Minister Rules Out Vaccine Passports In UK

[Weststander]

That's the next major U-Turn-In-Waiting right there, soon as the words were out of Nadhim Zahawi's mouth

'The government has ruled out plans to issue so-called "vaccine passports" to enable people who have had the jab against coronavirus to travel abroad.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/55970801

Did the government ever say Vaccine Passports were definitely going to happen?

I recall policy ideas, debates, much furore from pandemic deniers, vaccine conspiracy theorists, but also libertarians and people who questioned the practicalites.

I for one am pleased there's been debate and flexibility.


On the other side of the coin, destinations such as the EU as a whole are leaning towards a vaccine passport being a prerequiste for entering the EU.

This has certainly focused minds amongst pandemic deniers and anti-vaxers. A mate's daughter who believes all the Facebook fiction about the vaccines, initially turned her vaccine down (she's asthmatic so qualified), but has reversed that heart-felt decision as she's desparate to get some sun in the Med this summer.

5live yesterday took calls from folk in the nursing/care home sector, who had care assistants refusing the vaccine, being anti vaxers. One of whom only changed their mind because she's rather keen to go abroad this summer.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Did the government ever say Vaccine Passports were definitely going to happen?

I recall policy ideas, debates, much furore from pandemic deniers, vaccine conspiracy theorists, but also libertarians and people who questioned the practicalites.

I for one am pleased there's been debate and flexibility.


On the other side of the coin, destinations such as the EU as a whole are leaning towards a vaccine passport being a prerequiste for entering the EU.

This has certainly focused minds amongst pandemic deniers and anti-vaxers. A mate's daughter who believes all the Facebook fiction about the vaccines, initially turned her vaccine down (she's asthmatic so qualified), but has reversed that heart-felt decision as she's desparate to get some sun in the Med this summer.

5live yesterday took calls from folk in the nursing/care home sector, who had care assistants refusing the vaccine, being anti vaxers. One of whom only changed their mind because she's rather keen to go abroad this summer.

There's guaranteed to always be an alternative to a vaccine passport available to anti vaxers and, sadly, those who are advised against the vaccine, or who just have not had their turn for it come around. The alternative is pretty much guaranteed to look much like the costly alternative it does at the moment (private testing, enforced quarantine etc)

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

either way will lead to pubs not bothering to open or people not going out as much as they would, the reopening the economy will fall flat on its face. Johnson appears to be snatching defeat from the jaws of victory here. hopefully its "looking" at and the final outcome will be watered down advice rather than legal restrictions.

If we go down the path of having to show a clear test/vaccine proof it must be the end of masks in those places?

 

[The Wizard]

I’m mid twenties and I’m open to having the vaccine even though I don’t feel I need it, in order to help protect others, but should they bring in vaccine passports to enter premises I will be rejecting my jab when the time comes, coercing citizens with threats against basic freedoms into having a vaccine is a very, very dark road to go down.

Boris and the vaccine minister will have a lot to answer for if they U-turn on this, in 2 months we’ve gone from no chance of vaccine passports to Boris saying ‘it could be up to the landlord’ that’s the goalposts half moved already, expect more moves over the next month.

Stop labelling people as Anti-vax because they don’t like government coercion into doing something they should lawfully and rightfully be able to have the choice as to whether they have it, having lots of friends a similar age to me, I can only see this backfiring massively, it will decrease take up if anything from what I’ve heard.

 

[Weststander]

I’m mid twenties and I’m open to having the vaccine even though I don’t feel I need it, in order to help protect others, but should they bring in vaccine passports to enter premises I will be rejecting my jab when the time comes, coercing citizens with threats against basic freedoms into having a vaccine is a very, very dark road to go down.

Boris and the vaccine minister will have a lot to answer for if they U-turn on this, in 2 months we’ve gone from no chance of vaccine passports to Boris saying ‘it could be up to the landlord’ that’s the goalposts half moved already, expect more moves over the next month.

Stop labelling people as Anti-vax because they don’t like government coercion into doing something they should lawfully and rightfully be able to have the choice as to whether they have it, having lots of friends a similar age to me, I can only see this backfiring massively, it will decrease take up if anything from what I’ve heard.

My post mentioned all of:

Pandemic deniers, vaccine conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxers, but also libertarians and people who questioned the practicalites of vaccine passports.

A wide array of views.

Anti-vaxers exist in significant numbers, many believing the lies of Icke. Including some people close to me. Some have blatantly ignored lockdown laws over the last year.

 

[beorhthelm]

If we go down the path of having to show a clear test/vaccine proof it must be the end of masks in those places?

in theory. which will nice for those over 50, except those that cant have one (those that wont can jog on). people will find they cant go to the vaccine only pub, but wont go to the mask only pub either. so not go out at all for another few months. we also need to stop the massively costly testing regime, its short term and not viable for long.

