[News] Mind the GAP or alternatively.....

[Is it PotG?]

and some people are a lot more fashion conscious than you are.

Sauce?

 

[Simster]

A sad example of this is a prominent figure from my childhood (maybe even my father), the trusty milkman, has all but disappeared.

The romantic image of the man delivering all sorts of good to your doorstep has long since moved on in the name of progress. It's sad, as is the demise of the High Street, but it's going to happen alas.

Same as cheque books going, cash free etc etc, it will never end.

It's not really the same though. You can still buy milk and newspapers as easily as the days of milkmen and the days when everyone had newspapers delivered. There was no real impact on people's lives except it's made the Father Ted "Speed" episode look somewhat dated.

We have all looked at the demise of the milkman, shrugged, thought "bit of a shame" and moved on. That won't be happening when there is literally nowhere to buy something you desperately need before the day is out.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Amazed there are only 81 stores in uk.
That seems quite a low number.

 

[Is it PotG?]

It's not really the same though. You can still buy milk and newspapers as easily as the days of milkmen and the days when everyone had newspapers delivered. There was no real impact on people's lives except it's made the Father Ted "Speed" episode look somewhat dated.

We have all looked at the demise of the milkman, shrugged, thought "bit of a shame" and moved on. That won't be happening when there is literally nowhere to buy something you desperately need before the day is out.

Ok, you're right.

 

[Gwylan]

1)
Clearly shopping habits have changed, but the real question is "how much to we value our high streets?". If the answer is "we don't, let them whither" then of course doing nothing is the right way to go.

One answer would be that, rather than let town centres wither, we turn the former shops into homes so that there's still plenty of life in commercial areas. It will also go some way to solving the housing issue.
Of course, there's no sign that the government would do anything as useful as this because it may lead to a reduction in house prices, but it would be a solution.

 

[schmunk]

A sad example of this is a prominent figure from my childhood (maybe even my father), the trusty milkman, has all but disappeared.

The romantic image of the man delivering all sorts of good to your doorstep has long since moved on in the name of progress. It's sad, as is the demise of the High Street, but it's going to happen alas.

View attachment 138170

Same as cheque books going, cash free etc etc, it will never end.

What are you on about? The friendly man from the grocers delivers all our shopping, three times a week!

 

[Is it PotG?]

What are you on about? The friendly man from the grocers delivers all our shopping, three times a week!

Indeed. Don't think I've been in a supermarket for about three years now.

 

[Chicken Run]

Thank you Captain Obvious. Clearly purchasing habits have changed as a direct consequence of the fact that online shopping is cheaper because of fewer overheads. It can also be more convenient but not necessarily. If you need something today, you can't go online. If you need to try something on, you can't go online.

When there are no shops on the high street except charity shops, pound shops, mega supermarkets and betting shops, people will stop and think "why can't it be like it was?" and the reason for that is that no government has bothered to consider the consequences of letting Amazon get away with paying no tax, and the wider idea that IMO there really ought to be a levy on all online purchases that subsidises the high street, because if that doesn't happen then our high streets are going to be grim, soulless places to see.

You forgot Greggs from your High Street leftovers list, those ****ers aren’t going anywhere!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[zefarelly]

A sad example of this is a prominent figure from my childhood (maybe even my father), the trusty milkman, has all but disappeared.

The romantic image of the man delivering all sorts of good to your doorstep has long since moved on in the name of progress. It's sad, as is the demise of the High Street, but it's going to happen alas.

View attachment 138170

Same as cheque books going, cash free etc etc, it will never end.

We still have our milk delivered, have done for years.

I guess the Milk depot on the Droveway has gone now ?

 

[zefarelly]

You forgot Greggs from your High Street leftovers list, those ****ers aren’t going anywhere!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

neither are the people who eat the lard. At least not very quickly.

 

[beorhthelm]

the high street is a means to an end. it doesnt need to be saved and more than coach houses needed to be saved, we dont need government step in to favour one retail model over another.

the notion we must keep the high street so everything is available is preposterous, and never was. not every high street has to have a clothes shop, car parts, toy shop, book shop, electrical goods shop, they were leaving high streets decades before the internet came along, because there wasnt demand. and never where present in smaller towns. if we are to have government intervention, should they mandate an allocation of all types of shopping outlet in each town, subsidising those that aren't viable?

