publically display whether or not you choose to acknowledge and applaud him. Some will want to applaud him to publically show their respects. Some would wish not to as they did not hold him in regard. Some won't give a toss one way or the other, and will just clap like seals whilst standing there wondering who's on the subs bench. The point is, someone in authority decided this was big enough news to need (another) public outpouring, so everyone in the ground is by default publically obliged to either go along with it, or make a point of NOT going along with it.

A minutes silence for Remembrance on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month is a long, time-honoured tradition to pay respect for those who made the ultimate sacrifice whilst fighting for OUR freedom. I feel more of a personal connection with that than I do with Nelson Mandela - who I do not dispute was a great and inspritational man. But he's not someone I feel moved to publically acknowledge before I watch a football match.

The Spanish covered the rest of your points perfectly.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Is it too early to tell people mandela abused me as a child ?

Very nearly ROFL! Touche!