 

[The Wizard]

My post mentioned all of:

Pandemic deniers, vaccine conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxers, but also libertarians and people who questioned the practicalites of vaccine passports.

A wide array of views.

Anti-vaxers exist in significant numbers, many believing the lies of Icke. Including some people close to me. Some have blatantly ignored lockdown laws over the last year.

And do you think the government using coercion is going to help any of those issues?

There’s also a hell of a lot of people out there like me, who are rightfully weighing up their own risk vs risk of taking the vaccine, I’m a very healthy person in my twenties and as I mentioned I’m happy to have it based on evidence but I don’t agree with people being forced into having it through threats of not having freedoms others will have.

I also think it’s highly unethical to even offer a vaccine to people my age whilst there is still vulnerable people all over the world dying who that vaccine could potentially save.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Did the government ever say Vaccine Passports were definitely going to happen?

I recall policy ideas, debates, much furore from pandemic deniers, vaccine conspiracy theorists, but also libertarians and people who questioned the practicalites.

I for one am pleased there's been debate and flexibility.


On the other side of the coin, destinations such as the EU as a whole are leaning towards a vaccine passport being a prerequiste for entering the EU.

This has certainly focused minds amongst pandemic deniers and anti-vaxers. A mate's daughter who believes all the Facebook fiction about the vaccines, initially turned her vaccine down (she's asthmatic so qualified), but has reversed that heart-felt decision as she's desparate to get some sun in the Med this summer.

5live yesterday took calls from folk in the nursing/care home sector, who had care assistants refusing the vaccine, being anti vaxers. One of whom only changed their mind because she's rather keen to go abroad this summer.

They’ve usually given the typical politicians answer ...several times it was “no plans”....

Wonder if care homes will make it compulsory for residents

 

[beorhthelm]

I’m mid twenties and I’m open to having the vaccine even though I don’t feel I need it, in order to help protect others, but should they bring in vaccine passports to enter premises I will be rejecting my jab when the time comes, coercing citizens with threats against basic freedoms into having a vaccine is a very, very dark road to go down.

so you'll happily take a jab voluntarily, but not if its needed to go into a pub its like saying you'd only wear a seat belt if its by choice, wont because its law.

how about taking the jab to protect others, then not going to the pub on principle.

 

[LamieRobertson]

My post mentioned all of:

Pandemic deniers, vaccine conspiracy theorists, anti-vaxers, but also libertarians and people who questioned the practicalites of vaccine passports.

A wide array of views.

Anti-vaxers exist in significant numbers, many believing the lies of Icke. Including some people close to me. Some have blatantly ignored lockdown laws over the last year.

Don’t forget those for medical reasons that can’t

 

[LamieRobertson]

so you'll happily take a jab voluntarily, but not if its needed to go into a pub

how about taking the jab to protect others, then not going to the pub on principle.

.....hmmm.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I'm not a fan of non-international-travel vaccine passports as they are the thin end of a nasty wedge.

But I'd rather have to carry a vaccine passport around than wear an infernal, uncomfortable, glasses steaming mask all the time.

 

[LamieRobertson]

I'm not a fan of non-international vaccine passports as they are the thin end of a nasty wedge.

But I'd rather have to carry a vaccine passport around than wear an infernal, uncomfortable, glasses steaming mask all the time.

LOL....aye..a dilemma

 

[The Wizard]

so you'll happily take a jab voluntarily, but not if its needed to go into a pub its like saying you'd only wear a seat belt if its by choice, wont because its law.

how about taking the jab to protect others, then not going to the pub on principle.

That’s literally the exact point, because it’s freedom of choice, I won’t take the jab if I know people are going to be discriminated against or persecuted because of their right to choose whether they have the vaccine.

Besides that, the jab doesn’t really protect others 100% as having the jab only reduces transmission and doesn’t stop you contracting the virus, so the risk will always be there.

Do people seriously think using coercion with threats against normal life, is a way of increasing uptake in age groups the government already know are naturally going to be hesitant.

 

[Weststander]

And do you think the government using coercion is going to help any of those issues?

There’s also a hell of a lot of people out there like me, who are rightfully weighing up their own risk vs risk of taking the vaccine, I’m a very healthy person in my twenties and as I mentioned I’m happy to have it based on evidence but I don’t agree with people being forced into having it through threats of not having freedoms others will have.

I also think it’s highly unethical to even offer a vaccine to people my age whilst there is still vulnerable people all over the world dying who that vaccine could potentially save.

You're widening the discussion, fair enough.

Personally, I don't believe in mandatory vaccinations, mandatory vaccine passports, or pubs being compelled in the medium term to insist of vaccine passports. The last opinon is based on simply wanting pubs to stay afloat, we've lost so many pre-pandemic anyway, society/lawmakers should now do much to allow our remaining pubs survive or better.

