Milliband promises to increase minimum wage if elected

[Return of the Rev]

I don't want those lazy dopey student gits working in the amex kiosks to get a penny more

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Why is rewarding hard working people from the current economic growth "a joke"? Surely any decent person and intelligent can not only see this is just but sensible.

Of course it's right to pay a fair wage, however, equally many smaller businesses will be forced to put up their prices also to allow themselves to pay the increased wages.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Of course it's right to pay a fair wage, however, equally many smaller businesses will be forced to put up their prices also to allow themselves to pay the increased wages.

I've addressed this earlier, search for "smarter business"

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

I've addressed this earlier, search for "smarter business"

What about if "smarter business" means employing less staff. Is that ok? What about if "smarter business" means putting lots of their staff on zero hour contracts. Is that ok?

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

I've addressed this earlier, search for "smarter business"

Whilst I thank you for pointing out my lack of business knowledge, obvious lack of experience and limited creative ability, I too would point out that some businesses are so smart they've already done a fair bit to navigate one of the worst economic downturns know to this country. Manufacturing businesses in the country are struggling against cheaper, less credible products and a consumer that just want "cheap", until it all comes crashing down, i.e. food scares, poor quality etc. During this time employers are focussed on maintaining jobs for people, training staff and reinvesting in their business. These types of businesses offer little reward for their owners but they continue on in the hope that one day a visionary, such as yourself, can show them the error of their ways.

Meanwhile, higher wages normally mean increased prices, as labour tends to be a large part of the cost of hand-made manufactured goods, but what the **** would I know?

 

[Questions]

Some people just don't have a clue. I have a small business and like my workers I earn less than £8 an hour. Every time the minimum wage increases then mine reduces to pay workers the extra. What happens when people like me have to close their businesses and the workforce don't have a job.

It's all very well having a minimum wage policy for large corporate organisations but how is the small business owner supposed to survive as they have to comply with minimum wage legislation.

If you are running a business where you cannot pay yourself £8.00 an hour and after allowing for all the responsibility and all the paperwork you must have to do what with insurances, paye etc then I reckon you should be looking to do something else. You must be stressed to the max.
Your workers are on 6.50 per hr are they.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

If you are running a business where you cannot pay yourself £8.00 an hour and after allowing for all the responsibility and all the paperwork you must have to do what with insurances, paye etc then I reckon you should be looking to do something else. You must be stressed to the max.
Your workers are on 6.50 per hr are they.

It's a very simplistic view. Some people have other incentives / needs for keeping a business running, they may have a family business and this is simple a case of weathering an economic storm, it may be they have Personal Guarantees against loans and don't wish to lose their house too or it may be, like me, that we are building something that will realise real value in the future but at the moment it's not able to support a significant salary.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

..... Or alternatively, while Cameron is looking to rush through something which would actually just benefit his party in perpetuity, Miliband is looking to deal with the issue properly, actually consulting people and taking all the issues in to account.

Ps - having now read the article, I thought the Telegraph was better than that. It has only reported half the story.

4 out of 5 English Voters (of all Parties) believe that only English MPs should vote on English only matters in Parliament.

Are you one of the 20% that disagrees?

With more power going to a devolved Parliament at Hollyrood (and rightly so) surely it's only right that The West Lothian Question was finally put to bed?

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

4 out of 5 English Voters (of all Parties) believe that only English MPs should vote on English only matters in Parliament.

Are you one of the 20% that disagrees?

With more power going to a devolved Parliament at Hollyrood (and rightly so) surely it's only right that The West Lothian Question was finally put to bed?

No, I am not saying I am one of those who disagrees..........

But Cameron seems to be trying to rush something through, with Gove instrumental in pushing it from what I can see, when everyone else (not just Miliband) seems to want to take more time over it and do it properly.

Grant Shapps has said that this is "kicking it in to the long grass", but I think he is wrong. I would rather take a year to do things properly than 6 months to make a right cock-up of it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What about if "smarter business" means employing less staff. Is that ok? What about if "smarter business" means putting lots of their staff on zero hour contracts. Is that ok?

If you need 10 people to run your business, and the staff overhead has gone up, i'm suggesting to maintain your business you will need to look to other areas to make the saving. Adapt and survive. If you employ less staff then you cannot run the business in this example.

That said, advances in efficiency and/or new technology might mean you can make do with less people. Alternatively it might mean you can grow the business. This is a slightly different argument to one I am discussining though.

FYI I get tired of the usual trite and unimaginative argument that if wages go up then it either means people get laid off or the cost is passed onto the customer. It does not.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Whilst I thank you for pointing out my lack of business knowledge, obvious lack of experience and limited creative ability, I too would point out that some businesses are so smart they've already done a fair bit to navigate one of the worst economic downturns know to this country. Manufacturing businesses in the country are struggling against cheaper, less credible products and a consumer that just want "cheap", until it all comes crashing down, i.e. food scares, poor quality etc. During this time employers are focussed on maintaining jobs for people, training staff and reinvesting in their business. These types of businesses offer little reward for their owners but they continue on in the hope that one day a visionary, such as yourself, can show them the error of their ways.