 

[Knocky's Nose]

I'm not sure there is a need to save it anyway. Things – including shopping habits – evolve and sometimes you can't stop it

This, really..

We all work longer hours than we did in the 1950-80's, far more women (huge spenders on the high street back in the day) work long hours now and aren't 'housewives' any more, so don't have time to spend half a day trawling around a town centre for all their bits and pieces (oh, and paying a piss take amount to park their cars, too)

I think as we all get busier, and in some cases lazier, shopping is seen as a chore. If someone lays a convenient solution to a chore in front of you, you're going to take it.

In my opinion, this is simply evolution.

Yes, Amazon etc should be paying their fair taxes though. The way they got away with it was so fundamentally wrong.

 

[Lower West Stander]

This isn't big news.

Gap is a US business with minimal presence in the UK. Sales here are a rounding error.

I take issue with those on here who say we don't need shops on the high st. Talk to Simon Wolfson and he will tell you that physical shops are an essential future part of his strategy. People still like to go to stores, look at the product, try them on etc. Additionally, Click & Collect is becoming increasingly important - the ratio of buying stuff online and then going to shop to collect it is pretty high. Next has a big online business but it is heavily complemented by its physical operations.

Rents are rebasing lower. There is certainly a survival of the fittest but those who remain are there for a reason - Next, Zara, H&M etc. They will remain - but only in places where the occupancy costs are low. Many are playing hardball with landlords but in prime locations, they still see being there as important. Tbh - I'm surprised Gap lasted as long as they did - there's no critical mass.

Business Rates certainly need to be changed - and that issue lies with the Rishi. But the companies I mentioned above are in a solid financial position and it will become a negotiated process. I also think we'll see rent holidays become more prominent in startups - landlords have nothing to lose by giving a keen startup free space. The office market have been incentivising like this for years.

Far too sweeping to say its the end of the high st although I agree with Simster the government needs to do more. We are the most over-rented country in Europe with historical upwards only rent reviews and no regulation around them. Unlike France for example where leases are shorter and subject to inflation linked uplifts. Our online penetration and demographics also mean we are more vulnerable than more rural countries or those where the high st and out of town centres are more food led.

My own view is that the high st is adapting and will survive. There will be more pain - but I attribute that to supply and demand in an evolving dynamic.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

1) The money would come from a levy on all online purchases.

2) Because there are some things that can't be bought from home. If you need something now or if you need to try things on. Plus what about those stores who bring things to market in a shop, only to see people walk away and then buy it cheaper online? They need protecting IMO. Oh and those without internet access would be screwed. And if you think that is a laughable notion, then why did so many Tory voters scoff at Corbyn's suggestion that internet access needs subsidising for the poor?


Clearly shopping habits have changed, but the real question is "how much to we value our high streets?". If the answer is "we don't, let them whither" then of course doing nothing is the right way to go. But we need to be answering that question seriously, because once it's gone, it might well never come back.

The issues with that are that there probably aren't enough things that people need that day to sustain a high street store. Need food or drink? Go to the supermarket or an 'express'-type shop. Same for clothes, kitchenware, soft furnishings, medicines etc, etc. Need DIY tools? Go to an out of town DIY shop. Most other things aren't spontaneous purchases.

The need to try things on is negated by companies offering free returns – they can afford to do that because they don't have the overheads of a physical presence. Or even if there is a charge, it's often easier/still cheaper than going online. I totally get what you're saying, I just don't think the demand or appetite is there for people to come flocking back to the high street. Certainly not to have them as busy as they used to be.

I'm not sure about an online levy. How/why would you do that? Just to potentially save an industry that is in decline? I don't see the point.

 

[beorhthelm]

Yes, Amazon etc should be paying their fair taxes though. The way they got away with it was so fundamentally wrong.

Amazon tax position isnt really anything to do with this. some years back they avoided VAT by selling out of Luxembourg, practice stop long ago as i understand. then there's tax on profit, where we need to understand these only apply on profit in this country. if they dont make that much profit margin, there isnt tax due. we could overhaul the entire tax system, but that is not without consequences (we have net inflows of taxes from companies operating abroad).

more to the point, reorganising international tax reporting will not change shopping habits on our high streets. business rates could be dropped, still more likely to favour coffee shops and electronics vendors and the like. volume and margins are the real issue, you need to shift large volumes of low margin goods to be viable, and theres too much competition elsewhere, from supermarkets, out of town, as well as online, for the quaint little high street shop to survive. the one area they can provide advantage is service, apparently many aren't interested in that.