Once the pandemic is over, in so far as CV19 has 'just' become another deadly virus managed successfully by annual vaccines, I'd like to see all the emergency powers and law revoked.

Care homes, airlines, people running gigs and cruise ship operators should be able to insist on only vaccinated staff (and punters), if they so choose, it's private property and their prerogative. A lawyer on LBC yesterday said that longstanding law backs that, with one the exception of discrimation legislation for example for someone who cannot medically safely take a vaccine.

 

[LamieRobertson]

You're widening the discussion, fair enough.

Personally, I don't believe in mandatory vaccinations, mandatory vaccine passports, or pubs being compelled in the medium term to insist of vaccine passports. The last opinon is based on simply wanting pubs to stay afloat, we've lost so many pre-pandemic anyway, society/lawmakers should now do much to allow our remaining pubs survive or better.

Once the pandemic is over, in so far as CV19 has 'just' become another deadly virus managed successfully by annual vaccines, I'd like to see all the emergency powers and law revoked.

Care homes, airlines, people running gigs and cruise ship operators should be able to insist on only vaccinated staff (and punters), if they so choose, it's private property and their prerogative. A lawyer on LBC yesterday said that longstanding law backs that, with one the exception of discrimation legislation for example for someone who cannot medically safely take a vaccine.

Would that include an existing resident of a care home?

 

[dsr-burnley]

That’s literally the exact point, because it’s freedom of choice, I won’t take the jab if I know people are going to be discriminated against or persecuted because of their right to choose whether they have the vaccine.

Besides that, the jab doesn’t really protect others 100% as having the jab only reduces transmission and doesn’t stop you contracting the virus, so the risk will always be there.

Do people seriously think using coercion with threats against normal life, is a way of increasing uptake in age groups the government already know are naturally going to be hesitant.

I don't think there is a point of principle involved here, really. If coronavirus had instead been the black death, killing one third of the population, but there was a vaccine, then I don't think we need doubt that the vaccine would be compulsory. So that establishes (to my mind) the principle that compulsory vaccination in certain circumstances is OK.

The question then becomes, are these the right circumstances? I have my doubts, but I'm not convinced either way to make a stand about it - and also I am mad keen to be vaccinated (I've had the first jab) which rather colours my argument anyway. But as a matter of general principle, not a problem.

The discrimination issue is another biggie. It's been suggested for some time that children who don't have a measles vaccine shouldn't be allowed into (at the extreme) schools at all. I don't like that. On the other hand, it's known that TB sufferers who chose not to be vaccinated haven't just hurt themselves, they have assisted the disease to re-establish itself and to gain immunity against a lot of antibiotics. I don't like that either. Arguments both ways.

 

[beorhthelm]

Do people seriously think using coercion with threats against normal life, is a way of increasing uptake in age groups the government already know are naturally going to be hesitant.

why is there an age group naturally hesitant about vaccines? unless anti-vax sentiment is rife among the youth, i dont understand this line of argument. is there? we have coercion all the time in normal life, like seat belts, taxes, law.

the jab protects sufficiently that if a large majority of people have it, transmission will be minimal, and effects of contraction minor. i disagree with the idea of vaccine passports, if insufficient people are taking up the vaccine though stupidity or selfishness that will save tens of thousands of lives, then we may have to do that. so if you see the sense of taking the jab, take it and ignore the talk of it being needed for pubs, because you'll have done your part and be good anyway.

 

[The Wizard]

why is there an age group naturally hesitant about vaccines? unless anti-vax sentiment is rife among the youth, i dont understand this line of argument. is there? we have coercion all the time in normal life, like seat belts, taxes, law.

the jab protects sufficiently that if a large majority of people have it, transmission will be minimal, and effects of contraction minor. i disagree with the idea of vaccine passports, if insufficient people are taking up the vaccine though stupidity or selfishness that will save tens of thousands of lives, then we may have to do that. so if you see the sense of taking the jab, take it and ignore the talk of it being needed for pubs, because you'll have done your part and be good anyway.

Because naturally, people who are under 40 have an exceptionally low mortality rate and so you are much less likely to feel like you need the vaccine, I know people who are hesitant because they feel the risk of the vaccine and side effects are higher than the actual virus itself and feel it’s unethical to give people like me a vaccine when other countries around Europe can’t even vaccinate their vulnerable.

I can near guarantee you, if they bring in vaccine passports to try and coerce people into getting the vaccine against their own choice, it will backfire massively. The government have one chance at trying to convince those who are undecided, and coercion or threats against freedom are simply not the way.

 

[Weststander]

Would that include an existing resident of a care home?

No one should be forced to physically have a vaccine in the UK imho, nor will they be.

I think we can all agree on that?