Meanwhile, higher wages normally mean increased prices, as labour tends to be a large part of the cost of hand-made manufactured goods, but what the **** would I know?

No need to get catty. The country simply cannot continue to expect the lowest paid to carry the burden and prop up companies for **** all in return. You want to employ someone, pay them a decent living wage. It's not their fault the country has got itself into this pickle. Other countries manage it, I'm sure the UK can.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's a very simplistic view. Some people have other incentives / needs for keeping a business running, they may have a family business and this is simple a case of weathering an economic storm, it may be they have Personal Guarantees against loans and don't wish to lose their house too or it may be, like me, that we are building something that will realise real value in the future but at the moment it's not able to support a significant salary.

I agree. But do not expect your staff to be in on this. Pay them properly.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

No need to get catty. The country simply cannot continue to expect the lowest paid to carry the burden and prop up companies for **** all in return. You want to employ someone, pay them a decent living wage. It's not their fault the country has got itself into this pickle. Other countries manage it, I'm sure the UK can.

Excellent, thank you, I think that's addressed my points.

 

[Bold Seagull]

4 out of 5 English Voters (of all Parties) believe that only English MPs should vote on English only matters in Parliament.

Are you one of the 20% that disagrees?

What? Where is this poll from? It was 99% on another thread, only 80% according to you. The subject has only come up in the last few months and there is a consensus on something no one has been properly asked about or engaged with on yet. Blimey.

I'm going to say 4 out of 7 voters want all UK mp's to have the same voting rights.

Mainly because everyone appears to be able to quote stats out of thin air, so no reason I can't.

 

[Ernest]

Decent people are fed up with employers paying slave wages on slave contracts whilst making nice big profits themselves, they're fed up of being taxed to the bone through tax, NI & VAT whilst idiots like Gary Barlow dodge paying their fair share, they're fed up with being taxed for having a spare bedroom with no smaller properties to move to whilst the rich are not taxed for having 2 or 3 mansions, they're fed up with the way disabled people are being demonised and put through humiliating assessments to try and not pay the money they're entitled to, they're fed up with the bankers still being allowed obscene bonus payments without paying a penny back that their mismanagement cost the country and now they're fed up with the likes of Goves and Shapps , 2 idiots who wouldn't know the truth if it came up and hit them in the face trying to rush through a massive constitutional change to benefit themselves and their rich supporters.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Milliband doesn't have a clue how normal people live. More soundbites trying to win back voters they pissed people off because of things like migration. I won't be voting for them and I don't honestly know who else is. This is just typical Labour, more Bullshite. Supply people with proper jobs, for example manufacturing. I forgot you sold it all out to other countries.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ic-sector-monitor-employees-social-background

 

[gordonchas]

Decent people.... they're fed up of being taxed to the bone through tax, NI & VAT

You (maybe inadvertently) hit on an important point. It's wonderful of Milliband to promise other people's money to the low paid, but he should then be asked to explain why, if it's his party's policy to give the low paid a "living wage" the Labour Party insist on income tax and NI thresholds that deprive those people of that same living wage?

Someone on minimum wage now, and working a full working week, would actually be on the "living wage" if it were not for the dead hand of government taxing it away from them.

As for the rest, nobody owes anyone a living. A job is worth what it's worth, and unless there are productivity increases in line with the increased pay then that will mean job losses for certain.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Decent people are fed up with employers paying slave wages on slave contracts whilst making nice big profits themselves, they're fed up of being taxed to the bone through tax, NI & VAT whilst idiots like Gary Barlow dodge paying their fair share, they're fed up with being taxed for having a spare bedroom with no smaller properties to move to whilst the rich are not taxed for having 2 or 3 mansions, they're fed up with the way disabled people are being demonised and put through humiliating assessments to try and not pay the money they're entitled to, they're fed up with the bankers still being allowed obscene bonus payments without paying a penny back that their mismanagement cost the country and now they're fed up with the likes of Goves and Shapps , 2 idiots who wouldn't know the truth if it came up and hit them in the face trying to rush through a massive constitutional change to benefit themselves and their rich supporters.

This.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You (maybe inadvertently) hit on an important point. It's wonderful of Milliband to promise other people's money to the low paid, but he should then be asked to explain why, if it's his party's policy to give the low paid a "living wage" the Labour Party insist on income tax and NI thresholds that deprive those people of that same living wage?

Someone on minimum wage now, and working a full working week, would actually be on the "living wage" if it were not for the dead hand of government taxing it away from them.

As for the rest, nobody owes anyone a living. A job is worth what it's worth, and unless there are productivity increases in line with the increased pay then that will mean job losses for certain.

I'm sure tax thresholds will also be announced in due course. The minimum wage is just one of the many tools needed to fix the current low wave issue.

 

[gordonchas]

I'm sure tax thresholds will also be announced in due course. The minimum wage is just one of the many tools needed to fix the current low wave issue.

They didn't do anything about it in the 13 years they had between 1997 and 2010, and said nothing about it in the four years since. Your faith is as touching as it is naive, and you might want to solve a low wage issue, what about the unemployment issue that will inevitably result, most of which will fall (again) on the young?