 

[clapham_gull]

expect lots of people who never use the shops to lament their loss.

I've never been in there but I'm frankly gutted.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Our high streets are being decimated so badly that the government needs to step in with a plan to save it.

But that seems too much like hard work so I won't hold my breath.

Might the death of the high street sbe more to do with shopping online rather than something the government can control?

In the US (don't have UK figures) Amazon accounts for 1 in 10 of ALL retail sales by value. And grew from 9% last year.

In March, GAP announced that 45% of their sales were online. (https://internetretailing.net/strategy-and-innovation/strategy-and-innovation/gap-shifts-to-digital-first-strategy-as-45-of-annual-sales-take-place-online-22821)

It's a bit like when people lament the loss of independent buthcers when buying all their meat more chaply next door at Saino.

Not sure government is the answer - this is infrastructural change at work isn;t it?

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

PS I don't think the High Street is dead. It's evolving. My guess is that we'll see brands fill the space and shops will become more experiential. Brands don't really care where you buy their products, as long as you buy theirs and not their rival. So they have a reason to get close and personal with their customers, and the High Street is perfect for that.

 

[Simster]

The issues with that are that there probably aren't enough things that people need that day to sustain a high street store. Need food or drink? Go to the supermarket or an 'express'-type shop. Same for clothes, kitchenware, soft furnishings, medicines etc, etc. Need DIY tools? Go to an out of town DIY shop. Most other things aren't spontaneous purchases.

The need to try things on is negated by companies offering free returns – they can afford to do that because they don't have the overheads of a physical presence. Or even if there is a charge, it's often easier/still cheaper than going online. I totally get what you're saying, I just don't think the demand or appetite is there for people to come flocking back to the high street. Certainly not to have them as busy as they used to be.

I'm not sure about an online levy. How/why would you do that? Just to potentially save an industry that is in decline? I don't see the point.

You make some good points there for sure. I think you're right, the high street won't ever bounce back to where is was in its heyday. However, when recognised high street brands continue to go under (not so much Gap which is American, but BHS, Burtons/Dorothy Perkins, Woolworths and Debenhams) they leave enormous gaping holes in the high street that I am convinced will be sorely missed because the bigger stores attract people into the high street and thus into smaller shops.

The online levy idea is only going to work if people value the high street. If they don't, then an online levy is not a good idea. Personally I feel that we will miss the high street when it's turned into a desolate place with only the handful of crappy shops I talked about earlier. It is far too easy just to shrug and say "that's the market" as if it's already a fait acompli.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

You make some good points there for sure. I think you're right, the high street won't ever bounce back to where is was in its heyday. However, when recognised high street brands continue to go under (not so much Gap which is American, but BHS, Burtons/Dorothy Perkins, Woolworths and Debenhams) they leave enormous gaping holes in the high street that I am convinced will be sorely missed because the bigger stores attract people into the high street and thus into smaller shops.

The online levy idea is only going to work if people value the high street. If they don't, then an online levy is not a good idea. Personally I feel that we will miss the high street when it's turned into a desolate place with only the handful of crappy shops I talked about earlier. It is far too easy just to shrug and say "that's the market" as if it's already a fait acompli.

None of the people you list are brands however (maybe DP was, I don't know). They are intermediaries. They buy brands, store them, display them and sell them for a margin. That model is dead, not the highstreet. The disintermediaries have reenginnered that model to remove the need for having stores (which are in effect inefficient distribution hubs).

The new high street will be full of the equivalent of Apple stores where actual brands (people that make things) will engage with their audience. We've shifted from buying on the High Street to experiences. And the brands will fill that gap (parden the pun) pretty quickly. In the short term, there will be some real infrastructural challenges for retailers and for the owners of shapping centres, but that's cyclical and has always evolved. I don't worry for the High Street - I see it becaming more stimulating, more diverse and a more enjoyable experience than it has been for a decade.